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X-Men: Dark Phoenix (06/07/19)


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20 minutes ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

Quite sad what happened to this film series..there was so much hope after first class and days of future past(probably top 5 in my marvel films) then the apocalypse debacle and now this...

That's what's so disappointing to me - DoFP was a game changer, bringing in the old crew and the new crew rather seamlessly and playing to their strengths - when old Magneto and Charles are looking at each other in the end and Magneto says "All those years wasted fighting each other, Charles - to have a precious few of them back..." that just broke me. When young Charles/Magneto are fighting in the plane over who abandoned who, and Magneto is going to bring down the plane screaming "Where were YOU, Charles? We were supposed to protect them!" also broke me.There were tons of moments like that, just really added weight to both sets of movies.

That was probably the peak of any full X-Men movie (I don't consider Logan as a full X-Men movie - I probably should, but I don't) and it felt like they had a blueprint that could rival MCU (or at least The Dark Knight trilogy) .

Then...they botched a potential Thanos-type villain with Apocalypse. So sad. So, so sad.

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20 minutes ago, ET80 said:

That's what's so disappointing to me - DoFP was a game changer, bringing in the old crew and the new crew rather seamlessly and playing to their strengths - when old Magneto and Charles are looking at each other in the end and Magneto says "All those years wasted fighting each other, Charles - to have a precious few of them back..." that just broke me. When young Charles/Magneto are fighting in the plane over who abandoned who, and Magneto is going to bring down the plane screaming "Where were YOU, Charles? We were supposed to protect them!" also broke me.There were tons of moments like that, just really added weight to both sets of movies.

That was probably the peak of any full X-Men movie (I don't consider Logan as a full X-Men movie - I probably should, but I don't) and it felt like they had a blueprint that could rival MCU (or at least The Dark Knight trilogy) .

Then...they botched a potential Thanos-type villain with Apocalypse. So sad. So, so sad.

Great post. DoFP was absolutely incredible. Def a Top 2 X-men movie. And then it all went to crap - Apocalypse was one of the worst super hero movies ever made. I doubt I ever see DP unless its just on HBO and I have nothing else going on.

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33 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

It's absolutely unbelievable how inconsistent this film series is. Incredible peaks and the lowest of valleys.

This is kinda the norm for films with a ton of entries, isnt it? Die Hard has what, 7 flicks now? Only 2 or 3 are actually good. Fast and Furious maybe like 50-60% of them are good. Harry Potter had a couple duds (IMO Goblet of Fire was trash). James Bond is probably at a 70% success rate. The DCU as we all know has been wild. X-men is part of the norm with its peaks and valleys. We be spoiled by the MCU. 

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10 hours ago, Thelonebillsfan said:

I just want Cykes to be Cyclops, leader of the X-Men, the brilliant strategist and capable thinker. He should be the new Chris Evans Captain America level guy.

Not "Hah look Wolverine dunked on him again" or "Oh yeah that's right he's in this movie". Cyclops is a fundamental piece to making the X-Men work, you NEED him. And all the Fox movies aside from 2/3rds of the first one treat him as an almost afterthought. 

This. I'm tired of Wolverine being 'the guy'. Cyclops and Jean were my favorite part of the X-Men cartoon series in the '90s. 

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I told y'all X-Men was dead and completely dead years and years ago and you didn't want to believe me.  I told you all Apocalypse was going to suck hard, and you didn't believe me.  I  told you all this one was going to be the end of X-Men as we know it before there was even a hint of Disney buying Fox. 

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1 hour ago, D82 said:

This. I'm tired of Wolverine being 'the guy'. Cyclops and Jean were my favorite part of the X-Men cartoon series in the '90s. 

It's all about money.

Wolverine is far far far far far more popular and marketable to the masses than Cyclops ever will be...and I actually love Cyclops myself.

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1 hour ago, Deadpulse said:

This is kinda the norm for films with a ton of entries, isnt it? Die Hard has what, 7 flicks now? Only 2 or 3 are actually good. Fast and Furious maybe like 50-60% of them are good. Harry Potter had a couple duds (IMO Goblet of Fire was trash). James Bond is probably at a 70% success rate. The DCU as we all know has been wild. X-men is part of the norm with its peaks and valleys. We be spoiled by the MCU. 

Twilight series was amazing.

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5 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

It's all about money.

Wolverine is far far far far far more popular and marketable to the masses than Cyclops ever will be...and I actually love Cyclops myself.

Marvel’s done a great job at making less-than-popular characters popular...so I’m hoping they treat Cyclops properly once they decide to introduce the X-Men.

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1 hour ago, Deadpulse said:

Fast and Furious maybe like 50-60% of them are good.

Man why you gotta hate on the F&F?  I love them all.  Even #2, and especially #3 (the Han tribute film).

But yeah, i agree.  Every series has some duds.  Usually the duds in action films are still watchable though.

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7 minutes ago, D82 said:

Marvel’s done a great job at making less-than-popular characters popular...so I’m hoping they treat Cyclops properly once they decide to introduce the X-Men.

They in fact make Cyclops pretty unlikable.  

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3 hours ago, ET80 said:

That's what's so disappointing to me - DoFP was a game changer, bringing in the old crew and the new crew rather seamlessly and playing to their strengths - when old Magneto and Charles are looking at each other in the end and Magneto says "All those years wasted fighting each other, Charles - to have a precious few of them back..." that just broke me. When young Charles/Magneto are fighting in the plane over who abandoned who, and Magneto is going to bring down the plane screaming "Where were YOU, Charles? We were supposed to protect them!" also broke me.There were tons of moments like that, just really added weight to both sets of movies.

That was probably the peak of any full X-Men movie (I don't consider Logan as a full X-Men movie - I probably should, but I don't) and it felt like they had a blueprint that could rival MCU (or at least The Dark Knight trilogy) .

Then...they botched a potential Thanos-type villain with Apocalypse. So sad. So, so sad.

I thought Oscar Isaac would be fantastic as Apocalypse.  And then they made him into Kevin Hart-sized Apocalypse.   So disappointing. 

2 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

Great post. DoFP was absolutely incredible. Def a Top 2 X-men movie. And then it all went to crap - Apocalypse was one of the worst super hero movies ever made. I doubt I ever see DP unless its just on HBO and I have nothing else going on.

I will always put X-Men 2 as top because it set a new bar for hero movies (Spidey 2 didn't come out until a year later).  It also proved ensemble movies could work at high levels (X-Men was ok, but flawed), I agree the original Superman & even the Keaton Batman was good enough to show it could, but X-Men was the first that showed you could do the ensemble.   But yeah, DoFP is head and shoulders ahead of anything else.  It's such a shame, they had a blank canvas to work off, and make it great...and instead they let a bunch of dogs pee on it, and sell it as art.   Sigh.

Edited by Broncofan
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30 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

I thought Oscar Isaac would be fantastic as Apocalypse.  And then they made him into Kevin Hart-sized Apocalypse.   So disappointing

I feel as if the production crew got caught in the middle of making Apocalypse a "comic book" character or a "realistic" character - and you really can't do both, you gotta go one another:

- In the MCU, Thanos wasn't downsized to fit to a realistic scale; He was well over 8 feet tall, just a massive monstrosity. That worked, because we've seen such monstrosities walking around (Hulk, Korg, Hulkbuster, Ant Man, "final" Ultron, etc). If you go this route, go this route; Don't try to build to a realistic scale, just leave him as that, let his character live up to that and surround him with other monstrosities.

- If you go realistic, you have to win with dialogue, presence, gravitas...much like how Tom Hardy owned every single room as Bane in TDK:R. Hardy is maybe a generous 5' 10" 205lbs, as opposed to the 6' 10" 500lbs Bane; They didn't run to equal the image, but they built up the presence of an ominous and nearly invincible man, a guy who was the embodiment of brutality and chaos. That's done via expert writing and set moments that create the feeling, something all the movies in TDK did very well. 

Apocalypse tried to do both - realistic size, but comic book presence - and missed on both in a spectacular fashion. 

One thing that's never really mentioned when bashing Apocalypse - they equally ruined the Angel/Archangel character and story arc. I literally had zero interest in Warren Worthington III, and that's a damn shame... because his arc with Apocalypse as the lead Four Horseman is absolutely great; you could probably do an entire movie on that rise, fall and redemption arc on him and have a franchise that would kill it.

Missed, just MISSED the mark. So sad.

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3 minutes ago, ET80 said:

I feel as if the production crew got caught in the middle of making Apocalypse a "comic book" character or a "realistic" character - and you really can't do both, you gotta go one another:

- In the MCU, Thanos wasn't downsized to fit to a realistic scale; He was well over 8 feet tall, just a massive monstrosity. That worked, because we've seen such monstrosities walking around (Hulk, Korg, Hulkbuster, Ant Man, "final" Ultron, etc). If you go this route, go this route; Don't try to build to a realistic scale.

- If you go realistic, you have to win with dialogue, presence, gravitas...much like how Tom Hardy owned every single room as Bane in TDK:R. Hardy is maybe a generous 5' 10" 205lbs, as opposed to the 6' 10" 500lbs Bane; They didn't run to equal the image, but they built up the presence of an ominous and nearly invincible man, a guy who was the embodiment of brutality and chaos. That's done via expert writing and set moments that create the feeling, something all the movies in TDK did very well. 

Apocalypse tried to do both - realistic size, but comic book presence - and missed on both in a spectacular fashion. 

One thing that's never really mentioned when bashing Apocalypse - they equally ruined the Angel/Archangel character and story arc. I literally had zero interest in William Worthington III, and that's a damn shame... because his arc with Apocalypse as the lead Four Horseman is absolutely great; you could probably do an entire movie on that rise, fall and redemption arc on him and have a franchise that would kill it.

Missed, just MISSED the mark. So sad.

Or Joker with Ledger.   The thing with Bane, was the plane scene, the Gotham takeover, the prison background, and then his breaking Wayne's back....built it all up.  And like you said, it wasn't just actions, it aligned with his dialogue and screen presence.   Both Ledger and Bane talked the talked...and walked the walk.   That pencil scene with Ledger was legend.  I remember that scene still, it was a game-changer (and then of course, the jail interrogation, and the awful choice he gave on who to save).     But yeah, it's either go make him imposing, or build the realism all the way.   I'd argue that with Thanos, Brolin delivered on dialogue and presence as well, which is why IW / Endgame will age incredibly well IMO.

But yeah, Apocalypse was an utter horror show.  Missed on all counts.  And frankly, like you said, Archangel was just a mess.   Frankly, so was Storm.   And don't get me started on the cheap Weapon-X Wolverine scene that served no future purpose.   I mean, pretty much everything.  The only 2 cool moments I liked was Quicksilver's rescue slow-down (but it wasn't original, either, just a cool continuation), and Charles unlocking Moira's memories..that was good.  I try to repress everything else.

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