J-ALL-DAY Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Chrissooner49er said: Cam hasn't looked like the Cam we expect... Definitely. He has taken too many hits and has suffered too many injuries. May never return to form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 I think super highly of our team and our chances these next two years. I think we are a playoff team this year. I have advocated for Antonio brown, talib, Marcus peters and other top flight veterans who would accelerate this thing. With that being said, I do not want to trade for Ramsey. I don't mind giving up draft picks but I don't think we can afford to pay him after all the contracts we have given out. I agree with @Forge unfortunately. We just gave Dee Ford 5 years 87 million and Kwon is one of the highest paid lbs in the game. We could just tag Ramsey twice and have him for 3 years after this one, but it doesn't feel like he would be happy with that and the last thing we want is an unhappy Ramsey. Has he even been given permission to seek other trades? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2lamanaki Posted September 17, 2019 Author Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, J-ALL-DAY said: For sure, but how often does THIS type of an elite talent become available? In the last 25 years, Deion Sanders, Champ Bailey, and Darrelle Revis all switched teams in their 20s while at the top of their game. In addition, Rod Woodson, Aeneas Williams, Ty Law, Charles Woodson, Richard Sherman (and undoubtedly others) all switched teams in their early 30s and played at high levels with their new team. That's just the Hall of Famers list at this one position. It's not including guys like Asante Samuel, Antonio Cromartie, Brandon Flowers, Jonathan Joseph, Casey Hayward, Aqib Talib, Vontae Davis, etc., etc., etc. who all switched teams in their prime and played at a high level (Pro Bowl or All-pro) with their second team. These guys are available each and every year. It's not as infrequent as one might think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said: In the last 25 years, Deion Sanders, Champ Bailey, and Darrelle Revis all switched teams in their 20s while at the top of their game. In addition, Rod Woodson, Aeneas Williams, Ty Law, Charles Woodson, Richard Sherman (and undoubtedly others) all switched teams in their early 30s and played at high levels with their new team. That's just the Hall of Famers list at this one position. It's not including guys like Asante Samuel, Antonio Cromartie, Brandon Flowers, Jonathan Joseph, Casey Hayward, Aqib Talib, Vontae Davis, etc., etc., etc. who all switched teams in their prime and played at a high level (Pro Bowl or All-pro) with their second team. These guys are available each and every year. It's not as infrequent as one might think. Early 30s after playing 7 or 8 seasons is one thing, not many like him in his absolute peak still on his rookie deal. I mean Deion is definitely one, even though he had just completed his rookie deal with ATL. Revis/Champ are good examples as well. So yeah, still don't think a talent of this level is available often, especially in a big position of need going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Forge said: Sounds about right but I'm willing to go more than just a 2021 5th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 Just now, J-ALL-DAY said: Sounds about right but I'm willing to go more than just a 2021 5th. Honestly, it's not bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John232 Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 Jags were also big on Solly T. Could possibly be someone to add to the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, Forge said: Honestly, it's not bad. At all. But it is early so no one probably wants to put out the best offer yet. So Cam out with a foot injury and Brees out for six weeks with a thumb injury. The Bucs may have a shot at this. That defense looks really solid so Winston just has to play a solid game manager style and they will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2lamanaki Posted September 17, 2019 Author Share Posted September 17, 2019 33 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Early 30s after playing 7 or 8 seasons is one thing, not many like him in his absolute peak still on his rookie deal. I mean Deion is definitely one, even though he had just completed his rookie deal with ATL. Revis/Champ are good examples as well. So yeah, still don't think a talent of this level is available often, especially in a big position of need going forward. No, once in a generation talent comes once in a generation, so by definition, only one of those players in those generations exist. And for the last 3 - Sanders, Bailey, Revis - they were all traded or switched teams in their prime. So it's basically remained true that once in a generation talent is often available for the right price. That said, "on his rookie deal" is an odd qualifier when he has a $13M guaranteed cap hit coming next year (8th highest at the position in the NFL) which would be the 4th highest on the team next year. And he is going to want a contract that is significantly higher per year immediately. I'm not too excited about his "rookie deal." But I am very intrigued by the concept of adding Ramsey to the team, because he is a top talent. I'm just not going to do it because "players of his stature" aren't available often or because of his "rookie deal." The only reason I'd add him is with the expectation that Sherman is gone at the end of the year, because there would be no reason for him to stick around any longer than 2019 in a scenario where Ramsey is added. Then moving forward, we don't have a CB need until we lose Witherspoon at the end of 2020 (as we won't be able to afford him with Ramsey on the team). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 38 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said: No, once in a generation talent comes once in a generation, so by definition, only one of those players in those generations exist. And for the last 3 - Sanders, Bailey, Revis - they were all traded or switched teams in their prime. So it's basically remained true that once in a generation talent is often available for the right price. That said, "on his rookie deal" is an odd qualifier when he has a $13M guaranteed cap hit coming next year (8th highest at the position in the NFL) which would be the 4th highest on the team next year. And he is going to want a contract that is significantly higher per year immediately. I'm not too excited about his "rookie deal." But I am very intrigued by the concept of adding Ramsey to the team, because he is a top talent. I'm just not going to do it because "players of his stature" aren't available often or because of his "rookie deal." The only reason I'd add him is with the expectation that Sherman is gone at the end of the year, because there would be no reason for him to stick around any longer than 2019 in a scenario where Ramsey is added. Then moving forward, we don't have a CB need until we lose Witherspoon at the end of 2020 (as we won't be able to afford him with Ramsey on the team). Okay, even if you think three corners of his talent have become available, that is still rare. It's not once in a generation but definitely falls into the category of "how often does a elite talent of this caliber become available?" The rookie deal aside, just someone on his original deal. Unlike Revis who was available after signing a big deal. And LIS, we could draft a corner in the first round the next 10 years and not get anyone of Ramsey's caliber. Even if Sherman isn't gone, you could make his transition to safety. That would be the time to do it with Ramsey on the roster. But if the Jags really want two first rounders? This probably is a moot point anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 3 hours ago, oldman9er said: I would then ask you to list the NFC teams that you feel we can not be better than or beat in the postseason... which happens to be a long ways away.. which means some teams get better and some worse by December. This is nearly impossible at the current point in time because I don't know how good we are yet. Obviously, I'm extremely happy with this start, and I do predict that we will start the season 3-0. At the start of the season, I would have said that we were behind the Rams, Cowboys, Eagles, Saints, Vikings, Bears, probably the Packers, and maaaaaaaaaaaaybe the Falcons / Panthers (I may have put these teams in the same tier, but maybe with a slight edge toward the top of the tier, if you know what I mean). I would have put us on par with the seahawks But after two games, the Bears' offense looks horrific. Is that real? I don't know. I think we could match up with what I'm seeing right now, but if Trubisky ever gets going (not holding my breath, most will tell you I wasn't a fan of his coming out), then yeah, I think we may lag behind them (though I'm also questioning Nagy as a coach). Teams like the Falcons / Vikings have looked good one game and terrible in another, so I'm not sure which is which yet. The packers defense looks much better than I thought, though outside of that starting burst in week 2, I think the offense has yet to really click. The cowboys look legit. The saints could be in trouble without Brees, but if Teddy B gets them 3-3 in those 6 games, I think that they will be alright, and I like them more than us with Brees in the lineup. Rams are the Rams, and I don't think we are there yet. Panthers look pretty bad all things considered, and based on what I have seen, I would put us above them right now (and Cam is hurt now). One of the things for me is that I'm absolutely terrified of this Staley injury. The chasm between he and Skule is so huge. And it's so much bigger than just hte offensive line. This effects so much. Maybe Jimmy G starts getting hit more. Maybe we start going 3 and out more (though in fairness, we can't go three and out less) and lose minutes off our TOP in future games which puts more stress on a defense that is already nursing some injuries. Maybe we can no longer run to all areas of the field and have to become predictable in our playcalling. Maybe we can't get as aggressive with multiple receiver sets because we have to carry Toilolo in line to chip on Skule's side. I said on the podcast that an injury to the offensive line could absolutely derail this season, and I meant it. Over the course of these weeks, we get: Heyward / TJ Watt MG Clowney Chandler Jones (twice) Aaron Donald (okay, Staley doesn't completely impact that other than in a peripheral sort of way) Ryan Kerrigan That is a beastly slate of edge rushers to be concerned with. And looking at the opponents...The Cards are more competitive than I thought. The browns would have been a good matchup even with Staley. The seahawks are a good matchup, though I would have given us the edge at home. Would I be super surprised if we lost 5 of the 8? Not at all. And the end slate of games for us is pretty brutal (Saints / Ravens / Rams / Seahawks / Falcons). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2lamanaki Posted September 17, 2019 Author Share Posted September 17, 2019 28 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Even if Sherman isn't gone, you could make his transition to safety. That would be the time to do it with Ramsey on the roster. With what non-existent cap space are you using to pay Ramsey and Sherman over $23M, including to pay one of them to play a spot they never played before? Or are you getting rid of Garoppolo, Buckner, Staley, Richburg, Ford, or Alexander instead? Because even with cutting McKinnon, we still need to free up space to merely fit Ramsey onto the squad, and that says nothing of the 3rd round and beyond draft picks or any other spots where we need to upgrade via free agency. Which means next year you're bringing back the same receivers and offensive linemen in 2020 and not replacing Armstead/Blair/Day on the DL with anything more than UDFAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John232 Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said: With what non-existent cap space are you using to pay Ramsey and Sherman over $23M, including to pay one of them to play a spot they never played before? Or are you getting rid of Garoppolo, Buckner, Staley, Richburg, Ford, or Alexander instead? Because even with cutting McKinnon, we still need to free up space to merely fit Ramsey onto the squad, and that says nothing of the 3rd round and beyond draft picks or any other spots where we need to upgrade via free agency. Which means next year you're bringing back the same receivers and offensive linemen in 2020 and not replacing Armstead/Blair/Day on the DL with anything more than UDFAs. John Lynch and his marvelous jawline and thick neck will get all of those players to restructure. Believe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 Chiefs seem to be out. Money problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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