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2019 Draft Discussion


jleisher

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2 hours ago, rcon14 said:

I kind of understand what you're saying. He appears to be a highly coordinated guy, especially for his size, but the combine does test pretty much every aspect of athleticism. 40 looks at speed, the jumps measure explosiveness, and the 3C and shuttle both test agility, burst, and COD skills. I guess I'm curious what you think the NFL isn't capturing currently in the combine regarding athleticism that you'd like to see added in.

Well the drills do a great job of showing how good a player is at functional, football movement. Unfortunately you can't put a number on those things. Looking at him, though, do you feel like he's merely 'coordinated'? You don't believe he's a good athlete?

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5 minutes ago, deathstar said:

Well the drills do a great job of showing how good a player is at functional, football movement. Unfortunately you can't put a number on those things. Looking at him, though, do you feel like he's merely 'coordinated'? You don't believe he's a good athlete?

I mean, I see the numbers telling me he's not a great athlete. He's also a huge dude. If he dropped down to like 310-315 he'd probably be more nimble, but there's nothing in his athletic profile that screams that he'd be a good fit for a ZBS.

And I want to note, I like Ford. I think he'll be a good OL in this league for a long time. I also think it should be for a power/gap team and not a ZBS team, especially one that will utilize outside zone A LOT.

Edited by rcon14
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10 minutes ago, rcon14 said:

I mean, I see the numbers telling me he's not a great athlete. He's also a huge dude. If he dropped down to like 310-315 he'd probably be more nimble, but there's nothing in his athletic profile that screams that he'd be a good fit for a ZBS.

And I want to note, I like Ford. I think he'll be a good OL in this league for a long time. I also think it should be for a power/gap team and not a ZBS team, especially one that will utilize outside zone A LOT.

Because according to the tests at the combine he shouldn't be able to move laterally well enough to block? There's a ton of tape out there of him playing football that says the opposite.

In my opinion there's a lot of talk about zone blocking and power scheme with teams and it's almost to the same level as 3-4/4-3. Every team runs both with some leaning more towards one than the other. Case in point: Oklahoma, who mixes it up a lot. Why would he suddenly not be able to execute zone blocking in the NFL when he's been doing it at Oklahoma?

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Just now, deathstar said:

Because according to the tests at the combine he shouldn't be able to move laterally well enough to block? There's a ton of tape out there of him playing football that says the opposite.

In my opinion there's a lot of talk about zone blocking and power scheme with teams and it's almost to the same level as 3-4/4-3. Every team runs both with some leaning more towards one than the other. Case in point: Oklahoma, who mixes it up a lot. Why would he suddenly not be able to execute zone blocking in the NFL when he's been doing it at Oklahoma?

NFL athletes >>>>>>>> Big 12 athletes

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Just now, deathstar said:

Ok. I guess I don't understand what exactly you don't think he'd be good at doing in a zone blocking scheme.

Moving laterally. On outside zone your OL has to cover significant ground and there's no indication from his athletic testing that he'll have the ability to do so.

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4 hours ago, rcon14 said:

Moving laterally. On outside zone your OL has to cover significant ground and there's no indication from his athletic testing that he'll have the ability to do so.

Got it. In my opinion having seen him move in games. I believe he can cover plenty of ground. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Edited by deathstar
I became illiterate for a minute
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21 hours ago, cannondale said:

Yes. I have 36/37 arms so the bench was, needless to say, not my favorite stop.  I have a 36" inseam, so the leg press was also not my favorite stop.

LIS it's all about projecting to the next level. I disagree totally about the need for arm length. He's gonna need it to be the blocker everyone thinks he might be, and to create separation and a catch radius when ILB's are running step for step at the next level. I read somewhere that Iowa ran 2 TE 40% of the time. I think he was the beneficiary of having Fant and his reputation on the field with him. Obviously I'm not a huge fan

The difference between Hocks arms (17th percentile) and 64th (Fants) is a whopping 1 inch. Zach Ertz has smaller arms than Hock. I get wanting Hock to have longer arms would be nice, but they aren't small enough to be real liability, especially since he isn't just a basketball catch radius TE, but a motion TE.

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10 hours ago, Leader said:

Nagler:

Starting to hope Cody Ford falls to 30. Play him at RG this year, move him to RT next year when Bulaga's contract is up. Versatile lineman who has some nasty to him. Sign me up.

Nagler has to know about the thresholds by now. I would ask him about it, but I wouldn’t want to get quote tweeted and dressed down by him. 

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5 hours ago, deathstar said:

Got it. In my opinion having seen him move in games. I believe he can cover plenty of ground. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

It’s not agree or disagree that Ford will be a good football player. I think most of us think he will. It’s just that his best game is a power game and the Packers like their linemen to be able to move more.

Those athletic numbers are not ours here on this board they’ve been the Packers thresholds historically. I’ve got to believe they feel those are the traits that best fit their zone blocking scheme. 

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3 hours ago, MantyWrestler said:

It’s not agree or disagree that Ford will be a good football player. I think most of us think he will. It’s just that his best game is a power game and the Packers like their linemen to be able to move more.

Those athletic numbers are not ours here on this board they’ve been the Packers thresholds historically. I’ve got to believe they feel those are the traits that best fit their zone blocking scheme. 

And as I said earlier, I don’t believe he’s on the Packers board. I’m well aware of the Packers thresholds. That doesn’t mean Ford can’t play zone because he recorded a >8 second 3 cone. If you’d like to point me to any clips or video of him failing to run zone I’d love to watch it.

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6 hours ago, Isherwood said:

Nagler has to know about the thresholds by now. I would ask him about it, but I wouldn’t want to get quote tweeted and dressed down by him. 

He'd probably block you if you disagree with him like he did me.

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On 3/6/2019 at 9:45 PM, cannondale said:

Yes. I have 36/37 arms so the bench was, needless to say, not my favorite stop.  I have a 36" inseam, so the leg press was also not my favorite stop.

LIS it's all about projecting to the next level. I disagree totally about the need for arm length. He's gonna need it to be the blocker everyone thinks he might be, and to create separation and a catch radius when ILB's are running step for step at the next level. I read somewhere that Iowa ran 2 TE 40% of the time. I think he was the beneficiary of having Fant and his reputation on the field with him. Obviously I'm not a huge fan

Goodness, you're making a big deal out of nothing.  You're picking at numbers to make an argument when you clearly haven't watched the film.  Piss off with this catch radius B.S.  Hock catches the ball away from his body better than Fant.  ****.  How long were Jeff Janis' arms?  Did that help him catch the ball away from his body?

The bench/blocking concern might be the most uninformed post I've seen this month.  I'd feel really dumb if NFL evaluators were gushing about him being the best blocker to come around in a loooong time and then I pointed to 17 reps on the bench press as evidence that he might not be.  

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