MacReady Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 3 hours ago, Burnett42 said: 3rd and 4th round TEs It's almost like third and fourth round picks are less than first round picks. It's a simple concept: Unless you have solid or better starters at QB, RB, OT, EDGE, DL, CB, S (x 2 for OT, EDGE, DL, CB, S) for the next four years, you don't take a TE in the first unless that TE is a Hall of Fame talent and the other position is an average talent. That literally cannot possibly be the case at 12th overall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 The Draft Network Top 10 IDL - 3/27/19 1. Quinnen Williams - Alabama 2. Ed Oliver - Houston 3. Christian Wilkins - Clemson 4. Rashan Gary - Michigan 5. Jeffery Simmons - Mississippi State 6. Dexter Lawrence - Clemson 7. Jerry Tillery - Notre Dame 8. Dre'Mont Jones - Ohio State 9. Daniel Wise - Kansas 10. Dontavius Russell - Auburn Top 10 EDGE - 3/24/19 1. Brian Burns - Florida State 2. Nick Bosa - Ohio State 3. Clelin Ferrell - Clemson 4. Josh Allen - Kentucky 5. Montez Sweat - Mississippi State 6. Chase Winovich - Michigan 7. Charles Omenihu - Texas 8. Jachai Polite - Florida 9. Ben Banogu - TCU 10. L.J. Collier - TCU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitnhope Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 I really have to question The Draft Network ratings at edge.. I don't know how they could have Burns ahead of Bosa. He should be behind Allen as well. Burns constantly watches others chase on the film I have watched. Bosa is a flat out stud. Allen brings it stronger and more consistently while also being an exceptional physical talent. I am surprised, but feel less strong about Ferrell. Don't see him ahead of Allen either, and would probably put him behind Sweat as well. Ferrell had the advantage of have 2 studs and a solid player on the same line. It was impossible for other teams to give him the attention they gave to the other really good edge players who didn't have similar help. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Not sure about anyone else, but Knox is up there with Sternberger as TEs no. 3 and 4 for me. Irv Smith is maybe No. 5. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 36 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: It's almost like third and fourth round picks are less than first round picks. It's a simple concept: Unless you have solid or better starters at QB, RB, OT, EDGE, DL, CB, S (x 2 for OT, EDGE, DL, CB, S) for the next four years, you don't take a TE in the first unless that TE is a Hall of Fame talent and the other position is an average talent. That literally cannot possibly be the case at 12th overall. I agree with this. There is a point where I consider a TE in round 1. My point was that the TEs that have gone in the 1st in recent history have been very solid prospects with a high hit %. So if you are looking for a safer 1st round pick, TE isn't a bad option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 minute ago, packfanfb said: Not sure about anyone else, but Knox is up there with Sternberger as TEs no. 3 and 4 for me. Irv Smith is maybe No. 5. @Cadmus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Speaking of prospect fatigue, I'm getting fatigued talking about the draft. It's like, hey, this thing is going to happen and it could go in literally a million different ways and we could get two players on the first day or one or three or four or none and it could be this or that position and this or that person. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 17 hours ago, Leader said: It becomes an interesting hypothetical doesnt it? Thats why I was looking for the shades of difference between Oliver and Williams. Me? Burns/CGJ is awfully tempting - (and I'd be real pleased) - but I'll defer to the DL guys knowledge and input. Yah, great words there "shades of difference". Q is bigger, obviously. Q has much better hands and shedding ability. Oliver has better quickness, probably a little better agility, too. Both are great, I like Q just a "shade" better because of those hands and his ability to never really get totally engaged and run out of plays. Q can sit down, control, shed and move to the ball. Oliver needs to fire out and disrupt. If he sits down, he's done. That simply isn't his game. Q is going to be the better of the two and play both the run and pass very well. Oliver is going to be a much better pure disruptor. Better, quicker pass rush. Not as good against the run. If I were running an offense against Oliver, I'd trap him. Let him penetrate and hit him from all angles. I'm sure a lot of NFL people thought that about Donald, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 48 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: It's almost like third and fourth round picks are less than first round picks. It's a simple concept: Unless you have solid or better starters at QB, RB, OT, EDGE, DL, CB, S (x 2 for OT, EDGE, DL, CB, S) for the next four years, you don't take a TE in the first unless that TE is a Hall of Fame talent and the other position is an average talent. That literally cannot possibly be the case at 12th overall. You keep pounding this drum yet profession GM's keep doing otherwise. Also, putting a RB in that group is laughable. The RB position has been so downgraded in the NFL you should never take one before the end of round 1. If TE is the top player on your board at 12 and you need 1 you grab 1. If it's close with EDGE, OT, DT or CB for us, I'd have to consider the other positions because I think you can get a better TE in round 2 or 3 than those other positions. Not because I don't see value in the TE position. A top TE who can catch and block are such weapons for an offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 41 minutes ago, Leader said: The Draft Network Top 10 IDL - 3/27/19 1. Quinnen Williams - Alabama 2. Ed Oliver - Houston 3. Christian Wilkins - Clemson 4. Rashan Gary - Michigan 5. Jeffery Simmons - Mississippi State 6. Dexter Lawrence - Clemson 7. Jerry Tillery - Notre Dame 8. Dre'Mont Jones - Ohio State 9. Daniel Wise - Kansas 10. Dontavius Russell - Auburn Top 10 EDGE - 3/24/19 1. Brian Burns - Florida State 2. Nick Bosa - Ohio State 3. Clelin Ferrell - Clemson 4. Josh Allen - Kentucky 5. Montez Sweat - Mississippi State 6. Chase Winovich - Michigan 7. Charles Omenihu - Texas 8. Jachai Polite - Florida 9. Ben Banogu - TCU 10. L.J. Collier - TCU Here you guys go: https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/meet-the-top-10-idl-of-the-2019-draft https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/meet-the-top-10-edge-defenders-of-the-2019-draft 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 minute ago, Arthur Penske said: Here you guys go: https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/meet-the-top-10-idl-of-the-2019-draft https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/meet-the-top-10-edge-defenders-of-the-2019-draft Allen and Gary sliding, that is interesting. Not a big Gary fan because his ability doesn't show up on tape. I'd love to snag Allen and have all but given up on it being a possibility. I'm leaning towards Oliver if he slides, but those pro day numbers are really impressive so doubt he gets close to dropping to 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Leader said: All due respect, but I dont consider any writer (from any publication or source) commenting "if player X is there at their pick, they won’t let him get past them.” - as anything more than a personal eval about that players talents combining with a team's (perceived) need. An opinion for my consideration. Nothing more. Nothing less. They're essentially beat writers. I know I'm likely in the minority because people like to soak up their drivel, but I don't want their or any beat writers opinion or personal evaluations. It's worth no more than the opinions of us amateurs on here., and in some cases less. I want the news and facts associated with the team to come from them and I'll get my evaluations from those who at least concentrate on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 19 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Speaking of prospect fatigue, I'm getting fatigued talking about the draft. It's like, hey, this thing is going to happen and it could go in literally a million different ways and we could get two players on the first day or one or three or four or none and it could be this or that position and this or that person. I was too until we signed the Smith's and Amos. It totally opened the board up for me and has made it so much more interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 (edited) Just now, Golfman said: You keep pounding this drum yet profession GM's keep doing otherwise. Such esteemed GM's as: Martin Mayhew (Lions) Eric Ebron Scott McCloughan (49ers) Vernon Davis Have drafted a tight end top 12 in the past 18 seasons. Which GM is taking a TE top 12? Neither of those tight ends were worth where they were drafted. If you go further into the draft to 24, where I have frequently said and have on record as saying is the point where you can start taking non-premium positions, so pick 1-23... 10 tight ends have been taken top 23. The complete list of "professional GMs" who "keep doing" this is... Martin Mayhew (Lions) Eric Ebron Scott McCloughan (49ers) Vernon Davis Ernie Accorsi (Giants) Jeremy Shockey Jerry Reese (Giants) Evan Engram (Reese was fired in week 13, great example) Mike Brown (owner of the Bengals). Jermaine Gresham. Great decisions for the team that hasn't won a playoff game in decades. Mike Brown (Again). Tyler Eiffert. Ron Wolf (Packers) Bubba Franks. Ron Wolf's last draft. It's a good thing Wolf's last first round pick was Bubba Franks, right? Martin Mayhew (Brandon Pettigrew) Jason Licht (OJ Howard). Bill Belichick (Daniel Graham) So in total, you've got: 8 GMs who have taken a tight end in the top 24. 7 teams who have taken a tight end in the top 24. 4 GMs who were fired between picking a TE top 24 and making it to the playoffs. 1 owner who cannot be fired for taking a TE twice in the top 24. One single GM who won a Super Bowl after drafting a TE top 24. He definitely could not have done it without Daniel Graham. This is all since 2000. People think GMs don't think the same way, but they do. The only ones who draft tight ends top 24 are the ones who suck, or the ones who are bad at drafting. There's a reason why the Bengals and Lions and Giants are the only three teams to have drafted a TE top 24 since this century started. They're bad franchises. Shockey was a non-factor and I don't think he even played in that postseason they won a Super Bowl. They fired the man who drafted Shockey, then the very next year won a Super Bowl. Bill Belichick is the single solitary outlier of GMs having success and not getting fired after taking a TE in the top 23. We all know he sucks at drafting. Edited March 29, 2019 by Outpost31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 I think an elite TE is more valuable than an elite WR, for what that's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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