2019 Draft Discussion

[JBURGE]

Just now, FinneasGage said:

greedy moves awkwardly and looked awful in movement drills at combine, i'm sure you're already aware of that. then blames cramping. plays soft. i don't know, just can't get excited about him. but agree, just about putting him in position to get the ball. maybe safety is the move. but i doubt a team does that early on.

baker i was buying in to until i saw him move at the combine too. i know "personality" reports are all bogus and manufactured almost every time, but guys on twitter that i believe wouldn't just throw **** around were saying they heard some rough stuff too. i'd rather just not. 

byron i like a lot. just the concern over deep speed and his little arms are worrisome. he moves well. 

i'd pass on them, don't see a reason to snag any, there will be better players at 30 and 44 i reckon. 

just started watching rock ya-sin a few minutes ago, what you think about him? which cornerback am i going to like? 

Byron is the only one of the three that I like tbh

[FinneasGage]

2 minutes ago, HighCalebR said:

Check Rock. Guy is a fun one at 30.

well hot damn, i'm in the middle of his buffalo game right now. 

[KManX89]

14 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said:

Wilkins, White, Bush, Hockenson, and Fant are guys I am passing on at 12; like if those are BPA and there's no one I like just below that, I'm trading out.  Q. Williams, Oliver, Dillard, and Jawaan are guys I'd take though.  Of that first group I'd be most conflicted on passing on White, but he's a a stack LB.

You wouldn't take a guy who has Ray Lewis/Patrick Willis comparisons at 12 and HOPE Oren Burks pans out? 

Edited March 16, 2019 by KManX89

[PossibleCabbage]

2 minutes ago, KManX89 said:

You wouldn't take a guy who has Ray Lewis/Patrick Willis comparisons at 12 and HOPE Oren Burks pans out? 

I mean, I'm also not taking a punter who has Ray Guy comparisons at 12 if such a thing existed.  Positional value matters.  ILB is like the 8th most valuable guy on the defense.

Edited March 16, 2019 by PossibleCabbage

[FinneasGage]

3 minutes ago, KManX89 said:

You wouldn't take a guy who has Ray Rice/Patrick Willis comparisons at 12 and HOPE Oren Burks pans out? 

every top prospect has HOF comparisons you could make if you wanted to 

[HighCalebR]

1 hour ago, FinneasGage said:

well hot damn, i'm in the middle of his buffalo game right now. 

The UCF game is good too. You can tell he's not the most gifted athlete but he knows how to play corner.  We're lucky we got Jaire last year, he'd be CB1 for sure this year. Corner is my favorite position so I'm pretty bummed this years lot is so brutal. Hopefully someone pops up a little later I can latch onto.

[Leader]

Whatever we do - IF - we draft a CB with FS talent - we damn well better start him at FS!
Been there....rode that pony already.

[incognito_man]

8 minutes ago, KManX89 said:

You wouldn't take a guy who has Ray Lewis/Patrick Willis comparisons at 12 and HOPE Oren Burks pans out? 

I read several places that White's mental game was lacking, that his instincts aren't elite.

No way in hell I'm taking an ILB with anything less than elite instincts AND (at least) very, very good athleticism that high in the draft.

But the instincts are an absolute must-have.

[Leader]

4 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

I read several places that White's mental game was lacking, that his instincts aren't elite.

No way in hell I'm taking an ILB with anything less than elite instincts AND (at least) very, very good athleticism that high in the draft.

But the instincts are an absolute must-have.

Again - taken from Jeremiah's evals:

White has a thick, sturdy frame and possesses prototypical explosiveness and playmaking skills. Against the pass, he has the speed and agility to cover TEs down the field, and he closes space in a hurry when he's in zone coverage. He has timing and burst as a blitzer. He wins the majority of his one-on-ones versus running backs in pass protection. Against the run, White brings sideline-to-sideline range, but he will get stuck on blocks once engaged. He has good (but not great) instincts to key/read. However, even when he's a half count late, he makes up for it with his play speed. He is an outstanding, chest-up tackler. Overall, White has what teams are looking for at the position: The ability to run, cover and blitz.

The Draft Network's eval:

Coverage - Glides through space and has the burst to rapidly work into throwing lanes if he can read the quarterback and respond quickly enough. Has the movement skills to carry running backs and tight ends into space. Doesn't feature a natural feel for coverage spacing or anticipate routes effectively. Physical ability is present but the mental side needs work.

Tackling - Urgent and aggressive pursuer of the football but it can work against him. Has issues coming to balance and squaring up the ball carrier. Is guilty of going for a big hit and failing to wrap up. Hitting power is outstanding but he isn't square or under control enough. Peaks are really exciting but he must become more consistent.

Blocks - Often plays through a straw and gets hung up in traffic. Has impressive flashes of scraping over the top/undercutting blocks but can also be swallowed up. Needs to be more consistently aggressive with his hands when taking on blocks to stack and shed. Slow processing skills exacerbate his deficiencies.

Physicality - Aggressive player who isn't afraid to lay the wood. Can be a violent finisher and pursues the football with bad intentions. Is only only over-matched when he fails to be aware of pending contact which unfortunately happens too often.

Motor - Is a high-urgency football player that will stick his face in a fan and like it. Is a tone-setting presence on the second level. Works hard in pursuit and chases plays down from distance regularly. Developing more technique for defeating blocks will help him take advantage of his hot motor. Not immune to an occasional lackadaisical rep.

Processing - Made strides in 2018 compared to 2017 but he is still a work in progress. Tape features a mixed bag of slow reads, incorrect reads and some confident/correct reads. Route anticipation and zone awareness need improvement. Easily manipulated by play fakes and keeps the door open for cut back opportunities.

Range - Can make plays from sideline to sideline. Explosive mover with a spring in his step. Fluid with excellent burst that can fill windows and cover ground in a hurry. Features the ideal physical skill set to counter today's space and pace NFL offenses.

Flexibility - Changes directions and turns corners with ease. Extremely loose in his hips and ankles. Is often used as a blitzer and easily works to the edges of blocks and corners. Fluid with his transitions and glides through space when sinking in coverage. Lateral mobility is impressive.

Versatility - Built like a 4-3 MIKE linebacker but doesn't have the processing skills or consistency playing downhill to be reliable at this point in his development. His best course to seeing the field early in his career comes as a pursuit-style WILL in a 4-3. Has all the physical ability needed to be an ever down playmaker in the NFL.

BEST TRAIT - Range

WORST TRAIT - Processing

RED FLAGS - None

White has all the physical attributes to be a dynamic playmaker at the next level. His burst, play strength, size and aggressive mentality are exciting traits but he does need more work on the mental side of the game to make an impact. While strides were made when comparing his 2017 film to 2018, there are still too many processing errors that take him out of plays. In addition, White is inconsistent sifting through traffic and with his technique for taking on blocks. If he can become a better processor with better spatial awareness, White can be an every down star in the NFL.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Leader

[incognito_man]

5 minutes ago, Leader said:

Again - taken from Jeremiah's evals:

White has a thick, sturdy frame and possesses prototypical explosiveness and playmaking skills. Against the pass, he has the speed and agility to cover TEs down the field, and he closes space in a hurry when he's in zone coverage. He has timing and burst as a blitzer. He wins the majority of his one-on-ones versus running backs in pass protection. Against the run, White brings sideline-to-sideline range, but he will get stuck on blocks once engaged. He has good (but not great) instincts to key/read. However, even when he's a half count late, he makes up for it with his play speed. He is an outstanding, chest-up tackler. Overall, White has what teams are looking for at the position: The ability to run, cover and blitz.

Processing - Made strides in 2018 compared to 2017 but he is still a work in progress. Tape features a mixed bag of slow reads, incorrect reads and some confident/correct reads. Route anticipation and zone awareness need improvement. Easily manipulated by play fakes and keeps the door open for cut back opportunities.

Football Intelligence –Discipline and confidence in reads grew in 2018 as a junior. Much more confident to step with anticipation and use his lateral mobility to get over top of runs and get square on his challenges. Lapses or delay in reaction is still present but much less frequent.

Key & Diagnose - Wish he was more consistent in this area, but improved significantly from a year ago. Plays forward on the balls of his feet, showing typically good vision to find and track the football while also processing his keys. Explosive triggers forward when his windows open up front. Does an excellent job of IDing pullers and playing them with proper pace to the playside.

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/devin-white

[PossibleCabbage]

I mean the central problem with "big draft" is that their rankings are not scheme specific.  Assuredly there exist defensive schemes that place a high value on playmaking stack LBs- but we don't have one of those.  A hypothetical "ILBs make plays here" team is going to place a much higher value on a guy like White or Bush than the Packers would.

I mean, imagine two CBs- one is good in man and poor in zone, and one is good in zone and poor in man but are in other areas equal.  It would be madness to assume that there was a consensus order to the ranking of those guys across all 32 teams.  Some teams want to run more zone/less man or vice versa.

[Leader]

1 minute ago, incognito_man said:

Processing - Made strides in 2018 compared to 2017 but he is still a work in progress. Tape features a mixed bag of slow reads, incorrect reads and some confident/correct reads. Route anticipation and zone awareness need improvement. Easily manipulated by play fakes and keeps the door open for cut back opportunities.

Football Intelligence –Discipline and confidence in reads grew in 2018 as a junior. Much more confident to step with anticipation and use his lateral mobility to get over top of runs and get square on his challenges. Lapses or delay in reaction is still present but much less frequent.

Key & Diagnose - Wish he was more consistent in this area, but improved significantly from a year ago. Plays forward on the balls of his feet, showing typically good vision to find and track the football while also processing his keys. Explosive triggers forward when his windows open up front. Does an excellent job of IDing pullers and playing them with proper pace to the playside.

Ha! I'd never noted there were multiple opinions / breakdowns on these guys. Wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much information!
Bring on the **** draft!
 

[Fox_NFLs_GG]

What are the odds that the Packers Draft a LB with the last name of Smith?

[PossibleCabbage]

So here's a question- how do you account for "played on good/bad defense" for these guys?  Both of the Devins happened to play on a really stacked defense at a large number of positions, and this hypothetically covers up a lot of deficiencies- was Winovich good because of Gary and Bush or some other permutation of those names?

Like rather than a Devin in the top 15, one could hypothetically take Blake Cashman on day 2-3.  Here's a guy who played on a bad defense, but tested like an elite athlete and who showed great instincts.

[PossibleCabbage]

11 minutes ago, Fox_NFLs_GG said:

What are the odds that the Packers Draft a LB with the last name of Smith?

I think there's just one guy- Sutton Smith from Northern Illinois who played Edge in college but who projects inside in the NFL.  Day 3 guy, could be a target.  Runs well, high motor guy, undersized but a good tackler.

Edited March 16, 2019 by PossibleCabbage