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2019 Draft Discussion


jleisher

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42 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Yeah, the guy is clearly a genius.  He has the Niners logo by the Giants pick.  He has Quinnan Williams going before Ed Oliver, has the Bengals taking a tight end 21st overall when they have Kroft/Eiffert/Uzomah, calls Cobb a YAC specialist in need of replacing (LOL), has us drafting a 5'10, 170 pound receiver in the first round.

His draft consists of:

2 ILB
6 WR
2 IOL

In the first round. 

He's clearly an idiot. 

If we used a first round pick on a receiver who weighs 170 pounds, I would literally quit watching football. 

Agreed on everything but Williams vs Oliver. Combine is going to be huge for Oliver.

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47 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Yeah, the guy is clearly a genius.  He has the Niners logo by the Giants pick.  He has Quinnan Williams going before Ed Oliver, has the Bengals taking a tight end 21st overall when they have Kroft/Eiffert/Uzomah, calls Cobb a YAC specialist in need of replacing (LOL), has us drafting a 5'10, 170 pound receiver in the first round.

His draft consists of:

2 ILB
6 WR
2 IOL

In the first round. 

He's clearly an idiot. 

If we used a first round pick on a receiver who weighs 170 pounds, I would literally quit watching football. 

Not that I agree with it, but in the 2018 draft, we had:

  • 4 ILB (average of 2.6 over last 5 drafts)
  • 2 WR (average of 4)
  • 3 IOL (average of 1.6)

The WR number is a little high, but we did see 5 and 6 go in 2013 and 2014 respectively. I don't think he is an idiot because mock's are trying to be accurate, not saying who are the best/most valuable 32 players in the draft. 

Also, Quinnen Williams is a stud, and while I would still take Oliver over him at this point, Quinnen is not far behind. However having them go 8 and 10 is pretty damn ridiculous.

All three of Cincy's TEs are UFAs. Wouldn't find it shocking for them to take a tight end, they did it with Eifert AND Gresham, they clearly value the position. 

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Yeah, but the 2018 draft was full of idiot teams. 

Bengals and Lions took IOL back-to-back (that weren't even the best ones). 
Titans, Bears, Bills, Cowboys all took ILB.  They're idiot teams who frequently draft WR/TE/IOL in round one. 

The Bears and Cowboys don't have a first round pick this year, so that's two idiot teams that won't have a chance to inflate the idiocy. 

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42 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Yeah, but the 2018 draft was full of idiot teams. 

Bengals and Lions took IOL back-to-back (that weren't even the best ones). 
Titans, Bears, Bills, Cowboys all took ILB.  They're idiot teams who frequently draft WR/TE/IOL in round one. 

The Bears and Cowboys don't have a first round pick this year, so that's two idiot teams that won't have a chance to inflate the idiocy. 

But Gruden has all of those picks and he's definitely capable of being an idiot and "trying to build a strong base of players around his young QB" by picking out a new target and a guy to improve the protection [Fart noises]

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15 hours ago, squire12 said:

I will wait for you to show us the school that consistently produces players that outperform their draft positions at a relatively high volume of players.

I think you're missing what I'm saying.  It seems year-after-year we talk about how good these 'Bama players are, and they tend to get overdrafted.  I mean, does anyone truly believe that Da'Ron Payne was higher than say Derwin James or Jaire Alexander?  Was Rashaan Evans better than Mikes Hughes or Isaiah Wynn?  I'm not saying ignore them all together.  I just tend to think they tend to go higher than they should.

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1 hour ago, Outpost31 said:

Yeah, but the 2018 draft was full of idiot teams. 

Bengals and Lions took IOL back-to-back (that weren't even the best ones). 
Titans, Bears, Bills, Cowboys all took ILB.  They're idiot teams who frequently draft WR/TE/IOL in round one. 

The Bears and Cowboys don't have a first round pick this year, so that's two idiot teams that won't have a chance to inflate the idiocy. 

Maybe so.  But the Bengals have historically been a team whose drafted skill position in the first round.  Going back to 2010, 7 of their last 9 first round picks were skill position players.  The only two were Billy Price last year and Cedric Ogbuehi in 2015.  Likewise, since 2010 the Lions have selected 7 lineman with their first round selection out of a possible 9 picks.  The only two that weren't lineman were Jarrad Davis in 2017 and Eric Ebron in 2014.  That's an organizational direction to select OL in Detroit.

Teams are going to take non-premium position.  Not every team subscribes to positional value, and some value certain positions more than others.

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Walterfootball's current mock has us going:

14. Zach Allen DE
30. Jachai Polite EDGE
2nd. Brian Burns EDGE
3rd. Derwin Gray OT/OG

Don't know much about Allen but I'm fine with that position, but I like Polite and Burns a lot so far, and Gray is a college LT. tbh great job and I don't really like walt that much

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3 minutes ago, JBURGE said:

Walterfootball's current mock has us going:

14. Zach Allen DE
30. Jachai Polite EDGE
2nd. Brian Burns EDGE
3rd. Derwin Gray OT/OG

Don't know much about Allen but I'm fine with that position, but I like Polite and Burns a lot so far, and Gray is a college LT. tbh great job and I don't really like walt that much

those player valuations are pretty **** imo. but i'd be a happy boy. burns is a leader. 

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1 hour ago, JBURGE said:

Walterfootball's current mock has us going:

14. Zach Allen DE
30. Jachai Polite EDGE
2nd. Brian Burns EDGE
3rd. Derwin Gray OT/OG

Don't know much about Allen but I'm fine with that position, but I like Polite and Burns a lot so far, and Gray is a college LT. tbh great job and I don't really like walt that much

For me Allen + Polite + Burns is a bit too much pass rush emphasis, and good offensive tackles go a bit earlier, usually (Bakhtiari level prospects in the 4th, are once in a Blue Moon). How about choosing from these prospects for a slightly more balanced draft

1a) DL                 Raekwon Davis (Alabama), or Dre'mont Jones (Ohio St.),  or Christian Wilkins (Clemson). DL with the first pick, as it is the strength of the draft.
1b) OT                 Trey Adams (Washington), or Greg Little (Ole Miss), or Dalton Risner (K.State). Some of the better OTs
2) Pass Rush     Montez Sweat (Miss St.), or Terrell Lewis (Alabama), or Chase Winovich (Michigan), or Austin Bryant (Clemson) Best value might not be going Edge with pick 1a).
3)    FS                  Jordan Fuller (Ohio St.), or Jaquan Johnson (Miami Fla.), or Marvell Tell III (USC) Unless Josh Jones makes  sudden jump, this would be combined with picking up a decent veteran safety and (hopefully) another veteran TE, when Lewis and Kendricks are probably gone.

After these, something like a guard, RB, TE project with speed, return specialist, maybe even a kicker taken late.

Edited by OneTwoSixFive
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1 hour ago, Cheesehawk said:

@Outpost31 given your stance on round 1 TEs, what would be the earliest you would be okay with taking a top TE prospect? Fants mediocre production this year with more attention towards Hockenson may lead to him dropping towards the bottom of the 2nd. Would you pull the trigger?

I have no problem with literally any position at any point in the second round.  If they're the best value, take them.  

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41 minutes ago, Gopackgonerd said:

Punter, LS, Kicker ;)

I said if the value was there.  So I feel that long snapper could also play center or guard, sure.  If that punter had pinned opponents inside the five yard line at like 70%, sure, and if that kicker was 20/20 on field goals over 50 yards, sure.  No problems.

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3 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

I said if the value was there.  So I feel that long snapper could also play center or guard, sure.  If that punter had pinned opponents inside the five yard line at like 70%, sure, and if that kicker was 20/20 on field goals over 50 yards, sure.  No problems.

And people freaked out for getting a punter in the 5th :ph34r:

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