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2019 Draft Discussion

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Just now, JaireAlex said:

Daniels was round four. Oliver is not Aaron Donald though he might get drafted like him. I have no bona fide pick 12 (unless someone drops). Maybe I am wrong about Burns but I am not a fan and don't value his play as high as other edges. We have no need there and seems that if the Packers thought as much of this edge class as this forum does, they would not have spent the bank on TWO edges. How am I misreading the FA moves?

What don't you see with Burns?

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Oliver excites me the most of any prospect.  This guy was top 3 pick until he stopped playing to preserve his value and health.  I don't see what has changed.

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Just now, rcon14 said:

What don't you see with Burns?

Can he set the edge? Is he three down? 

 

I don't value a specialist as worthy of a top fifteen pick unless he's a consensus pro bowl prospect. Every year these guys get overdrafts imo and then rarely produce more than a couple seasons. Please I would take Hock ten times out ten over these guys. I'm open to being convinced that I am underrating Burns. Don't get me wrong. I'm just promoting discussion, not giving my "expertise" here.

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2 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

Oliver excites me the most of any prospect.  This guy was top 3 pick until he stopped playing to preserve his value and health.  I don't see what has changed.

Yea if the Packers are looking at 2020 with this draft, picking Oliver and the best OT at 30 makes the most sense. You're likely losing Daniels and Bulaga, go draft their replacements. 

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Passing on good football players for scheme fit was a Capers thing. That's why Pettine is here. We need to stop searching for scheme fits and search for the best football players, he'll use them accordingly.

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3 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Mack Wilson 4.72 at his Pro Day.  Ew.

I thought he looked bad against the speed of Clemson. Maybe its because he is slow?

 

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Just now, Packerraymond said:

Passing on good football players for scheme fit was a Capers thing. That's why Pettine is here. We need to stop searching for scheme fits and search for the best football players, he'll use them accordingly.

Agree entirely. You sure you're not Gute? :)

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Just now, JaireAlex said:

Can he set the edge? Is he three down? 

 

I don't value a specialist as worthy of a top fifteen pick unless he's a consensus pro bowl prospect. Every year these guys get overdrafts imo and then rarely produce more than a couple seasons. Please I would take Hock ten times out ten over these guys. I'm open to being convinced that I am underrating Burns. Don't get me wrong. I'm just promoting discussion, not giving my "expertise" here.

I hope you don't take it that way, I think the discussion is important. As someone who is high on Burns, I think it's productive to talk to someone who isn't. With Burns, he absolutely is not going to be your traditional edge setter. No doubt about it. His run defense is going to be similar to younger Clay Matthews. He's going to have to beat his tackle to the gap or maneuver around him. There are positives and negatives to it as it's a risk/reward thing.

A big part of it for me is that I actually don't really care what an EDGE run defense looks like all that much. Running the football is inefficient and I want the opponent to do it. Give me guys who can be impactful in the passing game on both sides of the ball, and that's where I see Burns as having a very high chance for real impact.

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2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Passing on good football players for scheme fit was a Capers thing. That's why Pettine is here. We need to stop searching for scheme fits and search for the best football players, he'll use them accordingly.

I mean, there are some guys with traits so special that if you cannot figure out how to use them then you really should not be in charge of scheming any part of the team.  Oliver is one of those guys.

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1 minute ago, rcon14 said:

Running the football is inefficient

That's why the recipe to beat the Lions was pray they give it to Blount.  

Man that's painful to type.

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5 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said:

I mean, there are some guys with traits so special that if you cannot figure out how to use them then you really should not be in charge of scheming any part of the team.  Oliver is one of those guys.

I've got to watch some tape on this guy. He's often come up in a Burns or Oliver context - so I've been dissing him (research-wise) cause I'm biased towards Burns - but sounds like he could be the guy selected -- or there to be selected - so might as well see whats up with him.

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2 hours ago, Fl0nkerton said:

Ugh I forgot we value heart and smarts and gym rats and attitude and intangibles on here.

Let's make a movie about him. He's basically the Wisconsin Rudy.

I mean, I like the guy as much as the next, but you really think putting Jim Leonard back at safety last year makes a difference?

Sorry if you misunderstood my take.  My take was about drafting smart, highly instinctive football players higher than their physical measurements allow.  I was only using Leonard as an example.  Every draft, players race up draft boards because of measurements and under perform as players, while players are underdrafted because of poor measurements and over perform based off of those measurements.  

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1 minute ago, rcon14 said:

I hope you don't take it that way, I think the discussion is important. As someone who is high on Burns, I think it's productive to talk to someone who isn't. With Burns, he absolutely is not going to be your traditional edge setter. No doubt about it. His run defense is going to be similar to younger Clay Matthews. He's going to have to beat his tackle to the gap or maneuver around him. There are positives and negatives to it as it's a risk/reward thing.

A big part of it for me is that I actually don't really care what an EDGE run defense looks like all that much. Running the football is inefficient and I want the opponent to do it. Give me guys who can be impactful in the passing game on both sides of the ball, and that's where I see Burns as having a very high chance for real impact.

Well. As I said above. I am happy if they take Burns at 12. I am happy if they pass. It will tell us something about Burns and the value on that type by this regime.

 

I just think Pettine doesn't put that pricetag on a part time player. I also DO NOT unless he is a sure thing. Keep in mind Pettine schemes pass rush and did a great job last year with no talent. He values the edge play while I am sure not overrating it and the starters did very well against the run before injuries --- it leads to third and longs while the actual run numbers don't much matter anymore.

 

Anyways, some good discussion. I am still sitting at Hock or move down. I don't value anyone at 12 and like round 2-3 a lot.

 

Will take another look at Burns and Oliver. I only glanced and don't value them that high.

 

Thanks. I actually think CMIII is worth a 12 only. That body just doesn't age well as he proved. Others too.

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8 minutes ago, Leader said:

I've got to watch some tape on this guy. He's often come up in a Burns or Oliver context - so I've been dissing him (research-wise) cause I'm biased towards Burns - but sounds like he could be the guy selected -- or there to be selected - so might as well see whats up with him.

A thing to keep in mind- Houston was playing him out of position at nose tackle.  Realistically you can line him up anywhere from 3 to 9 and it'll work; he can probably play 2 or 3 of the LB positions too.  Green Bay is not looking for another nose tackle.

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