GDT Week 3: DEN @ BAL

[thebestever6]

The defenseive unit has no cohesion many can say its because of lack of talent, but we have the most depth of pass rushers in the league. 

 

I think this is a transition period. You have hold overs from the previous regime, and new guys from the Vance Joseph era because elway wants to give Vance the best opportunity to succeed.  It's not gonna work fitting square pegs into round holes never does.

I'm glad niners aren't working out Lynch that would be something if shanny sucked every ounce of talent out of him while he looked lost here. And many wanted Shanny to be the coach.

[AKRNA]

2 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

I actually like Bolles a lot . I mean yea we could of gotten other guys last year and thats why people are petty on here but he looks very capable. 

Yup. I'm still pretty confident in my original assessment a couple of years ago, that being he'd really struggle his first year, be a coming talent and top 10 LT his second and a perennial pro bowler in his third.

Nothing I've seen changes my opinion. Watch the replays. He played really well against tough competition, held his own when Keenum dropped too deep or scrambled and was only really beaten a couple of times with great moves by a 1st ballot HOF player.

How can you not like that progress?

[BroncosFan2010]

Bolles has grown on me but Reuben Foster is still the correct pick. I also think Ramczyk will end up better in the long run, and further that dealing down rather than up and getting Forrest Lamp or Cam Robinson would have been better moves.

But Bolles isnt some firey bust or anything, he has a good work ethic and above average athleticism. He just plays too 'excited' and, to me, doesnt seem like the smartest cookie in the jar, and that may be limiting to his ceiling as the true elite OT's have very fast play diagnosis on the field and use the 'little things' to their advantage, IDK if Bolles is going to get there.

[broncosfan07]

Didn't see much of the game but one thing that's stood out for a long time now. Todd Davis is horrible.

[jsthomp2007]

8 minutes ago, broncosfan07 said:

Didn't see much of the game but one thing that's stood out for a long time now. Todd Davis is horrible.

But he stayed at a Holiday Inn.

[Broncofan]

3 hours ago, broncosfan07 said:

Didn't see much of the game but one thing that's stood out for a long time now. Todd Davis is horrible.

He's just so limited in pass coverage.   Great run stuffer, shouldn't take that away from him.   And obviously a great character guy if the players voted him as captain.  But Davis has an old-school skill set that doesn't work in today's NFL (15-20 years ago, ironically, totally fine) - at least not at 2nd contract $ (5M seems like it's not much in today's NFL, but for ILB, it's top 15 money, while guaranteed cash it's still 22nd - so top half, and not what we can afford for a 2-down only player).    ILB is the RB position for salary cap purposes.   It's one thing if Davis could do even a little as a pass protector - but he's such a target when O's see he's on the field, to exploit with a RB/TE.    Being that poor at pass coverage is just so easy for teams to prey on (like having a RB that is a complete zero in the pass game, D keys on the run, or ignores that player with pass, making rest of O harder to succeed with 1 less functional player).

At least we have Jewell, who will eventually take over one of the 2 ILB spots.  But in reality we probably need to hit ILB again next year, so we can let Davis walk after year 2 of his 3 year deal, and we can save 5M of the 2020 6M salary.   Hopefully we'll find another potential 2-way ILB player (Jewell  came out for pass pro this week, but that's expected this early in his rookie year, while he may never be an elite pass coverage ILB with his average athleticism, he's got coverage skills and awareness that Davis just doesn't have).   We pretty much have to let Marshall go next year (along with DT) to clear space so we can be more competitive (we only save 3M next year with a Davis cut, and 5M with a Marshall cut, so simple math decision, Marshall in his prime was the no-brainer keeper, but the injuries have turned him into a more limited version of his peak 2014-15 years), so hopefully Elway prioritizes ILB in the draft - fortunately, it's not a position that needs an early pick unless you can get an elite difference maker like Reuben Foster / Roquan Smith (but yes, that still stings).   The decision to completely skip ILB altogether in 2017 is a really mystifying decision.   

Forget passing on Foster, passing on ILB for the whole draft when we knew Davis was a UFA and no one else was ready to step in..man, just poor planning all the way around on 2017's draft (I mean, Elway targeted Langley and Yiadom in consecutive years, reading the future roster issues at CB - he just whiffed on Langley badly <shocker Day 2>).   I mean, Elway took 2 gadget ST/WR guys last year and ignored a position that was going to need a 2018 starter.  SMH.   Oh well, at least we have Jewell and Day 2 picks aren't complete whiffs, 2 step downs, a few more to go...

[BroncosFan2010]

Todd Davis at 5M per season was an absolutley bananas signing. He is a vet min talent. Thumper ILB's are a dime/dozen.

I would take a guy off the streets over Davis, as long as that guy is getting paid the minimum. Maybe his attitude has kept him unsigned, but you cant tell me that Navarro Bowman at the vet min, taking the spot from Todd, isnt an upgrade to this team. Especially if he only plays early downs, and we keep rotation Josey / hybrid S in on passing downs.

Todd Davis is a replacement level guy who is making middle tier ILB money. Its insane, especially with our cap issues looming.

[BroncoBruin]

Todd Davis is who he is, nothing has changed since that Falcons game in 2016. Meanwhile Brandon Marshall is worse and making more money. 

[BroncoBruin]

Marshall and Stewart were such terrible re-signings. In that post-Super Bowl glow, you just want everybody re-signed but it's never the smart play. Only difference makers should re-signed. Average, above average and good players are totally replaceable. 

[AKRNA]

2 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

Marshall and Stewart were such terrible re-signings. In that post-Super Bowl glow, you just want everybody re-signed but it's never the smart play. Only difference makers should re-signed. Average, above average and good players are totally replaceable. 

Great take and very very true.

Sunday was the first time I'd had a chance to see Jewel in something other than highlight film. He kind of excites me BB. Old school, very instinctive ILB. IMO he has "3 down ILB" written all over him. Looks far better to me than either Davis or Marshall. He stood out to me Sunday. I'm looking forward to hearing from @lomaxgrUK regarding his play. 

[BroncoBruin]

22 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

Great take and very very true.

Sunday was the first time I'd had a chance to see Jewel in something other than highlight film. He kind of excites me BB. Old school, very instinctive ILB. IMO he has "3 down ILB" written all over him. Looks far better to me than either Davis or Marshall. He stood out to me Sunday. I'm looking forward to hearing from @lomaxgrUK regarding his play. 

I like him a lot too. Really impressive awareness and seems like he'll be a perfect leader for the defense with more experience. Watching him, I can't help but feel he'll be a perfect zone coverage LB. I think he's smart enough to be competent in man, but some matchups will always be a problem for him because he's not the fastest. Playing zone with his eyes on the QB, I think he could be pretty special. 

In general, I think this defense is destined to be more of a zone team going forward with the way our LBs and CBs outside Harris have struggled so much in coverage. They still play very much in the vein of Wade's defense, but on that 2015 team almost every player was just better than the guys they lined up against, so they could keep things simple. There was no need to do much disguising. Von, Ware and Malik were going to get into the backfield quickly, no WRs were going to get open and there was almost always an extra safety or linebacker (sometimes both) who could be used to help anywhere or become an extra rusher. They just don't have that luxury anymore, there aren't enough difference makers left. I'm really getting the feeling it's time to move on from Wade's system. 

[AKRNA]

12 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

I like him a lot too. Really impressive awareness and seems like he'll be a perfect leader for the defense with more experience. Watching him, I can't help but feel he'll be a perfect zone coverage LB. I think he's smart enough to be competent in man, but some matchups will always be a problem for him because he's not the fastest. Playing zone with his eyes on the QB, I think he could be pretty special. 

In general, I think this defense is destined to be more of a zone team going forward with the way our LBs and CBs outside Harris have struggled so much in coverage. They still play very much in the vein of Wade's defense, but on that 2015 team almost every player was just better than the guys they lined up against, so they could keep things simple. There was no need to do much disguising. Von, Ware and Malik were going to get into the backfield quickly, no WRs were going to get open and there was almost always an extra safety or linebacker (sometimes both) who could be used to help anywhere or become an extra rusher. They just don't have that luxury anymore, there aren't enough difference makers left. I'm really getting the feeling it's time to move on from Wade's system. 

Can't disagree. Prior to Sunday however I figured Jewell would be limited to short zones. I'm not so sure now. He was impressive in his TE coverage down the seam in man.

I'd really like to see him paired with Cravens for certain packages (IE; 2nd or 3rd and long) Just might be a terrific pairing.

As far as the bolded, you may be spot on, especially with WR coverage. Wades great when he has the talent to play his system. Without the lockdown DB's his system just doesn't work. Right now I'm a bit concerned with Woods ability (or lack of) to design and/or implement a system that really puts players in a position to shine. Hopefully he answers that question in the next few games. Talent wise we're not the same team as in 2015. We still have better "D" talent than most teams in the NFL though. I'm really interested in how that unfolds.

Curious, whats your take on how weather affected Keenum and our "O". It just looked to me like Keenum doesn't have the physical abilities to be much more than a "dome" QB. Lack of hand strength to grip wet balls, no velocity................ I just got real frustrated watching him look downfield when he had no velocity on short throws.

 

[lomaxgrUK]

1st Quarter Notes

-          Josey Jewell in for Marshall in our first defensive snap (3-4 base personnel)

-          First 2 plays have seen us move Simmons down to the box in our usual Cover 1. Ravens have put their TE in motion on both plays, and Simmons has followed him across the formation both times. On the 2^nd snap, the TE lined up as a FB and ran a flat route, with him being Flacco’s first read. Simmons had position so Flacco moved off it

-          Impressive power rush from Chubb on the 1^st series sack. Stanley (Ravens LT) didn’t get set due to Chubb getting underneath him

-          Went to Cover 1 ‘robber’ on 3^rd down, with Simmons being the robber. Will Parks in man coverage on the TE. Shane Ray in at DT, runs a game with Chubb

-          That’s a hell of a move at the LOS by Joseph Jones on the blocked Punt

-          Nice ‘HB Counter’ execution on the Freeman TD run. Jake Butt couldn’t find someone to block when he came back underneath the formation

-          That unnecessary roughness call on Yiadom when he was on the sidelines was SO weak. He’s literally barely touched him. Josey Jewell got tripped up which gave the lane for the return to go to the 37 yard line before the penalty

-          Total defensive breakdown on that long completion to the (hurdling) TE. Nobody within 10 yards of the TE at any point. Not a clue who’s responsibility he was

-          Shaquil Barrett can’t cover TE’s. Hot take

-          Marshall definitely on a snapcount. Seems to be taken out in 3-4 base

-          Josey Jewell read the Collins TD perfectly, but got held to stop him making the play (see below). Lamar Jackson motion caused disruption presnap for our Defense. We basically substituted Stewart in the box for Roby; a massive downgrade on a running play

 

-          Losses all across the OL on our 1^st running play of the 2^nd drive. Janovich wiffs on eventual tackler for a 1 yard loss

-          On the first 2 3^rd downs of our 2^nd drive we put a RB in the slot (Lindsay then Booker). The latter caught a ball for a 1^st on a (blatant) pick play. Garrett Bolles should’ve been flagged for holding

-          Absolutely love the playcall for the long Sanders TD run. Defense is in clear man coverage, so Sutton runs a go route to the side that Sanders is running, thus the CB is facing away from the play. Sutton nearly had Carr (the CB) in the parking lot before he realised what was going on

-          I am really not one to whinge about officiating, but this is getting beyond a joke and its half way through the 1^st Q. Jewell, again, snuffs out a running play before getting blocked in the back. Look at the state of it …

-          Flacco has gone at CHJ in 3 consecutive throws. 2 for a 1^st down, 1 an incompletion after a CHJ strip before completion. Von pressure on the last throw

-          Not sure if it’s something they have seen on film, but the HB Counter has been great for us in this Quarter

-          Mental lapse by Bolles on a zone run to allow a loss of 3. Tried to get to the outside shoulder of the DE when his assignment was the inside shoulder. Look how everyone else is blocking to the inside shoulder, sans Leary who knows he has Paradis on the inside shoulder

-          Veldheer has been awful the whole 1^st Q. He plays way too high, leaving him so susceptible to ‘dip and rip’ moves. He got beaten way too quick on the 3^rd and 2 that lead to a sack. Nothing Case can do about that. Frustrating, because we got the protection dialled up perfect on the 5 man rush

-          Really like Jewell’s run diagnosis in this 1^st Q. Reads another one, slips the pulling Guard, stops the play for a 2 yard gain

-          Nice play design by the Ravens the following play. It’s a 15 yard out route from the slot, coming underneath a go route. However, it’s a designed pick play up the field which will never get called. The ball goes  to the slot WR running the out route. CHJ has no chance of stopping this play in man coverage. CHJ was asking for the flag – no chance

[lomaxgrUK]

4 hours ago, AKRNA said:

Great take and very very true.

Sunday was the first time I'd had a chance to see Jewel in something other than highlight film. He kind of excites me BB. Old school, very instinctive ILB. IMO he has "3 down ILB" written all over him. Looks far better to me than either Davis or Marshall. He stood out to me Sunday. I'm looking forward to hearing from @lomaxgrUK regarding his play. 

Agree re: Marshall, not via Stewart. He's a very versatile, smart Safety. That said, I think Stewart is a potential cap casualty with the state of our cap next year. As per Spotrac, we've got a potential out with Stewart next year in that he's due to count $5.9 mill against the cap but only carries dead cap of $2.8 mill if we cut him. At lot will depend on the progress of Cravens and more importantly, Will Parks.

Brandon Marshall is due to count $9 mill (!!!!!) against the cap next year, with a $4 mill dead cap if we cut him. If he doesn't re-structure he's gone. No if's, no but's.

[Broncofan]

11 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

In general, I think this defense is destined to be more of a zone team going forward with the way our LBs and CBs outside Harris have struggled so much in coverage. 

....

There was no need to do much disguising. Von, Ware and Malik were going to get into the backfield quickly, no WRs were going to get open and there was almost always an extra safety or linebacker (sometimes both) who could be used to help anywhere or become an extra rusher. They just don't have that luxury anymore, there aren't enough difference makers left. I'm really getting the feeling it's time to move on from Wade's system. 

While I don't see us re-signing Roby given our cap issues, IMO there's no doubt that he's a much better fit in a read-and-react zone than a man/press system that Wade/Woods use.  And yeah, right now we are not a good man-to-man D. 

Jewell was a great pick regardless of the pass D we'll use, but yeah, his average foot speed will make him a much better read-and-react pass D as well.  His football IQ and recognition skills are 2 intangibles that make his average athleticism play up so well.

The big issue with using zone, though - elite QB's eat that up.   It leads to more reg-season success, but almost certainly leads to more failure in the playoffs, when you face better O's (and usually better QB's).   Even PHI used man last year with S help a lot, with a porous secondary.    Otherwise, the best teams have the ability to play man (yes, they play zone still, but not exclusively).    If we want to win 1-2 more games now and next year per season, we implement a zone D as the base.   If we want to be a true contender, we have to get better defenders who can shut down WR's and actually cover TE's.    I'm a more patient fan, in that it doesn't bother me if we are a non-contender at 6-10 or 8-8 - I just want to see real progress towards long-term contention.   Jewell & the young guys give me that.   

Adopting a zone would be a short-term fix for sure, but I'm not at all convinced it would help us return to true contention - it would just band-aid the current talent weaknesses we have, which we need to address most of all.  Again, the biggest problem comes down to Elway not being able to address skill positions effectively early on - had he gone Desmond King or Kazee over Langley at 3.99 (Howard Wilson was the other I was all over, who sadly tore his kneecap and Achilles, but can't predict injuries), we'd have pieces who could step in - instead, we've stashed Langley, and forced Yiadom to get burned on the field (who to be fair to him, has zero business being forced to play meaningful snaps this early).