Something Is Wrong With Everson Griffen

[Superman(DH23)]

1 minute ago, Nnivolcm said:

I can't pretend to know where your numbers come from, but pro football players all pretty much live their lives in the public eye. For a non professional athlete it's far easier for mental illness to go diagnosed. 

Talking about suicide rates.  And if it was just bc of pro athletes being in the public eye, why don't we see the same disproportionate numbers from athletes in other sports.  Something is up here and we are all irresponsible fools if we ignore it.

[Nnivolcm]

19 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Talking about suicide rates.  And if it was just bc of pro athletes being in the public eye, why don't we see the same disproportionate numbers from athletes in other sports.  Something is up here and we are all irresponsible fools if we ignore it.

Quote

 

Researchers from the CDC's National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) analyzed suicide death rate data on 3,439 retired NFL players. All the men played football for the NFL for at least five seasons between 1959 and 1988. The scientists compared the findings with the suicide death rate for men matched for race and age in the general population.

They found that the rate of suicide among the former NFL players was actually lower than the suicide rate in the general population. Between 1979 to 2013, there were 12 suicide deaths in the NFL group compared with 25 suicide deaths in the group of other men, according to the study published in the American Journal of Sports Medicine.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-findings-on-former-nfl-players-and-suicide-risk/

You didn't tell me where you got your numbers from so I had to go looking. 30 seconds on google makes me think you've got uncredible sources.

[.Buzz]

 

[Danger]

@ILoveTheVikings

You're not supposed to quote entire articles per the rules and stuff.

[sammymvpknight]

49 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

I realize that we don't know a lot, but you can't ignore the unusual suicide rate, the out of character violent acts, that seem to correlate with post mortem care diagnosis.  Why we are seeing it earlier could be related to the early age my generation started playing tackle football.  Prior to my generation kids started playing in high school.  My generation was the first of the pop warner.  

The best study we have is looking at high school football player. They were screened decades later for neurodegenerative disorders...and the football players actually had a lower incidence. https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/high-school-football-players-1956-1970-did-not-have-increase-of-neurodegenerative-diseases/

There have also been numerous studies showing the BENEFITS of football on mental health (at least in the youth through high school populations). 

There is no clinical evidence of CTE up until this point and players that go off the deep end can be explained by numerous CLINICALLY ESTABLISHED diagnoses.

Clearly, getting knocked out isn’t good for your health, but something else that has been established in the medical literature is that certain personality types lead to head injuries. For instance, the significant majority of military service members have had head injuries, but a relatively small number have actually acquired their concussion on the job. I’m willing to bet that many of these NFL players would find ways to injure their brains if they weren’t in the NFL. 

[Superman(DH23)]

5 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said:

The best study we have is looking at high school football player. They were screened decades later for neurodegenerative disorders...and the football players actually had a lower incidence. https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/high-school-football-players-1956-1970-did-not-have-increase-of-neurodegenerative-diseases/

There have also been numerous studies showing the BENEFITS of football on mental health (at least in the youth through high school populations). 

There is no clinical evidence of CTE up until this point and players that go off the deep end can be explained by numerous CLINICALLY ESTABLISHED diagnoses.

Clearly, getting knocked out isn’t good for your health, but something else that has been established in the medical literature is that certain personality types lead to head injuries. For instance, the significant majority of military service members have had head injuries, but a relatively small number have actually acquired their concussion on the job. I’m willing to bet that many of these NFL players would find ways to injure their brains if they weren’t in the NFL. 

I don't claim to know all the answers, and ik we need a lot more data, but something is up that much is undeniable

[JAF-N72EX]

2 hours ago, sammymvpknight said:

The best study we have is looking at high school football player. They were screened decades later for neurodegenerative disorders...and the football players actually had a lower incidence. https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/high-school-football-players-1956-1970-did-not-have-increase-of-neurodegenerative-diseases/

There have also been numerous studies showing the BENEFITS of football on mental health (at least in the youth through high school populations). 

There is no clinical evidence of CTE up until this point and players that go off the deep end can be explained by numerous CLINICALLY ESTABLISHED diagnoses.

Clearly, getting knocked out isn’t good for your health, but something else that has been established in the medical literature is that certain personality types lead to head injuries. For instance, the significant majority of military service members have had head injuries, but a relatively small number have actually acquired their concussion on the job. I’m willing to bet that many of these NFL players would find ways to injure their brains if they weren’t in the NFL.

But they ARE in the NFL. A game that is very violent and takes it toll on a human body.

You cannot compare a person who has spent his life taking shots to the head to that of a casual. No matter the circumstances.

Are we're just going to ignore this 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/25/sports/football/nfl-cte.html

2 hours ago, sammymvpknight said:

There is no clinical evidence of CTE up until this point and players that go off the deep end can be explained by numerous CLINICALLY ESTABLISHED diagnoses.

I'm gonna put a little bit of my personal life out there (which I NEVER do) just to prove a serious point here..

As a middle-aged man now who has suffered NUMEROUS head injuries over the years....I can't tell you how far from the truth this is. See the end of this post for reasons.

I REALLY wanna get into more detail in this but I'll try an keep it short. 

In my pre-teen years...all the way through my early 20's (decades ago) I lived a life-style that made me believe that I needed to fight at any opportunity that presented itself. I used to go looking for fights even though I had enough on my plate as it was dealing my life-style itself. I was getting into so many fights that It got so bad that I literally, on new years one year, made it point to start counting each and every fight that I got into and tally each of those on the wall of "my boys" house's basement wall. In just one year, that total was 76. I would fight sometime twice a day. 

Mind you, I also played football, boxing and baseball(getting hit in the head with a bat unintentionally when a bat slipped out of someone's hand while practice swinging).......

Between all of this above....you know how many hits that I had taken to the head at such an early age?

Fast forward, years later......my life changed and I calmed down and started to think straight.

Fast forward even further. 2011. I was obviously grown and much wiser then. I was a decade removed from the BS, I stopped going out, cut people off who were determinant, had changed my life-style completely,  got married to my high-school sweetheart and all that. No more fighting or nothing.

I made it a point ot avoid it at all cost. Until one day I let my pride get to me once again over something so stupid and bring out the old me.

Late night I was leaving a place on a side street with only my wife in the car and I almost pulled out in front of on-coming car by accident but didn't hit him or anything I hit the breaks. (I looked both ways--I think he was speeding--so did everyone else from stories). So he gets out the car in a rage until he realizes that the car behind me was full of my people after they immediately they got out the car. We were heading to a restaurant and the spot were at at the time we could get too by either taking a left or right. Well I went left (direction the car was heading --no relation) and my people went right. We came to stopped sign a couple blocks away and I looked left and saw this same dude with 2 of his boys running up. This is where my pride got to me. I thought it would be a normal fist fight that I was used too and I knew I would get my *** beat with 3 vs 1 but I never cared about taking ***-beating.

What I didn't expect was what happened next. Dude ran up on me and hit me with something in the right part of my head with something and I blacked-out after that. I don't remember the rest of the night but I KNOW for a FACT it was a gun that I saw under the street light that night. I've been around enough guns to know what a 380 looks like.

I woke up the next morning acting strange I guess and my wife tried to tell me to let her take me to the hospital and I wouldn't go (he words, not mine. I don't remember this). So she called my niece who lived a bloc a way to come over and get here opinion......she couldn't convince me.......so they called my old man. He takes me to the hospital (that I do remember) and the receptionist ask me how did I hurt my head (still bleeding) and I interrupted and said sarcastically "I fell" (I knew they would call the cops if I told them). 

The last thing I remember after that was a doc coming in and asking a few question.....after that.......nothing but a few visual memories, for atleast , a few days straight. I was asleep. And it was like that for I don;t know how long.  When I "woke up" periodically it was very rare. I remember waking up for about a minute and I heard a doc telling my family "I may be here for a 3 weeks"...I responded "sh!t...to hell I am". 

 Anyhow, I had to go through all kinds of therapy and crap (wasn't even allowed to take a shower alone without someone standing in the same room (cool therapist---he respected the privacy and only doing his job).

 (this is kind of a blur to me) Every day the doc ***'t would come in and ask me simple questions like; who is the name of your name kids? Who is the name of the president?......csimple stuff like that. Well, I couldn't answer any of them, tbh. But I kept telling them that I did see myself remembering more and more as each day went on and that I would be okay. 

Anyhow, To make a long story even shorter, the doc had ask my wife some questions throughout this ordeal and had told her that she may have to take care of me for the rest of her life because my head injury was so severe. They even told here that if I were to pull through okay (which I did--to an extent) that there is very good chance that she would see heightened increase in my temper, memory, I would become more irritable alot easier than before and many more things.

And all of those things that I wrote off as BS just 1 year later in 2012 has come to fruition since then --ten fold. I'm not as cool and collective as I used to be. I get sudden severe head pains(NOT  headaches) out of nowhere that last anywhere from 15-45 minutes. I can't remember certain things on the fly anymore--forget what I was going to sya or forget a word on the fly--which is weird because I literally remember EVERYTHING and those around me know that. 

It's got so bad for me that just last (feb or Mar) I went back to the hospital and pulled my records just because I needed to know what the hell happened and now I'm currently at the point of concern and am now looking for 2nd doctor who can read the print and explain it to me in lamens terms.

Point is, I don't care what you or anyone else's "clinical established diagnosis" are. What I do know, from personal experience, is that people writing off CTE or any other mental illness are coming from those who have NEVER once in their lives been through it to any extent.   

[Kiwibrown]

@JustAnotherFan

I read your post above. Your history of head injuries is obviously abnormally severe. I my self do not doubt the impact that trauma to the brain can have , I have had a few concussions in my life and have had noticeable impairment for sometimes years with higher brain functioning from head injuries. That said I dont think you are a true case example of what people can expect from concussions because it sounds like you have the equivalent head trauma of an nfl vet, with both sub concussive and concussive head injuries.

I do not regret playing rugby, which has taken a toll ok my body, I think that it has given me more than I could of dreamed of. As a teen it gave me purpose and motivation. 

I'd say for most people playing football or rugby pr other co fact sports it will give you more than it will take from you, as long as you stop in time. Though for some people it is not the case. Some people die playoffs g sports, some people are paralyzed, some people suffer other severe injuries, but they are the less than 1%ers, which it seems like you are. 

With that said I hope you live and long and heallife and I hope your brain heals.

 

[DingoLadd]

Uh..... I was gonna make a comment but after reading @JustAnotherFan's words I have nothing to say.

Hope Griffen is ok because oh boy.

[joru1000]

I know 2 people with Bipolar Disorder and each of them had similar incidences like this. Both of their first bouts of hypomania/mania happened in public around big groups of people and the cops had to be called. Weird how that works.

 

Anyway, as a Vikings fan I hope Griffen takes some indefinite time off and gets the help he needs. I don't care about the football at this point.

 

 

 

[sammymvpknight]

5 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

But they ARE in the NFL. A game that is very violent and takes it toll on a human body.

You cannot compare a person who has spent his life taking shots to the head to that of a casual. No matter the circumstances.

Are we're just going to ignore this 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/25/sports/football/nfl-cte.html

I'm gonna put a little bit of my personal life out there (which I NEVER do) just to prove a serious point here..

As a middle-aged man now who has suffered NUMEROUS head injuries over the years....I can't tell you how far from the truth this is. See the end of this post for reasons.

I REALLY wanna get into more detail in this but I'll try an keep it short. 

In my pre-teen years...all the way through my early 20's (decades ago) I lived a life-style that made me believe that I needed to fight at any opportunity that presented itself. I used to go looking for fights even though I had enough on my plate as it was dealing my life-style itself. I was getting into so many fights that It got so bad that I literally, on new years one year, made it point to start counting each and every fight that I got into and tally each of those on the wall of "my boys" house's basement wall. In just one year, that total was 76. I would fight sometime twice a day. 

Mind you, I also played football, boxing and baseball(getting hit in the head with a bat unintentionally when a bat slipped out of someone's hand while practice swinging).......

Between all of this above....you know how many hits that I had taken to the head at such an early age?

Fast forward, years later......my life changed and I calmed down and started to think straight.

Fast forward even further. 2011. I was obviously grown and much wiser then. I was a decade removed from the BS, I stopped going out, cut people off who were determinant, had changed my life-style completely,  got married to my high-school sweetheart and all that. No more fighting or nothing.

I made it a point ot avoid it at all cost. Until one day I let my pride get to me once again over something so stupid and bring out the old me.

Late night I was leaving a place on a side street with only my wife in the car and I almost pulled out in front of on-coming car by accident but didn't hit him or anything I hit the breaks. (I looked both ways--I think he was speeding--so did everyone else from stories). So he gets out the car in a rage until he realizes that the car behind me was full of my people after they immediately they got out the car. We were heading to a restaurant and the spot were at at the time we could get too by either taking a left or right. Well I went left (direction the car was heading --no relation) and my people went right. We came to stopped sign a couple blocks away and I looked left and saw this same dude with 2 of his boys running up. This is where my pride got to me. I thought it would be a normal fist fight that I was used too and I knew I would get my *** beat with 3 vs 1 but I never cared about taking ***-beating.

What I didn't expect was what happened next. Dude ran up on me and hit me with something in the right part of my head with something and I blacked-out after that. I don't remember the rest of the night but I KNOW for a FACT it was a gun that I saw under the street light that night. I've been around enough guns to know what a 380 looks like.

I woke up the next morning acting strange I guess and my wife tried to tell me to let her take me to the hospital and I wouldn't go (he words, not mine. I don't remember this). So she called my niece who lived a bloc a way to come over and get here opinion......she couldn't convince me.......so they called my old man. He takes me to the hospital (that I do remember) and the receptionist ask me how did I hurt my head (still bleeding) and I interrupted and said sarcastically "I fell" (I knew they would call the cops if I told them). 

The last thing I remember after that was a doc coming in and asking a few question.....after that.......nothing but a few visual memories, for atleast , a few days straight. I was asleep. And it was like that for I don;t know how long.  When I "woke up" periodically it was very rare. I remember waking up for about a minute and I heard a doc telling my family "I may be here for a 3 weeks"...I responded "sh!t...to hell I am". 

 Anyhow, I had to go through all kinds of therapy and crap (wasn't even allowed to take a shower alone without someone standing in the same room (cool therapist---he respected the privacy and only doing his job).

 (this is kind of a blur to me) Every day the doc ***'t would come in and ask me simple questions like; who is the name of your name kids? Who is the name of the president?......csimple stuff like that. Well, I couldn't answer any of them, tbh. But I kept telling them that I did see myself remembering more and more as each day went on and that I would be okay. 

Anyhow, To make a long story even shorter, the doc had ask my wife some questions throughout this ordeal and had told her that she may have to take care of me for the rest of her life because my head injury was so severe. They even told here that if I were to pull through okay (which I did--to an extent) that there is very good chance that she would see heightened increase in my temper, memory, I would become more irritable alot easier than before and many more things.

And all of those things that I wrote off as BS just 1 year later in 2012 has come to fruition since then --ten fold. I'm not as cool and collective as I used to be. I get sudden severe head pains(NOT  headaches) out of nowhere that last anywhere from 15-45 minutes. I can't remember certain things on the fly anymore--forget what I was going to sya or forget a word on the fly--which is weird because I literally remember EVERYTHING and those around me know that. 

It's got so bad for me that just last (feb or Mar) I went back to the hospital and pulled my records just because I needed to know what the hell happened and now I'm currently at the point of concern and am now looking for 2nd doctor who can read the print and explain it to me in lamens terms.

Point is, I don't care what you or anyone else's "clinical established diagnosis" are. What I do know, from personal experience, is that people writing off CTE or any other mental illness are coming from those who have NEVER once in their lives been through it to any extent.   

I’m sorry about your issues but I have said is true. Post concussive syndrome and the aftermath of TBI is real. I’m not disputing that. I’m disputing the pathological diagnosis of CTE as a clinical entity.

There is zero evidence up until this point that the findings seem postmortem are causing symptoms which people are alive. Also...many people have HORRIBLE appearing brains postmortem and they NEVER demonstrate symptoms. So we can’t assume that there is a correlation. The problem with CTE (postmortem) literature is that it’s confounded by what’s called selection bias. Anyone in the medical field who has experience understanding and digesting medical literature knows that the amount of bias is astounding, to the point that you just can’t take them seriously. The NFL players studied all died from things like suicide and demonstrated grossly abnormal behaviors while alive. So a postmortem analysis showing brain pathology doesn’t tell us that it was caused by repetitive head trauma...it just tells us that people with significant psychological issues had bad looking brains. There is no control group. And we don’t know what the brains of NFL players who go on to live normal lives without any post concussive symptom...heck their brains could look like mush for all we know, but what would that tell us about the abnormal behaviors of the other NFL players. 

And with Psychiatry, I’d suggest that you read the DSM-10. You’ll find a common trend, you can’t make a diagnosis unless there aren’t other diagnoses that could explain the pathology. I’m willing to be that there if a ton of depression and substance abuse with the players who go off the dead end. That’s an enormous problem when trying to make this a clinical diagnosis. 

Again, I’m not trying to undermine your symptoms or the symptoms of NFL players, I believe that they are real. I’m a rehab specialist, I more than anyone understand TBI...I’m just trying to explain the challenges CTE has in becoming a real clinical diagnosis. 

[ILoveTheVikings]

12 hours ago, Danger said:

@ILoveTheVikings

You're not supposed to quote entire articles per the rules and stuff.

My mistake! Haven't made a thread in a long time.

This story is just so strange that I don't even know what to believe right now. 

[JJ6]

I remember watching Griffin on NFLN last year and thinking there was something off with him. Hope he gets the help he needs. 

[ILoveTheVikings]

 

Oh my word. 

[footbull3196]

Now that Griffen is out, we get to see what Danielle Hunter is really made of.  I wonder if he'll start to play up to his contract now that he doesnt have Griffen drawing double teams.  Admittedly, I've liked what I've seen from him to start the season so far