DreamKid Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 9 hours ago, Danand said: And apparently you can't comprehend that you compared apples and oranges. The encouraging plays on limited regular season snaps is what we hope will be something we see more of, but so far they aren't contributors. A UDFA in Peanut has been an impact player and outplayed his draft position. Tuys Bowser has not played up to his draft position and if he truly was good enough, he would most likely see the field more. For all the ability Tim Williams has, there is something holding him back. I can't see why it is a thing you get so worked up about. It isn't apples to oranges Dan. It's young recently acquired players on the team. And I put forward the premise of them being in a different situation to see if you would still apply the same reasoning that led you to label Bowser and Williams near busts. Knowing that Orlando Brown Jr can play, and you were a major advocate for him pre draft, would you consider him "nearing bust territory" if he was in a similar situation to Tyus Bowser? You would actually just assume that despite playing great in the preseason, and excelling on limited regular snaps- that he was a bust just because he wasn't starting over James Hurst and Ronnie Stanley? Knowing Harbaugh's tendency to roll with Veterans? Your reasoning implies that our coaching staff is incapable of errors. That they will always field the best players and if a player has value/can bring impact - they will make use of them. Which is odd, because everyone knows that isn't true. You also are equating playing time to a confirmation of ability, which again we all know isn't true. By your logic if we drafted Michael Thomas(Or any great player) and didn't start him over Veterans on the team, he would be "nearing bust territory". If that's really how you choose to analyze players on the team, fine. I feel it's a severely flawed approach though, and it can pollute conversations about other aspects of the club as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 13 minutes ago, drd23 said: I've seen a few people on twitter/draft websites argue this - by the time the draft rolls around he might get into the "so underrated he's overrated" category Maybe, but I don't think he's going to blow up the combine. On top of that he's another production quandary for the analytics heads. ATP I can't see him going in the first 40-50 Picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danand Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 24 minutes ago, DreamKid said: It isn't apples to oranges Dan. It's young recently acquired players on the team. And I put forward the premise of them being in a different situation to see if you would still apply the same reasoning that led you to label Bowser and Williams near busts. Knowing that Orlando Brown Jr can play, and you were a major advocate for him pre draft, would you consider him "nearing bust territory" if he was in a similar situation to Tyus Bowser? You would actually just assume that despite playing great in the preseason, and excelling on limited regular snaps- that he was a bust just because he wasn't starting over James Hurst and Ronnie Stanley? Knowing Harbaugh's tendency to roll with Veterans? Your reasoning implies that our coaching staff is incapable of errors. That they will always field the best players and if a player has value/can bring impact - they will make use of them. Which is odd, because everyone knows that isn't true. You also are equating playing time to a confirmation of ability, which again we all know isn't true. By your logic if we drafted Michael Thomas(Or any great player) and didn't start him over Veterans on the team, he would be "nearing bust territory". If that's really how you choose to analyze players on the team, fine. I feel it's a severely flawed approach though, and it can pollute conversations about other aspects of the club as a result. My logic says, that you compared rookies to second year players - rookies where most of them already have made a greater impact than Bowser and Williams. And we might just have different expectations when it comes to draft picks. It might be our coaching staff who can't figure out to play Bowser and Williams and use them to their strengths, but nevertheless, if both Bowser and Williams doesn't make an impact next season, we are down to using a 2. round and 3. round draft pick for 1. year worth of play. Maxx Williams is in the same category but he has somewhat managed to carve out a role. Kamalei Correa is similar. I don't think any of us had hoped for that production from 2. round picks. What you aim for is your 1. round are elite talents, 2. round pick are high quality players, 3. round picks are solid/rotational players, 4. round picks are rotational/ST core players, 5-6-7 round picks are depth players and special teamers. Bowser and Williams are in depth and special teamers territory right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, Danand said: My logic says, that you compared rookies to second year players - rookies where most of them already have made a greater impact than Bowser and Williams. ^^^Yea, you just aren't getting it. Purposely or because you genuinely don't understand. Either way, fine. It's not worth rehashing. 8 minutes ago, Danand said: And we might just have different expectations when it comes to draft picks. No. I'm sure it's largely the same, if not entirely. I just can't cosign the degradation of players with the label of "bust", unless I feel they are actually bad players. We've gummed up the Draft Thread enough with this. We can move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 3 hours ago, Danand said: My logic says, that you compared rookies to second year players - rookies where most of them already have made a greater impact than Bowser and Williams. And we might just have different expectations when it comes to draft picks. It might be our coaching staff who can't figure out to play Bowser and Williams and use them to their strengths, but nevertheless, if both Bowser and Williams doesn't make an impact next season, we are down to using a 2. round and 3. round draft pick for 1. year worth of play. Maxx Williams is in the same category but he has somewhat managed to carve out a role. Kamalei Correa is similar. I don't think any of us had hoped for that production from 2. round picks. What you aim for is your 1. round are elite talents, 2. round pick are high quality players, 3. round picks are solid/rotational players, 4. round picks are rotational/ST core players, 5-6-7 round picks are depth players and special teamers. Bowser and Williams are in depth and special teamers territory right now. I know I missed out of all the fun, but I will say this. I think you’re beginning to write these guys off too soon. If it were another position I might agree with your take, but for some odd reasoning with our OLB, we’ve seemingly always had almost no rotation there. What’s more young guys seem to suffocate on the bench or get played out of position until the final year of their deal (Smith, Correa, Kruger, etc.) We’ve clearly seen sacks and pressures from Bowser and Williams this season when they’ve played. Not sure what you’re expectations are for OLBs drafted under this regime. The Ravens tend to value an OLB that can stop the run more than the pass, if they can’t do that then they don’t see the field- except the occasional passing down. More than likely Williams and Bowser will have huge contract production years when they are finally unleashed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 Don't sleep on those Shrine Game prospects- Nice piece about Kenny Young. https://thedraftnetwork.com/2018/09/14/you-should-have-drafted-kenny-young/ TDN Mock- 22. Baltimore Ravens Kelvin Harmon, WR, N.C. State I do understand why the Ravens chose to not pass as much as they did down the stretch this season. They were making life as easy as they could for rookie quarterback Lamar Jackson, and that meant allowing him to win where he most comfortably does: running the ball. But Jackson will need to progress as a passer to stick around in the NFL, and to make things easier on the punishment his body might take, too. For that, he’ll need a go-to wide receiver that will be there as long as he is. That is Kelvin Harmon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 On 1/3/2019 at 3:16 AM, berlin calling said: give me Cody Ford in the 1st and Juan Thornhill in the 3rd. Ford is playing RT but should be the heir to Yanda, who if i'm not mistaking took the exact same route form college tackle to guard in the pros. I like where your heads at with Ford. He actually started as a Guard at Oklahoma, so no need to worry about the transition. His ability at Tackle makes him extra valuable too. It looks like we're set for a good amount of years with Stanley-Brown Jr., and Eluemanor surprised some as a fill in LT. Senat is lurking. Injuries happen though and versatility is always key. Skura is trash as a starter. Hurst only has one above average trait(Pulling). Yanda is only getting older. IOL is a massive need for this club. Building a strong offensive line is incredibly important as we transition to a new QBOTF. Both for Lamar Jackson's unimpeded opportunity at success/growth, and fostering a healthy situation for another young QB to walk into should Lamar fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.10.E Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 You can sell me on any OL man. Hell I'd do what we did with TEs last year. 1st and 3rd round OL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, M.10.E said: You can sell me on any OL man. Hell I'd do what we did with TEs last year. 1st and 3rd round OL. High End G/T and a Starter Caliber Center? Wouldn't surprise me and I wouldn't be mad. Some fans might not find it sexy, but a functioning offense as a result of the improvements will shut them up. It's been proven that the line is more important to success in the run game than the runner, and the benefits of superior pass protection are obvious. The Chargers aren't going away, Chris Jones and the Chiefs aren't going away, Geno Atkins is in our division. Aaron Donald exists. We need a stronger line to keep growing as a contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.10.E Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 21 minutes ago, DreamKid said: High End G/T and a Starter Caliber Center? Wouldn't surprise me and I wouldn't be mad. Some fans might not find it sexy, but a functioning offense as a result of the improvements will shut them up. It's been proven that the line is more important to success in the run game than the runner, and the benefits of superior pass protection are obvious. The Chargers aren't going away, Chris Jones and the Chiefs aren't going away, Geno Atkins is in our division. Aaron Donald exists. We need a stronger line to keep growing as a contender. Giving a young QB time in the pocket is HUGE. We saw Sunday what happens when you don't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danand Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Seems like my constant nudging the past years is finally paying off Cody Ford is a player I have my eye on as well. I believe it was Diamondbull who pointed towards Bozeman potentially moving to center, but if he doesn't I have that position as my first need to fill with an elite talent. IF Yanda retires, I think we would get a huge shock when we figured out how important he is on that oline as a whole and not just position wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 If Bozeman can't even compete with Skura for C right now I don't really have much hope he will in the near future. If Yanda retires, our OL goes from above-average to one of the worst in the league instantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavensTillIDie Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 15 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: If Bozeman can't even compete with Skura for C right now I don't really have much hope he will in the near future. If Yanda retires, our OL goes from above-average to one of the worst in the league instantly. If Bozeman, a rookie late round draft pick, can't compete with a 2 year starter on the offensive line now, that means there's no hope for the future? That makes no sense. Give the kid a full offseason in an NFL weight room and I'm sure the competition will open up at training camp next year. People seem to forget Bozeman was one of the best interior linemen in college his senior season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.10.E Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 If Yanda retires I'll cry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drd23 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, RavensTillIDie said: If Bozeman, a rookie late round draft pick, can't compete with a 2 year starter on the offensive line now, that means there's no hope for the future? That makes no sense. Give the kid a full offseason in an NFL weight room and I'm sure the competition will open up at training camp next year. People seem to forget Bozeman was one of the best interior linemen in college his senior season. This, plus the fact that Harbaugh openly admits that he doesn't trust rookies in part because the CBA means they don't get the practice they need early in their NFL careers. Writing off Bozeman now because Skura (who had been with the team last year and already started games) was given the starting job is silly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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