2019 Draft Discussion

[VonKarman]

1 hour ago, Outpost31 said:

I've been on a wrong streak lately, so we are DEFINITELY drafting a TE/IOL/WR or ILB 12th overall. 

That reverse jynx **** ain't gonna work.

[AlexGreen#20]

1 hour ago, incognito_man said:

Who do you view as the best penetrating IDL in this class not named Quinnen? Oliver and Tillery?

Not sure I'd qualify Tillery as a penetrating IDL

[Cheech]

5 hours ago, packfanfb said:

Let's say we draft Oliver at 12. Do the Packers then cut Daniels or let him play out his last year? Oliver is basically the same type of player and you save about $8.3m now by cutting Daniels. If you draft Oliver, at the very least you're more than likely not resigning Daniels after this year. 

Im not advocating for the move one way or the other, but it'll be an interesting decision if Oliver is the pick.

I think the Eagles had it right a few years ago.  You get multiple guys on the front 7 that can play, and then chase the QB all day.  It is only going to help Daniels if Oliver comes in and plays 4 or 5 series.  Daniels has played way too many snaps over the last 3 years because he's had to.  

If Oliver is the best player available at 12, take him.  I think he's versatile/athletic enough to move all over the DL.  Pettine played a lot more with 3 DL last year than Capers did over his last few seasons.  I think you're going to get some fun combinations with Smith, Daniels, Clark, Lowry, Adams and Lancaster.  Throw in another guy that can move around like Oliver or Gary, and that front 7 becomes really dynamic.  

[Leader]

Daniel Jeremiah's top 32 prospects.

1. Nick Bosa, Edge
2. Quinnen Williams, DT
3. Josh Allen, Edge
4. Christian Wilkins, DT
5. T.J. Hockenson, TE
6. Ed Oliver, DT
7. Josh Jacobs, RB
8. Devin White, LB
9. Rashan Gary, Edge
10. Montez Sweat, Edge
11. Andre Dillard, OT
12. Kyler Murray, QB
13. Jawaan Taylor, OT
14. Devin Bush, LB
15. Noah Fant, TE
16. Marquise Brown, WR
17. D.K. Metcalf, WR
18. Jeffery Simmons, DT
19. Jonah Williams, OG
20. Dwayne Haskins, QB
21. Clelin Ferrell, Edge
22. Garrett Bradbury, C
23. Drew Lock, QB
24. Brian Burns, Edge
25. Johnathan Abram, S
26. Byron Murphy, CB
27. Irv Smith Jr., TE
28. Rock Ya-Sin, CB
29. Cody Ford, OT
30. Deandre Baker, CB
31. Greedy Williams, CB
32. Dexter Lawrence, DT

Positional:

12. Kyler Murray, QB
20. Dwayne Haskins, QB
23. Drew Lock, QB

1. Nick Bosa, Edge
3. Josh Allen, Edge
9. Rashan Gary, Edge
10. Montez Sweat, Edge
21. Clelin Ferrell, Edge
24. Brian Burns, Edge

2. Quinnen Williams, DT
4. Christian Wilkins, DT
6. Ed Oliver, DT
18. Jeffery Simmons, DT
32. Dexter Lawrence, DT

5. T.J. Hockenson, TE
15. Noah Fant, TE
16. Marquise Brown, WR
17. D.K. Metcalf, WR
27. Irv Smith Jr., TE

7. Josh Jacobs, RB

11. Andre Dillard, OT
13. Jawaan Taylor, OT
19. Jonah Williams, OG
22. Garrett Bradbury, C
29. Cody Ford, OT

8. Devin White, LB
14. Devin Bush, LB

25. Johnathan Abram, S
26. Byron Murphy, CB
28. Rock Ya-Sin, CB
30. Deandre Baker, CB
31. Greedy Williams, CB

[PossibleCabbage]

It's really surprising to me Jeremiah is so high on Jacobs and Wilkins (and Hockenson, but I sort of get it).

[incognito_man]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Not sure I'd qualify Tillery as a penetrating IDL

Who would you consider as good fits at IDL at either 12 or 30 this year?

Would you send picks 12 and 30 (and maybe 108) to the NYJ at 3 to take Williams? How does a front of Smith, Williams, Clark, Smith look?

Or maybe picks 12, 30 and Mike Daniels to NYJ?

Edited March 16, 2019 by incognito_man

[Leader]

7 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said:

It's really surprising to me Jeremiah is so high on Jacobs and Wilkins (and Hockenson, but I sort of get it).

Hockenson is a fun player to watch. In the passing game, he fights through press coverage and will stair-step defenders (fights through pass coverage and understands how to attack the leverage of defenders) down the field, helping to create some separation on crossers and deep-over routes. He tracks the ball naturally, and his high-point skills are on display in the red zone. He is very physical after the catch and possesses adequate speed. Hockenson is at his best in the run game. He rag-dolls defensive ends and linebackers. He had multiple pancake blocks in every game I studied. Overall, Hockenson is one of the best blocking tight ends I've ever evaluated, and he is dependable in the passing game. He's a Day 1 impact player at the next level.

Wilkins has solid size (6-foot-3, 315 pounds) for the position, and he's been a disruptive presence along the Clemson line throughout his career. Against the pass, he has quick feet and hands, which allow him to routinely win early in the down. He's at his best when slanting and working through the edges of blockers. He isn't a powerful bull rusher. Against the run, he is much better on the back side. He relies on quickness to slip blocks and does a good job of avoiding cut blocks. On the front side, he'll occasionally get too high -- and consequently, get turned and dumped. Overall, Wilkins has upside as a pass rusher and penetrator, but you'll have to live with some deficiencies at the point of attack.

Jacobs is one of my favorite players to study in this draft class. He has a thick, compact build, and I love his combination of power, elusiveness and versatility. In the run game, he possesses excellent vision, burst and wiggle. His change-of-direction quickness is off the charts. He runs low to the ground and powers through tacklers in every game I studied. Jacobs has the speed to get to the perimeter -- he's a weapon when lined up as a QB in the Wildcat and when he's used on fly sweeps from the slot. In the passing game, Jacobs runs crisp routes and possesses natural hands; he's a make-you-miss specialist in space. He does need to improve in pass protection. He must come to balance as a blocker and avoid lunging at blitzers. Overall, Jacobs is a special talent, and his light workload at Alabama (251 carries in three seasons) should be viewed as a positive, not a negative.

[FinneasGage]

i've been watching greedy, deandre baker & byron murphy for the past like 90 minutes and don't like any of them in the first round tbh 

byron is the best of the bunch tho i guess. of those 3 i mean

edit: annnnnd just saw his wingspan, jesus christ. nevermind. i don't like any of them. 

Edited March 16, 2019 by FinneasGage

[Leader]

1 minute ago, FinneasGage said:

i've been watching greedy, deandre baker & byron murphy for the past like 90 minutes and don't like any of them in the first round tbh 

Well according to Jeremiah's talent evaluations - each is rated at the tail end of the first and would only be a "value" pick for us at 30.
I find the EDGE data interesting. Burns - who many have slotted to us at 12 - is ranked the 24th best talent (out of the top 32) and the sixth best EDGE - which would be consistent with Mock Draft data which has all the top EDGE guys going in the top 10 and it becoming a need vs value determination for us on Burns versus Ferrell - who's ranked higher than Burns all the way around.

So we going position at 12 (?) or value? Cause these guys:

2. Quinnen Williams, DT
4. Christian Wilkins, DT
6. Ed Oliver, DT
8. Devin White, LB
14. Devin Bush, LB
5. T.J. Hockenson, TE
15. Noah Fant, TE
11. Andre Dillard, OT
13. Jawaan Taylor, OT

All would represent better "talent" value than Burns.

It's ALL subjective as hell - but its interesting to make the comparisons.

[ChaRisMa]

8 minutes ago, FinneasGage said:

i've been watching greedy, deandre baker & byron murphy for the past like 90 minutes and don't like any of them in the first round tbh 

byron is the best of the bunch tho i guess. of those 3 i mean

edit: annnnnd just saw his wingspan, jesus christ. nevermind. i don't like any of them. 

Greedy a Mid 1. Murphy a late 1. Baker a late 1. 

Im going to re examine Greedy as a FS. The freaking ball skills are there.

[FinneasGage]

1 minute ago, Leader said:

Well according to Jeremiah's talent evaluations

i'd be more interested in your talent evaluations than daniel jeremiah's, my friend 

2 minutes ago, Leader said:

All would represent better "talent" value than Burns.

this is why daniel jeremiah can not be trusted 

[PossibleCabbage]

Wilkins, White, Bush, Hockenson, and Fant are guys I am passing on at 12; like if those are BPA and there's no one I like just below that, I'm trading out.  Q. Williams, Oliver, Dillard, and Jawaan are guys I'd take though.  Of that first group I'd be most conflicted on passing on White, but he's a a stack LB.

Edited March 16, 2019 by PossibleCabbage

[Leader]

1 minute ago, FinneasGage said:

i'd be more interested in your talent evaluations than daniel jeremiah's, my friend

Dont be so sure

He's a name. He's a data source. He's an opinion. Nothing more - but quantifying and collating the data is interesting.

[HighCalebR]

1 hour ago, FinneasGage said:

i've been watching greedy, deandre baker & byron murphy for the past like 90 minutes and don't like any of them in the first round tbh 

byron is the best of the bunch tho i guess. of those 3 i mean

edit: annnnnd just saw his wingspan, jesus christ. nevermind. i don't like any of them. 

Check Rock. Guy is a fun one at 30. Havent been keeping up with the #'s, the 3cone is a disappointment. Thought it would be closer to 7 than that.

Edited March 16, 2019 by HighCalebR

[FinneasGage]

Just now, ChaRisMa said:

Greedy a Mid 1. Murphy a late 1. Baker a late 1. 

Im going to re examine Greedy as a FS. The freaking ball skills are there.

greedy moves awkwardly and looked awful in movement drills at combine, i'm sure you're already aware of that. then blames cramping. plays soft. i don't know, just can't get excited about him. but agree, just about putting him in position to get the ball. maybe safety is the move. but i doubt a team does that early on.

baker i was buying in to until i saw him move at the combine too. i know "personality" reports are all bogus and manufactured almost every time, but guys on twitter that i believe wouldn't just throw **** around were saying they heard some rough stuff too. i'd rather just not. 

byron i like a lot. just the concern over deep speed and his little arms are worrisome. he moves well. 

i'd pass on them, don't see a reason to snag any, there will be better players at 30 and 44 i reckon. 

just started watching rock ya-sin a few minutes ago, what you think about him? which cornerback am i going to like?