Jump to content

2nd Best Cornerback in the League?

mdonnelly21

By mdonnelly21
in NFL Comparisons

...  

89 members have voted

  1. 1. 2nd best Cornerback in the league?

    • A.J Bouye
      4
    • Desmond Trufant
      1
    • Casey Hayward Jr
      7
    • Xavier Rhodes
      22
    • Patrick Peterson
      23
    • Richard Sherman
      0
    • Darius Slay Jr
      8
    • Jimmy Smith
      1
    • Aquib Talib
      0
    • Chris Harris Jr
      4
    • Marshon Lattimore
      6
    • Marcus Peters
      5
    • Other
      8

Recommended Posts

Calvert28

Calvert28

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, detroitlions72003 said:

A coverage sack is a funny thing isn't it. Can you name someone on the Lions DLine the past 4 games? If u say Ansah then it seems u r a stat watcher and not a game watcher

So now we are splitting hairs on the different kinds of sacks there are? Reaching much? Funny the NFL hasn't picked up on this kind of significant stat.

They could point out which teams get sacks, and then which teams that get sacks because of a great secondary. Chido and Byron Jones have been playing as well as in duo in the league, but I'm not giving them all the credit for DLaw's sacks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nnivolcm

Nnivolcm

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

So now we are splitting hairs on the different kinds of sacks there are? Reaching much? Funny the NFL hasn't picked up on this kind of significant stat.

They could point out which teams get sacks, and then which teams that get sacks because of a great secondary. Chido and Byron Jones have been playing as well as in duo in the league, but I'm not giving them all the credit for DLaw's sacks.

Is it harder for a secondary to keep targets covered for 2 or 8 seconds? We're not splitting hairs. Just adding context. Not all sacks are the same. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Calvert28

Calvert28

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Nnivolcm said:

Is it harder for a secondary to keep targets covered for 2 or 8 seconds? We're not splitting hairs. Just adding context. Not all sacks are the same. 

Ok fine, I agree not all come about under circumstances. But Lawrence is a great pass rusher regardless of whos in the secondary and as I said, our duo is playing as good as anyone right now. But the success is a combination of things. And not all of those sacks come from covering for 8 seconds. I know they say the passing window before risking a sack is the 3 second clock but this happens with multiple teams. Hell even Dak has held onto it for way too long which has resulted in sacks even with WR's being open. Not everything or even the vast majority are the result of great secondary play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
lomaxgrUK

lomaxgrUK

Posted
Posted
On 23/09/2018 at 6:41 AM, JustAnotherFan said:

Oh and to answer OP, Harris.

I love CHJ, but he's not the 2nd best CB in the league. He was excellent in the Chiefs game for the most part, but his play so far this year has been patchy at best.

I think a lot of that has to do with the departure of Talib. CHJ just doesn't have the athletic ability and/or size to be a true #1 CB. His ability to play well on the outside and at a very high level in the slot makes him a fantastic player to have on your team but not good enough for a conversation like this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jakuvious

Jakuvious

Posted
Posted
On 10/4/2018 at 6:51 AM, Calvert28 said:

The Lions right now are 4th in sacks in the league. Lets not pretend they're the Raiders.

Sacks do not mean they have a good pass rush. 10 of their 13 sacks are from their LBs despite running a 4-3 defense. They're getting there by blitzing which they can do because of their secondary. Slay absolutely gets less pass rush help than most of the guys in this thread. In previous years they've been below average in sack production as well, since it isn't just a measurement of this year anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
RandyMossIsBoss

RandyMossIsBoss

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

 

CBs are essentially like OL when it comes to ranking them, it's mostly reputation. Now we do have INTs and PDs, which are a good measure of CB play to an extent, where as OL literally only have sacks allowed (which isn't official), but we all know the better a CB is, the less thrown at he will be, which is why INTs and PDs can only take you so far. RBs, QBs, WRs, DLs, their statistics give you a pretty damn good picture of their play. A perfect picture? No, stats will always have their limits, but it's enough for those positions that I think a pretty valid opinion can generally be built from just watching a handful of their games and pairing that with their numbers. I watched every pass snap of about 7 or 8 CBs last year... and I only feel truly confident ranking those 8 CBs. Simply just a tricky position to examine, just like with OL, it's all about preventing plays rather than making plays. which is why I personally will always value PFFs rankings of CBs/OL, a site that claim to review every snap (crucial for position where they need to be judged off of not making mistakes), over any one person/site (unless they too claim they reviewed all the film).... and this is from an endorsement for PFF, but I believe they watch all the snaps, which alone gives a ton more weight to their opinion on positions like CB and OL.

 

To answer your question, Ramsey is a stud CB prospect who was really good as a rookie and then was the face of the league's best defense in year 2. He had solid numbers (4 INTs, 17 PDs), and good PFF grade. He only bolstered his rep with trash talk he backed up. Meanwhile PP has been on a struggling team and defense for a few years now, and had just 1 INT last year, and a much lower PFF grade. He also held the top spot for a good while, people get bored. That is why Ramsey has become the consensus #1 CB. Should he actually be? That's another story. I certainly think he has a good argument for it, but from my review of the 2017 tape, PP hasn't slipped up at all, and factor in his much tougher responsibilities as a corner that shadows #1s (Ramsey did occasionally, most CBs don't at all), and more importantly the fact that he has been doing it for a long time, I definitely believe him to be #1 (well, #1 out of the 8 CBs I looked at, which included Rhodes, Ramsey, Lattimore... Notably no Heyward).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Calvert28

Calvert28

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Jakuvious said:

Sacks do not mean they have a good pass rush. 10 of their 13 sacks are from their LBs despite running a 4-3 defense. They're getting there by blitzing which they can do because of their secondary. Slay absolutely gets less pass rush help than most of the guys in this thread. In previous years they've been below average in sack production as well, since it isn't just a measurement of this year anyway.

If you wanna say that then sure. But a team with 13 sacks (correct me if I'm wrong) is still getting to the QB more then a team with like 5 sacks am I right? But the statement about if Slay just had the same amount of help with their pass rush as some of these other guys. I mean it's a bit out there kind of argument when they are still getting help even if it's not Jags type good. More pressure on the QB is always beneficial, but the statement just came across like the pass rush is just that bad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
RandyMossIsBoss

RandyMossIsBoss

Posted
Posted
On 10/3/2018 at 5:33 PM, Duluther said:

I’m a huge Rhodes fan and wouldn’t trade him for nearly any player in the NFL... love his physical play.

 

Even if other Vikings fans don’t agree with me, though, I have to say he’s nowhere near the top 2 at this point. He’s been average this year at best. He has a history of too many DPIs and lets up too many slants and hooks. I still wouldn’t trade him for anyone because of his tackling, press ability, strength, and upside on any given play.... but I’m telling you that he doesn’t deserve this over some of the other choices.

Yeah he is off to a rough start, relatively speaking. I have him at allowing 10 catches on 18 targets for 112 yards and a TD through 4 games. Also 3 coverage related penalties. Considering he followed around #1s in 3 out of the 4 games (Adams, Benjamin (not saying much...) and Cooks), those numbers really aren't bad, but definitely not up to his standards. He was destroyed by Cooks, I marked him with 7 poor coverages. 2 catches on targets for 32 yards + 2 defensive holdings, which is surprising considering he handled equally shifty AB last season just fine (3 catches on 8 targets for 20ish yards, more notably just 3 bad coverages). He looks stiff out there honestly, wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't right to begin with that game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...