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2019 Draft Discussion


jleisher

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9 minutes ago, JaireAlex said:

My point on him is that Pettine doesn't value that at a 12. Other teams do. Am I wrong?

 

What about the DL whom Pettine DOES value? I see round one in Williams and Wilkins only. Is anyone else worth a 12, or even a 30? I am not feeling it. I am real happy with Hock and an OL at 30. 

 

And I only joined to get some discussion on this. Do we serious draft a non Pettine guy when we just picked up the Smiths? Seems a day two pick at edge is ten times more likely with all our needs.

Except Wilkins is a 4-3 guy... I love him to death, but his measurables and his strengths/weaknesses warrant a 3-Tech slot or 5-Tech run support only kind of role like all those other Clemson DL.

 

Also, Ed Oliver does not have the length to play in our scheme. He has short arms...

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2 minutes ago, Leader said:

Okay - I can see that too (amazing how well I can see today..... :) )

So - personally, I'd take Burns - but thats just me and my desire to kill off the position. The Burns vs Oliver talent differences (?) as it pertains to our system? Too subtle for me to gauge.

But - say you trade down - how far would you consider going - and for who? You think either (or both) of these guys would still be there (?) or you have your eyes on a different guy/position?

 

It really depends on how the board looks and what trades are available. I haven't constructed a full board yet (a project I'm currently working on starting), but I think moving down w/NYG if they don't take a QB at 6 and picking up another pick could make sense. Somewhere in that late teens/early 20s make sense to me if the higher end guys are gone. One other guy I could see as being worth taking at 12 is Andre Dillard, but I understand the arguments that the value may not be there in year one.

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2 minutes ago, Joe said:

Except Wilkins is a 4-3 guy... I love him to death, but his measurables and his strengths/weaknesses warrant a 3-Tech slot or 5-Tech run support only kind of role like all those other Clemson DL.

 

Also, Ed Oliver does not have the length to play in our scheme. He has short arms...

There's no such thing as a 4-3/3-4 guy anymore. Nickel is base.

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Just now, PossibleCabbage said:

He has sweet feet though, you can play him at linebacker if you really wanted to.  I mean, MIke Daniels has short arms too and he's been fine.

Arm length is overrated.

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Just now, rcon14 said:

It really depends on how the board looks and what trades are available. I haven't constructed a full board yet (a project I'm currently working on starting), but I think moving down w/NYG if they don't take a QB at 6 and picking up another pick could make sense. Somewhere in that late teens/early 20s make sense to me if the higher end guys are gone. One other guy I could see as being worth taking at 12 is Andre Dillard, but I understand the arguments that the value may not be there in year one.

Okay - thats cool. This is all subjective as **** and nobody can be outright wrong. Its just stating a preferance.
As for the trade down option - I've not personally considered it. We've got 10 selections - its already been stated by others its unlikely we're gonna nab 10 guys - so I'd rather stay on the high side selection-wise - and in theory at least - snag the best talent - which again is all subjective.

Good chat. Thanks.

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5 minutes ago, JaireAlex said:

I'm not an Oliver fan. Give me Saunders later.

 

I don't think Burns is valued at 12 by Pettine. (But I could be wrong. Just facilitating discussion for what our options are.)

 

I'm just trying to get a feel for what in the world is worth our 12 to THIS team.

 

I see trade down as the best option at 12. I just want Hock and that's a high price for TE. Y'all are convincing me we don't have a pick at 12

Are you Mike Pettine?

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1 minute ago, JBURGE said:

If we get to 6 and Josh Allen is there I'm making a call. Who is interested in 12 and 44 for Josh Allen?

No. I want more picks 25-75. We need a restock. This team lacks depth and doesn't even have a second starter at safety. Too many on this board are seeing "must have edge". I just don't see the high end talent here and certainly not a need anymore.

 

I see a very good draft for taking as many picks as possible 25-75. A lot of possible pro bowl players and starters. More picks are more shots. This draft is great for restocking. We could get 4-6 starters with a trade down or two.

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1 minute ago, rcon14 said:

Arm length is overrated.

Specifically when we're talking about a guy whose elite attribute is his get-off.  In blocking/rushing scenarios the value of arm length is those situations where you can get into their body before they can get into yours.  If you're the first guy off the ball 8 times out of 10 that's much less of an issue.

I mean, Aaron Donald is the best defensive player in the NFL today, so it shouldn't be a surprise how Oliver can work.

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8 minutes ago, JBURGE said:

If we get to 6 and Josh Allen is there I'm making a call. Who is interested in 12 and 44 for Josh Allen?

I do believe we'll see two trade ups with both of our first rounders. I don't know if we'd give up a second to do it though.

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Just now, Leader said:

Okay - thats cool. This is all subjective as **** and nobody can be outright wrong. Its just stating a preferance.
As for the trade down option - I've not personally considered it. We've got 10 selections - its already been stated by others its unlikely we're gonna nab 10 guys - so I'd rather stay on the high side selection-wise - and in theory at least - snag the best talent - which again is all subjective.

Good chat. Thanks.

I think something I could be interested in as well as some pick swaps. Say with NYG (just as an example):

12, 75, 118

17, 37

Using the TV chart (which I'm not a huge fan of), GB is giving up 1473 and receiving 1480. There are ways, especially with teams that have a multiple picks in a round to get creative with the options. I wouldn't love the idea of trading down just to collect a bunch of 4s and 5s (the draft is mostly four rounds anyway), but maneuvering our way into getting more picks in the 30-70 range would be good, I think.

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10 minutes ago, Joe said:

Except Wilkins is a 4-3 guy... I love him to death, but his measurables and his strengths/weaknesses warrant a 3-Tech slot or 5-Tech run support only kind of role like all those other Clemson DL.

 

Also, Ed Oliver does not have the length to play in our scheme. He has short arms...

Yeah. That's what I thought.......Again I have no one I think is worth a 12. Very different from last year. 

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5 minutes ago, rcon14 said:

I think something I could be interested in as well as some pick swaps. Say with NYG (just as an example):

12, 75, 118

17, 37

Using the TV chart (which I'm not a huge fan of), GB is giving up 1473 and receiving 1480. There are ways, especially with teams that have a multiple picks in a round to get creative with the options. I wouldn't love the idea of trading down just to collect a bunch of 4s and 5s (the draft is mostly four rounds anyway), but maneuvering our way into getting more picks in the 30-70 range would be good, I think.

Could very well be. Hey listen, I'll be totally honest here...part of my thinking to hang where we are and select (perceived) top talent - is I dont have the depth of knowledge for the 3rd, 4th, 5th best options and how'd they'd contribute to us. Hence, I leave that to our vaunted FO :)

More - I emphasize positional needs I want killed off with the BPA. Something of a contradiction in draft day philosophies.....but so be it.

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11 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said:

He has sweet feet though, you can play him at linebacker if you really wanted to.  I mean, MIke Daniels has short arms too and he's been fine.

Daniels was round four. Oliver is not Aaron Donald though he might get drafted like him. I have no bona fide pick 12 (unless someone drops). Maybe I am wrong about Burns but I am not a fan and don't value his play as high as other edges. We have no need there and seems that if the Packers thought as much of this edge class as this forum does, they would not have spent the bank on TWO edges. How am I misreading the FA moves?

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