Tearing It Down to Rebuild

[showtime]

I'm creating this topic for discussion.  It's not an overreaction to the first two weeks of the season.  I read an article from the Seattle Times where it stated in there that a few GM's believe that Russell Wilson could fetch three first round picks.  Here's an article that says Wilson and Seahawks future uncertain:  https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/report-russell-wilson-could-get-potentially-three-first-round-picks-in-a-trade/

Then there's the Earl Thomas situation where the Seahawks were offered a 2nd rounder, but refused.

The team has elite players (Thomas, Wilson and Wagner) and there is a ton of young talent around them.  The team looks mediocre, so what do you guys think about going into a full rebuild?  I know most of you were on board with trading Thomas in the off-season, but how would you feel about Wilson and Wagner being gone.

Wilson is going to be due for a new contract and will probably want something similar to what Aaron Rodgers just signed for.  Is it worth it to invest that much into a QB when the team probably will not make the postseason?

[One Punch Man]

I’ve been saying we need to rebuild for a while. Get rid of the current high-paid players, and build around Wilson and Wagner.

We have great supplemental pieces. Rasheem, Shaquill, Frank, McDougald on D... our offensive line (surprise) is still the problem. And we’re lacking a star WR. We need more than Lockett. 

We don’t need a complete rebuild. Trade Wright and Thomas. Get what we can. Address problem areas. Get a new OC. 

[showtime]

3 hours ago, One Punch Man said:

I’ve been saying we need to rebuild for a while. Get rid of the current high-paid players, and build around Wilson and Wagner.

We have great supplemental pieces. Rasheem, Shaquill, Frank, McDougald on D... our offensive line (surprise) is still the problem. And we’re lacking a star WR. We need more than Lockett. 

We don’t need a complete rebuild. Trade Wright and Thomas. Get what we can. Address problem areas. Get a new OC. 

How great are those pieces, though.  I have high hopes in regards to the guys you have mentioned, but who knows how good those guys will be.  Also, how long do you think it would take us to rebuild?  Russell Wilson is 30 years old.  With his style of play, how much longer do you think he can be a top 5 QB for?

[One Punch Man]

1 hour ago, showtime said:

How great are those pieces, though.  I have high hopes in regards to the guys you have mentioned, but who knows how good those guys will be.  Also, how long do you think it would take us to rebuild?  Russell Wilson is 30 years old.  With his style of play, how much longer do you think he can be a top 5 QB for?

Rasheem and Shaquill have above-average floor with high-ish ceilings. Clark is a great player. McDougald is average. Wagner is top-3 LB. Reed and Naz are average at what they do. The other Griffin brother could be something. If we keep Wright, he’s a step below great.

Address our CBs, add a talented Safety, perhaps an interior pass rusher.. our defense is not the major problem. It’s the same thing year after year man. Nearly our entire offensive line sucks and we need a playmaker at WR. 

[showtime]

13 hours ago, One Punch Man said:

Rasheem and Shaquill have above-average floor with high-ish ceilings. Clark is a great player. McDougald is average. Wagner is top-3 LB. Reed and Naz are average at what they do. The other Griffin brother could be something. If we keep Wright, he’s a step below great.

Address our CBs, add a talented Safety, perhaps an interior pass rusher.. our defense is not the major problem. It’s the same thing year after year man. Nearly our entire offensive line sucks and we need a playmaker at WR. 

I don't see Frank Clark as a great player.  I really like the Griffin twins and I think they have really good potential.  Wright is a good player, but I don't think he's close to being great.  Wagner is elite, I agree with that.

You say we need a playmaker at WR, yet Josh Gordon was just on the market and the Seahawks didn't get him.

[One Punch Man]

1 hour ago, showtime said:

I don't see Frank Clark as a great player.  I really like the Griffin twins and I think they have really good potential.  Wright is a good player, but I don't think he's close to being great.  Wagner is elite, I agree with that.

You say we need a playmaker at WR, yet Josh Gordon was just on the market and the Seahawks didn't get him.

He’d sit in the same space as a Cliff Avril or an Olivier Vernon. Maybe a step below great overall but he’s worth paying money, especially if he stays healthy. He’s showing that this year and has shown that when healthy in the past. Sack each game, few tackles for loss. Just from an eye test it’s obvious he’s one of our few threats on the defensive line. 

Perhaps Pete is aware that a playmaker at WR isn’t our biggest concern? Having a stud to throw to doesn’t matter if there’s no pocket to step into. Or the fact that Josh Gordon is a potential headache that he can’t take on. Come on that one ain’t hard to figure out.

Not to mention Pete screwed the pooch with all those trades last year. If our offensive line wasn’t pathetic, that alone would open up so much for our backs and Russ. I can’t believe I’m making this argument because I very much want the Hawks to start anew. But a complete rebuild? That’s ridiculous. Give Wilson a line that can protect him and maybe he won’t have to play the way he plays. He has the arm talent. 4-5 more years isn’t out of the question.

 Whoever the new coach/regime is will keep and develop the pieces we have, then add as they fit.  We aren’t that far away from being a decent team. We just don’t have a LoB or a Marshawn to compensate for our glaring weaknesses. We’ve never really had a good/great offensive line. As Wilson ages, that can’t be a constant. 

Get rid of Thomas and Wright while we can get value. Maybe even Baldwin too. Address the damn offensive line, sign/draft some decent WRs and DBs and we’d be alright. Not to make that sound easy. Like I said, our current office hasn’t been able to figure the offensive line part out for a while. 

Also I’d like to point out the fact we’ve had the absolute worst match-ups the first two weeks. Von Miller, Shaq Barrett, Chubb, Roby and Harris? Then Khalil Mack and the terribly underrated Bears D? They were good before Mack got there. All while Baldwin is out and our patchwork offensive line is learning to play with each other! I didn’t expect to win either of these games lol I’m just happy we competed. The situation isn’t great but we’re not as bad as the Cardinals or the other 0-2 teams.

[animaltested]

No, no no no. This isnt Madden. Seattle has a franchise QB, and blue chip elite players in Wagner and Earl. You work with that and refresh around them.

Seattles major issues stems from mediocre drafting. They have been good at drafting solid starters [Britt, Lockett, Willson, Clark, Reed, Shaq, Poccic, Jones etc.] but havent been able to hit on a difference maker since Wagner. Previous philosophy was to trade picks for difference makers [which may have exacerbated their decline]. Also, they havent been able to close deals on prime FA targets [Whitworth, Lang, Suh etc]. 

Seattle is is a really good financial situation moving forward, even with Russells 33 /year coming soon. I think they should keep Wags and Wright, extend Earl, Clark and Reed, and move forward adding pieces through the draft and FA. I think a big mistake was negating all the comp picks this year. Graham, Sheldon and P.Rich should have netted solid mid rounders, but alas they decided to replace them with URFA instead. Most of which are not contributing [Johnson/Stephens, Dickson, J. Brown]. Having an additional 2-3 mid round picks would have been huge moving forward IMO.

If a full rebuild is in order, you'll need to replace PCJS as awell. 

[Sacks98]

8 hours ago, animaltested said:

No, no no no. This isnt Madden. Seattle has a franchise QB, and blue chip elite players in Wagner and Earl. You work with that and refresh around them.

Seattles major issues stems from mediocre drafting. They have been good at drafting solid starters [Britt, Lockett, Willson, Clark, Reed, Shaq, Poccic, Jones etc.] but havent been able to hit on a difference maker since Wagner. Previous philosophy was to trade picks for difference makers [which may have exacerbated their decline]. Also, they havent been able to close deals on prime FA targets [Whitworth, Lang, Suh etc]. 

Seattle is is a really good financial situation moving forward, even with Russells 33 /year coming soon. I think they should keep Wags and Wright, extend Earl, Clark and Reed, and move forward adding pieces through the draft and FA. I think a big mistake was negating all the comp picks this year. Graham, Sheldon and P.Rich should have netted solid mid rounders, but alas they decided to replace them with URFA instead. Most of which are not contributing [Johnson/Stephens, Dickson, J. Brown]. Having an additional 2-3 mid round picks would have been huge moving forward IMO.

If a full rebuild is in order, you'll need to replace PCJS as awell. 

Agreed although I wouldn't mind getting rid of Earl he is becoming a distraction to the team we don't need someone with his attitude playing for us.

[ThirtyOne-EightyNine]

I think Wilson is ruined. He has been hit so many times since we traded Unger for Graham I dont think he will ever be a consistent pocket passer. He is amazing when he stands tall (ha) in the pocket but he gets happy feet and starts moving around for no reason and ends up sacked or throw away. Hardly ever checks down. I believe it has to do with Bevells play calling where it was so predictable that the first and second reads were never there so he improvised. Defenses have figured that out and contain him quite easily unless we are in hurry up. But Carroll wants to run the ball and control TOP so they try to be what they suck at doing and end up having 1:30 drives. Might as well go no huddle and score some points in 3 minute drives.

 

Wilsons magic is fun to watch but I dont want to build around him. He gets solid protection yet isnt confident in his linemen or his receivers and i doubt he ever will be again so what is the point in building around him? Carroll is out of touch now and Schneider hasnt had a good draft since 2012. Time to trade it away and rebuild with a new GM and HC. 

 

I appreciate everything they have done for my favorite team but I dont want to be a 10-6 wildcard team at best who gets bounced in the first round every year because our HC cant get over his ego and adjust. Teams have figured out how to stop his offense and move the ball on his defense. If the Bears had just about any other starting NFL QB we would have lost 40-17.

 

Bring on the trades.

[Ryan_W]

I can't imagine a team not building around a top 5 QB. 5+ years still left at least, he's a pro slider and takes care of himself

yeah what animal said;

looks like the front office was impatient(win sooner rather than later) and when we didn't have luck with our picks we took too many retreads instead of continuing to draft and accumulate picks.

that didn't pan out; but there's no guarantee the picks would have worked either, but they did try something.

to their credit I don't think we have any albatross-long term contracts and our cap is nice next year

our division is spotting us a bunch of free wins, we might wild card every year(even is nothing changes) going forward for quite some time if TB can keep the South teams from sending 2 uncontested

 

[Gannon12]

Get some freaking OL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CWood21]

On 9/18/2018 at 9:07 PM, showtime said:

I'm creating this topic for discussion.  It's not an overreaction to the first two weeks of the season.  I read an article from the Seattle Times where it stated in there that a few GM's believe that Russell Wilson could fetch three first round picks.  Here's an article that says Wilson and Seahawks future uncertain:  https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/report-russell-wilson-could-get-potentially-three-first-round-picks-in-a-trade/

As a neutral observer, I couldn't imagine the Seahawks would be willing to do that deal until the draft order is set.  And I'm skeptical that Russell Wilson would fetch 3 FRPs.  I'd imagine they'd get 2 plus more, but how many teams are going to give up 3 years of FRP and give him that long-term deal?  Any team who acquires him takes on the ~$19M left on his deal, but needs to line up a long term deal.  I'm looking at the current draft order, and the only teams inside the top 10 that might have a need for him are the Giants (at 1).  Everyone else either has an established QB in place or has a young QB they're high on.  Then you get into that next tier you have Buffalo, Denver, Pittsburgh, and Jacksonville as teams who could potentially look to acquire Russell Wilson.

[showtime]

12 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

As a neutral observer, I couldn't imagine the Seahawks would be willing to do that deal until the draft order is set.  And I'm skeptical that Russell Wilson would fetch 3 FRPs.  I'd imagine they'd get 2 plus more, but how many teams are going to give up 3 years of FRP and give him that long-term deal?  Any team who acquires him takes on the ~$19M left on his deal, but needs to line up a long term deal.  I'm looking at the current draft order, and the only teams inside the top 10 that might have a need for him are the Giants (at 1).  Everyone else either has an established QB in place or has a young QB they're high on.  Then you get into that next tier you have Buffalo, Denver, Pittsburgh, and Jacksonville as teams who could potentially look to acquire Russell Wilson.

I agree.  I don't think the Seahawks are going to trade Wilson.  I just found the article interesting because if the team was trying to blow it up and rebuild that would be an interesting route to take.  There's a lot of young talent on this team, but the offensive line is a mess.  I'm not sure the Seahawks have the higher-ups who can evaluate offensive line talent the way they've been able to successfully evaluate talent at other positions.

[showtime]

On 10/9/2018 at 11:24 AM, Gannon12 said:

Get some freaking OL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They've made some efforts, but some of the picks have not worked out.  They really need to make a splash on a offensive lineman via FA or trade.  Kind of like the Rams when they got Andrew Whitworth.  Whitworth has really helped solidify the Rams offensive line - a unit that wasn't particularly very good before he got there.  Someone like that would do wonders and really help the Seahawks offensive line.  It would be a great starting point.

[Gannon12]

Just now, showtime said:

They've made some efforts, but some of the picks have not worked out.  They really need to make a splash on a offensive lineman via FA or trade.  Kind of like the Rams when they got Andrew Whitworth.  Whitworth has really helped solidify the Rams offensive line - a unit that wasn't particularly very good before he got there.  Someone like that would do wonders and really help the Seahawks offensive line.  It would be a great starting point.

The best thing you guys could have done is getting rid of Tom Cable. Unfortunately he is on my team. I see that you guys have made some efforts. It just seems Wilson has to run for his life 80% of the time. Hope you guys can pull it together on OL and give Wilson time because he is pure elite when he has a chance to make a play. I love Wilson and Pete Carroll and gives me something else to watch because my team is garbage.