WEEK 3 GDT - Steelers @ Bucs MNF

[warfelg]

41 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

Aka the latest bust.

Brian Baldwinger (or whatever his last name is) did a good 15 minute video on the breakdown of the Steelers secondary and spent some time talking about the DBs. 

He did a good job talking about how zone is not something Artie does well, along with lack of flats coverage, and Sean Davis struggling in cover 2 half field coverage. He showed how the Chiefs did a flood concept. Ty Hill on the go, Conley on a deep comeback, Hunt with the swing. Burns did what he was supposed to do, he followed Hill and Conley to the top of Conley’s route, then broke off the cover Conley. Problem is Davis didn’t carry and pinch Hill. He broke off with Conley too; then Burns dumped shallow with Hunt, Davis tried to recover, Conley was wide open. 

He talked about how the same thing happened with Kelce’s TD. Both ILBs jumped on the crossing, Davis took the outside WR (covered by Hilton in a cover 4). Left Kelce wide open in the middle. 

He juxtaposed it with the man defense and how Artie gets up in the face of the guy, runs well with him, but again isn’t getting the correct over or under help. 

 

Basically the the evaluation was we use Artie too much in zone, and when we aren’t Davis just isn’t anywhere near where he needs to be. 

[3rivers]

2 hours ago, wwhickok said:

Aka the latest bust.

finally .

once Adeyini is back and healthy, then dupree will be benched and IR'd as soon as he gets a nick or bruise. By then it might be too late if this secondary can't play better. 

@wwhickok btw, thanks for the good news it did cheer me up a bit

@warfelg where can I watch this detailed video you mentioned about Baldinger breaking down our secondary . Why isn't davis getting benched?

[VigilantZombie]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

Brian Baldwinger (or whatever his last name is) did a good 15 minute video on the breakdown of the Steelers secondary and spent some time talking about the DBs. 

He did a good job talking about how zone is not something Artie does well, along with lack of flats coverage, and Sean Davis struggling in cover 2 half field coverage. He showed how the Chiefs did a flood concept. Ty Hill on the go, Conley on a deep comeback, Hunt with the swing. Burns did what he was supposed to do, he followed Hill and Conley to the top of Conley’s route, then broke off the cover Conley. Problem is Davis didn’t carry and pinch Hill. He broke off with Conley too; then Burns dumped shallow with Hunt, Davis tried to recover, Conley was wide open. 

He talked about how the same thing happened with Kelce’s TD. Both ILBs jumped on the crossing, Davis took the outside WR (covered by Hilton in a cover 4). Left Kelce wide open in the middle. 

He juxtaposed it with the man defense and how Artie gets up in the face of the guy, runs well with him, but again isn’t getting the correct over or under help. 

 

Basically the the evaluation was we use Artie too much in zone, and when we aren’t Davis just isn’t anywhere near where he needs to be. 

Great info.  

I think most of us can agree, albeit it a different coordinator and different players (and talent levels), that when we were a Zone Blitz Defense, this defense was great.  The coaching staff and GM have seemingly tried to run more Man Coverage and acquire more talent to do so because of the way the league is trending which I completely understand but I think it's had the opposite result from what was intended and I find myself often wondering if we rebuilt the defense back into a "zone blitz" defense which was the Steelers' bread and butter for years, if we wouldn't see a great improvement in our defense.  Great defenses can overcome even the best of offenses.  Don't believe me? Ask Philadelphia who just put down the Patriots last year.  Like it or not, that was a great defense (at least they played like a great defense).

[warfelg]

1 hour ago, wwhickok said:

Great info.  

I think most of us can agree, albeit it a different coordinator and different players (and talent levels), that when we were a Zone Blitz Defense, this defense was great.  The coaching staff and GM have seemingly tried to run more Man Coverage and acquire more talent to do so because of the way the league is trending which I completely understand but I think it's had the opposite result from what was intended and I find myself often wondering if we rebuilt the defense back into a "zone blitz" defense which was the Steelers' bread and butter for years, if we wouldn't see a great improvement in our defense.  Great defenses can overcome even the best of offenses.  Don't believe me? Ask Philadelphia who just put down the Patriots last year.  Like it or not, that was a great defense (at least they played like a great defense).

Only thing I would disagree with here is going back to 'zone blitz'.  That was a great defense when passing wasn't the way it is now.  Part of the problems with it is because teams aren't running as much, you don't need that many eyes on the ball.  You can't hit people running across the middle, so having a LB sitting there to hit someone isn't as important.  It's all about manning up, taking away those holes, and relying on players making plays.

[CKSteeler]

The biggest issue they are having on defense is getting everyone on the same page. It's a trend for three years now.

The front 7 guys barely had a chance to make plays last week. They were put in poor positions in coverage and the ball was out almost instantly because the backend was such a mess.

So without casting definitive blame for this,  it's the single biggest issue. I guess you have to ask if there are really enough new pieces to justify that level of confusion or whether it's something bigger and an inability on the part of the coaches to get people on the same page. It's not like they're depending on rookies here.

And side rant:

Artie Burns is really soft. And he doesn't have the make-up speed to make up for it. Him trying to jam Tyreek Hill last week was painful to watch. Inside release? Outside release? Didn't matter Burns could barely touch him. Hill is a special athlete, but Burns was a 4.5 corner who did track once (we're supposed to focus on the latter). He looks 4.5 on the field. Unlike Haden, though, he just isn't physical or technically sound. He gets beaten at the line of scrimmage every week. That's the guy they picked to be a man cover corner.

[warfelg]

I would not judge anything about anyone based on facing Hill.

[CKSteeler]

It isn't just about just Hill. He gets bullied or beaten off the line routinely.

[warfelg]

It's honestly not as bad as you make it out to be.  Haden isn't exactly beating guys up on the other side either.  They are playing jam and trail man defense.  You don't need to be a bully on the line for that.  You need good safeties for that.

[3rivers]

4 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

The biggest issue they are having on defense is getting everyone on the same page. It's a trend for three years now.

The front 7 guys barely had a chance to make plays last week. They were put in poor positions in coverage and the ball was out almost instantly because the backend was such a mess.

So without casting definitive blame for this,  it's the single biggest issue. I guess you have to ask if there are really enough new pieces to justify that level of confusion or whether it's something bigger and an inability on the part of the coaches to get people on the same page. It's not like they're depending on rookies here.

And side rant:

Artie Burns is really soft. And he doesn't have the make-up speed to make up for it. Him trying to jam Tyreek Hill last week was painful to watch. Inside release? Outside release? Didn't matter Burns could barely touch him. Hill is a special athlete, but Burns was a 4.5 corner who did track once (we're supposed to focus on the latter). He looks 4.5 on the field. Unlike Haden, though, he just isn't physical or technically sound. He gets beaten at the line of scrimmage every week. That's the guy they picked to be a man cover corner.

I couldn't believe they would ask burns to cover hill that way, and if they did, then that is a bad coaching decision.  99%+ of the CB's won't be able to keep up pace running forwards, never mind a backpedal then turn and run. The other problem on that TD is the safety was late, just terrible. I don't have the all 2-2 but if that was a cover 2 , the safety should see the bench .  Burns had track in his history, so he might have decent speed, but no match for Hill thats for sure.  I have been a critic of burns for a while but it would be nice if the safeties could help out. If the safeties are useless in coverage, might as well blitz them 

Do you see burns as another RD1 wasted pick , joining the recent growing list in the colbert era?

I still think this team can turn it around, but they need to make some changes in conduct and on the field as well as coaching. I am not one of these people that thinks we need bell to succeed either but good coaching yes, and we have room for improvement there. 

Out of everything that is hindering this team, the safety play and tackling are bothering me the most. Anyone else here feel the same about that? Then it's ben and the lack of accuracy for whatever reasons, but he hasn't looked good all year including preseason . The pass rush also is an issue and will be until Adeyini returns. 

[armsteeld]

Lack of communication is a scapegoat for lack of talent. We have no passrush from the OLBs unless they're schemed to get free. Watt is physically weak and doesn't have the ability to beat the OTs and gets sealed by TEs which frees up pulling OL to get free releases to the 2nd level. Dupree is useless. No other way to put it. Bostic and Williams are battling hard in the middle of our defense.

Who is our FS? Sean Davis who has almost always played around the LOS. He has no awareness/smarts to play deep. Our coaches are dumb when it comes to DBs. We haven't developed 1 DB since Tomlin has been head coach. That's quite pathetic! I don't know if they have scouts for positions or if they just scout regions but change needs to happen. Safeties are not hard to evaluate. I think it's time to see what Marcus Allen can do as Sean Davis gives me no confidence when it comes to coverage.

[warfelg]

58 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

Lack of communication is a scapegoat for lack of talent. We have no passrush from the OLBs unless they're schemed to get free. Watt is physically weak and doesn't have the ability to beat the OTs and gets sealed by TEs which frees up pulling OL to get free releases to the 2nd level. Dupree is useless. No other way to put it. Bostic and Williams are battling hard in the middle of our defense.

Who is our FS? Sean Davis who has almost always played around the LOS. He has no awareness/smarts to play deep. Our coaches are dumb when it comes to DBs. We haven't developed 1 DB since Tomlin has been head coach. That's quite pathetic! I don't know if they have scouts for positions or if they just scout regions but change needs to happen. Safeties are not hard to evaluate. I think it's time to see what Marcus Allen can do as Sean Davis gives me no confidence when it comes to coverage.

As far as the scouting:

as far as I know they use a service to handle local level scouting, then have regional. So regional scouts go to games if a report from a service seems impressive enough. 

 

Ill use AB as an example. A service wrote up something. The scout read it, saw things about moves in the open field, hands, and short area burst. Goes to watch. Passes it up to a national scout. They go and watch. Then it ends up with the head scout. Each level adds to it. 

Usually the services target with based on what you are looking for. Some teams just want the best you find (Baltimore, Philadelphia, LA Rams). Teams that ask for that, and they do really well. 

[Dcash4]

Forgot to comment this earlier in the week, but I am absolutely shocked Jordan Berry is still here. He is an easy scape goat at a position that is largely easy to fill in a weeks notice. You could have cut him and at least left a feeling around the locker room of “you dont do your job, you’re not here”. 

I think the only way they cut him this week would be if he literally punted the ball backwards multiple times because they will use short week as an excuse. 

It’s such a Buck Showaltery thing to do...but it could have been used as some sort of message. 

[3rivers]

burns is benched official.  Do they try to trade him with bell? 

[Chieferific]

29 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

burns is benched official.  Do they try to trade him with bell? 

I see another obsession on the horizon. 

[August4th]

be nice if the offense has a great start tonight