GamedayGuru Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 38 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: Chris Thompson is still averaging 7.6 yards per touch since the start of 2017. Idk, all I did was copy and paste an article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 3 hours ago, jrry32 said: Why do certain posters keep talking about how Kamara started his career? Kamara isn't competing with the rookie/sophomore versions of Gurley, Bell, Johnson, Elliott, etc. Alvin is gaining yards and scoring TDs at a higher rate per touch than all those guys. And if you want to use the eye test, you could put Alvin in their place and he would out produce them but there's no way you could put those guys in Alvin's place and have them produce like he has. Alvin Kamara's production makes him the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 1 minute ago, VanS said: Alvin is gaining yards and scoring TDs at a higher rate per touch than all those guys. And if you want to use the eye test, you could put Alvin in their place and he would out produce them but there's no way you could put those guys in Alvin's place and have them produce like he has. Alvin Kamara's production makes him the best. Laughable. I already showed how laughable that claim is. Guys like Pierre Thomas, Darren Sproles, and Reggie Bush put up some monster receiving seasons in that system. Kamara's receiving stats are a byproduct of that system. If you put Gurley in that system, he'd put up 80 to 100 receptions. It doesn't mean that Kamara isn't a hell of a receiving HB, but it does mean that you are BSing when you claim you couldn't put the other top all-purpose HBs in that system and see them produce like he has. This is just like your Myles Garrett hot take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Laughable. I already showed how laughable that claim is. Guys like Pierre Thomas, Darren Sproles, and Reggie Bush put up some monster receiving seasons in that system. Kamara's receiving stats are a byproduct of that system. If you put Gurley in that system, he'd put up 80 to 100 receptions. It doesn't mean that Kamara isn't a hell of a receiving HB, but it does mean that you are BSing when you claim you couldn't put the other top all-purpose HBs in that system and see them produce like he has. This is just like your Myles Garrett hot take. I ain't a stat guy but I'm pretty sure Alvin's rate of breaking tackles was near the top of the league last year. You can't say Alvin is the product of a system if he's among the league leaders when it comes to yards after contact. Alvin is creating his own production moreso than it being a system giving him easy yards. His yards gained after contact is proof of that. All you gotta do is watch Alvin play to see he is the actual system. He's the one who takes those short dump offs and screen passes and takes them farther than the blocking or scheme designed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamedayGuru Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 16 minutes ago, VanS said: I ain't a stat guy but I'm pretty sure Alvin's rate of breaking tackles was near the top of the league last year. You can't say Alvin is the product of a system if he's among the league leaders when it comes to yards after contact. Alvin is creating his own production moreso than it being a system giving him easy yards. His yards gained after contact is proof of that. All you gotta do is watch Alvin play to see he is the actual system. He's the one who takes those short dump offs and screen passes and takes them farther than the blocking or scheme designed. This, the saints offense runs different now than it did back then with Pierre and sproles. And yes I believe Alvin lead the league in forced and broken tackles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 16 minutes ago, VanS said: I ain't a stat guy but I'm pretty sure Alvin's rate of breaking tackles was near the top of the league last year. You can't say Alvin is the product of a system if he's among the league leaders when it comes to yards after contact. Alvin is creating his own production moreso than it being a system giving him easy yards. His yards gained after contact is proof of that. All you gotta do is watch Alvin play to see he is the actual system. He's the one who takes those short dump offs and screen passes and takes them farther than the blocking or scheme designed. Except he's not. Here's what I said earlier: "Look at 2013 when Darren Sproles and Pierre Thomas each had 70+ receptions. Sproles had 86 receptions in 2011. Reggie Bush had 88 receptions as a rookie in 2006. It has always been the offense." Kamara isn't the system. Kamara isn't creating his own production moreso than the system is giving him easy yards. Drew Brees is the system. Kamara is simply playing his role. He's playing it damn well, but it's not something we haven't seen previously. The system and Brees are creating for Kamara in the passing game. I'm not saying he's a product of the system. He's a damn good HB. I'm saying his level of production is a product of the system. Gurley, David Johnson, and Le'Veon would be putting up the same receiving numbers in that system. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 1 minute ago, GamedayGuru said: This, the saints offense runs different now than it did back then with Pierre and sproles. And yes I believe Alvin lead the league in forced and broken tackles I'm calling BS. In 2016, the Saints lacked a good HB in the passing game. However, their top 3 HBs (Ingram, Hightower, and Cadet) still combined for 108 receptions, 800 yards, and 9 TDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Except he's not. Here's what I said earlier: "Look at 2013 when Darren Sproles and Pierre Thomas each had 70+ receptions. Sproles had 86 receptions in 2011. Reggie Bush had 88 receptions as a rookie in 2006. It has always been the offense." Kamara isn't the system. Kamara isn't creating his own production moreso than the system is giving him easy yards. Drew Brees is the system. Kamara is simply playing his role. He's playing it damn well, but it's not something we haven't seen previously. The system and Brees are creating for Kamara in the passing game. I'm not saying he's a product of the system. He's a damn good HB. I'm saying his level of production is a product of the system. Gurley, David Johnson, and Le'Veon would be putting up the same receiving numbers in that system. How can a guy who is among the league leaders in broken tackles and yards after contact be the product of the system? You obviously don't watch Kamara play to say something like this. The guy is mesmerizing to watch because of how many Houdini plays he has every Sunday. He's breaking tackles and gaining extra yards than were designed by the play better than anyone in the NFL right now. I just think you don't like Kamara. You been throwing shots at him since his emergence last year. I was hoping the game against the Rams where he made your entire defense look silly on those short little dump off passes would convince you of his greatness. Oh well. I guess it'll take Alvin putting on a Gold Jacket before you give him any credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 26 minutes ago, GamedayGuru said: This, the saints offense runs different now than it did back then with Pierre and sproles. And yes I believe Alvin lead the league in forced and broken tackles Your stats lie! Half of Kamara’s broken tackles last year came against the Rams, so that shouldn’t count! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 28 minutes ago, jrry32 said: I'm not saying he's a product of the system. He's a damn good HB. 19 minutes ago, VanS said: How can a guy who is among the league leaders in broken tackles and yards after contact be the product of the system? 19 minutes ago, VanS said: You obviously don't watch Kamara play to say something like this. 19 minutes ago, VanS said: I just think you don't like Kamara. Lol, and this is why this thread is a joke. Don’t like the argument being thrown? Just change it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 35 minutes ago, VanS said: I just think you don't like Kamara. Feel free to tell me who my starting HB is in my Expansion Sim: Awfully odd that I chose to draft a guy that I don't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 I'll just throw this out there, and we'll see if it sounds rational. Maybe it isn't that I don't like Kamara. Maybe it's that I think you're overrating him at this juncture. Kind of like how I have nothing against Lattimore and Thomas, but I push back when Saints fans have told me that those two are the best at their positions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 1 hour ago, jrry32 said: I'm calling BS. In 2016, the Saints lacked a good HB in the passing game. However, their top 3 HBs (Ingram, Hightower, and Cadet) still combined for 108 receptions, 800 yards, and 9 TDs. Saints do run a slightly different system now. But it's actually probably better for HB receiving numbers than it was before. Truth is, the Saints system does grant a better opportunity for HBs to rack up stats than most others. But a guy like Kamara isn't just a product of plug and play, he's a legit HB that also benefits from the system. He's what Reggie Bush should have been, and what Sproles was at times. Imo, he's the best we've had thus far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said: Saints do run a slightly different system now. But it's actually probably better for HB receiving numbers than it was before. Truth is, the Saints system does grant a better opportunity for HBs to rack up stats than most others. But a guy like Kamara isn't just a product of plug and play, he's a legit HB that also benefits from the system. He's what Reggie Bush should have been, and what Sproles was at times. Imo, he's the best we've had thus far. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 44 minutes ago, jrry32 said: I'll just throw this out there, and we'll see if it sounds rational. Maybe it isn't that I don't like Kamara. Maybe it's that I think you're overrating him at this juncture. Kind of like how I have nothing against Lattimore and Thomas, but I push back when Saints fans have told me that those two are the best at their positions. 100%.. you would think he was head and shoulders above the cut. But as a HB he isn’t even top 5 in Rushing. Hes number 9 with 275.. He’s getting super overrated by Saint fans. Zeke, David Johnson, Gurley and Bell are above him as runners. Hes a special scat back. Just not sure he’s Jamaal Charles as a runner type elite. Hes a 800/1300 guy. But that’s not an elite RB. Thats a weapon. No one was calling Jimmy Graham an elite WR when he was with the saints. A great TE yes. But not an elite WR. And it showed in Seattle and it’s showing in GB. The saints system is tailored fit for certain guys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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