X-Men: Dark Phoenix (06/07/19)

[43M]

4 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

There were what, four of those movies? Last Stand,  Days of Future Past, Apocalypse, and Dark Phoenix.

Last Stand and Days of Future Past were solid movies at best with Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix being entirely meh? Not even sure why anybody cares about the end of this era. It was a bad one.

Last Stand not part of this timeline.

I think you mean First Class.

[AlexGreen#20]

1 hour ago, kingseanjohn said:

Are you saying that Last Stand and DoFP were nearly equal movies? @ET80 ban this man!

I actually meant First Class and not Last Stand.

But yes, Last Stand was better than Days of Future Past 

[seminoles1]

51 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

But yes, Last Stand was better than Days of Future Past 

Yeah, and Blake Bortles is better than Aaron Rodgers.

[Fresh Prince]

I always though DOFP was a good movie but an OK X-men movie. There was a lot more they could’ve done, instead of focusing on the main 3 characters again.

[AlexGreen#20]

3 hours ago, seminoles1 said:

Yeah, and Blake Bortles is better than Aaron Rodgers.

What was actually good about Days of Future Past?

[43M]

2 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

What was actually good about Days of Future Past?

The action was top notch, it brought all the iconic characters from both timelines together, the characters were done extremely well and it was just all around extremely entertaining.

Last Stand dragged a good bit, it wasted several characters including ruining one of the best comic arcs ever by forcing it in as a side story, and just never came together.  Pieces of it were very entertaining, but the rest was a mess.  Very reminiscent of movies like Spiderman 3 and Batman v Superman.

I enjoyed Last Stand more than most, but better than DoFP?  That's a rare opinion.

[AlexGreen#20]

Just now, FourThreeMafia said:

The action was top notch, it brought all the iconic characters from both timelines together, the characters were done extremely well and it was just all around extremely entertaining.

Last Stand dragged a good bit, it wasted several characters including ruining one of the best comic arcs ever by forcing it in as a side story, and just never came together.  Pieces of it were very entertaining, but the rest was a mess.  Very reminiscent of movies like Spiderman 3 and Batman v Superman.

I enjoyed Last Stand more than most, but better than DoFP?  That's a rare opinion.

Disagree that the action was top notch. and also disagree that it brought the iconic characters from the timelines together. Wolverine was the only one who actually time traveled, and Fassbender is the only of the new generation really worth remembering. 

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"Charles Xavier did more for mutant kind than you will ever know. My greatest regret is that he had to die for our dream to live."

and the call back where in the first scene Magneto complains about having to visit Jean as a child, and Xavier says they only have to visit, "The special ones". And then after he dies, Rogue says that Xavier came to recruit her from her house, and Iceman says, "he came to all our houses."

Those are like the two best examples of characterization in any movie ever, not just super hero movies. 

Rogue and Storm talking about the cure is another rock solid bit of characterization that is still memorable.

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Combining The Cure and Rise of the Phoenix into one movie doesn't seem any more forced than combining Planet Hulk and Ragnarok into one movie in Thor Ragnorak, and nobody had real beef with that decision ("He Stood Alone at Gjallabru" is the best scene in Super Hero Comic Book history and that was left on the cutting room floor). I thought both of the Last Stand arcs were handled about as well as reasonably could be expected in a movie timeframe.

 +++

I even thought it handled it's messaging in a subtle but pointed way. The abortion/cure clinic bombing and the homosexual analogies were both handled tastefully.

[fretgod99]

On 6/6/2019 at 12:08 PM, THE DUKE said:

It's a damn shame because they are going to have a tough time topping Fassbender and McAvoy as Magneto/Prof X.  That was A+ casting.

McKellen, Stewart, Fassbender, and McCoy. That’s having lightning strike twice. Both castings were phenomenal.

[Manny/Patrick]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Disagree that the action was top notch. and also disagree that it brought the iconic characters from the timelines together. Wolverine was the only one who actually time traveled, and Fassbender is the only of the new generation really worth remembering. 

+++

"Charles Xavier did more for mutant kind than you will ever know. My greatest regret is that he had to die for our dream to live."

and the call back where in the first scene Magneto complains about having to visit Jean as a child, and Xavier says they only have to visit, "The special ones". And then after he dies, Rogue says that Xavier came to recruit her from her house, and Iceman says, "he came to all our houses."

Those are like the two best examples of characterization in any movie ever, not just super hero movies. 

Rogue and Storm talking about the cure is another rock solid bit of characterization that is still memorable.

+++

Combining The Cure and Rise of the Phoenix into one movie doesn't seem any more forced than combining Planet Hulk and Ragnarok into one movie in Thor Ragnorak, and nobody had real beef with that decision ("He Stood Alone at Gjallabru" is the best scene in Super Hero Comic Book history and that was left on the cutting room floor). I thought both of the Last Stand arcs were handled about as well as reasonably could be expected in a movie timeframe.

 +++

I even thought it handled it's messaging in a subtle but pointed way. The abortion/cure clinic bombing and the homosexual analogies were both handled tastefully.

Juggernaut was handled terribly, I’ll admit the last fight was amazing. Jean Greys Phoenix subplot was bad, I’m sorry we disagree there

[AlexGreen#20]

2 minutes ago, Manny/Patrick said:

Juggernaut was handled terribly, I’ll admit the last fight was amazing. Jean Greys Phoenix subplot was bad, I’m sorry we disagree there

Juggernaut was handled as the overly simplistic version he's often portrayed as in the cartoons, rather than legitimate intelligent, terrifying, enemy and Xavier's family like he is in the better comics. No doubt that the baby version has a much lower ceiling, but I only think you view the handling of him as terrible if you expect the high degree of difficulty character and not the baby version that is at this point actually more popular in pop culture. I go back to Thor Ragnarok. Nobody is ever complaining about the handling of Executioner, despite those two characters basically being given the exact same treatment when transitioned from comic to television. 

In the case of the Phoenix subplot, I wouldn't go so far as to say bad. I thought it was a little underdeveloped, but I would much rather have the version from Last Stand than I would Dark Phoenix. That's an extremely difficult arc to mold, and just not one well suited for comics.

[ET80]

6 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

What was actually good about Days of Future Past?

Everything.

[MikeT14]

Patrick Stewart and James McAvoy had a pretty iconic (if brief, yes) moment together in the movie. 

[43M]

12 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Juggernaut was handled as the overly simplistic version he's often portrayed as in the cartoons, rather than legitimate intelligent, terrifying, enemy and Xavier's family like he is in the better comics. No doubt that the baby version has a much lower ceiling, but I only think you view the handling of him as terrible if you expect the high degree of difficulty character and not the baby version that is at this point actually more popular in pop culture. I go back to Thor Ragnarok. Nobody is ever complaining about the handling of Executioner, despite those two characters basically being given the exact same treatment when transitioned from comic to television. 

In the case of the Phoenix subplot, I wouldn't go so far as to say bad. I thought it was a little underdeveloped, but I would much rather have the version from Last Stand than I would Dark Phoenix. That's an extremely difficult arc to mold, and just not one well suited for comics.

Like I said...you are obviously entitled to like Last Stand more, but there is absolutely no defending the Phoenix arc in Last Stand as anything other than terrible from an objective standpoint.   If you didnt mind it, that's fine....but that doesnt change the fact they completely ruined every aspect of the Phoenix arc.

Edited June 10, 2019 by FourThreeMafia

[AlexGreen#20]

7 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Like I said...you are obviously entitled to like Last Stand more, but there is absolutely no defending the Phoenix arc in Last Stand as anything other than terrible from an objective standpoint.   If you didnt mind it, that's fine....but that doesnt change the fact they completely ruined every aspect of the Phoenix arc.

You wanted them to introduce The Hellfire Club, the Skrull, Kree, and Shiar Empires, and The Watchers in a single movie? You would need a full season of television to do the Phoenix arc justice, and likely would need more than that if you wanted to adequately foreshadow it. The Last Stand did a huge simplification of a 9 book comic arc. It touched on the significant characterization through very simplified events that maintained rooted on earth (unless you're down on them icing Cyclops, which I get).

Thor Ragnarok did the exact same thing, but nobody is grinding any kind of axe over that movie. Balder didn't even show up. Hell, every Marvel movie has done very similar things.

I don't understand at all why we would compare The Last Stand to it's comic book, and not compare every other movie to it's comic roots. If you do so, you're always going to have an axe to grind.

[kingseanjohn]

19 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

You wanted them to introduce The Hellfire Club, the Skrull, Kree, and Shiar Empires, and The Watchers in a single movie? You would need a full season of television to do the Phoenix arc justice, and likely would need more than that if you wanted to adequately foreshadow it. The Last Stand did a huge simplification of a 9 book comic arc. It touched on the significant characterization through very simplified events that maintained rooted on earth (unless you're down on them icing Cyclops, which I get).

Thor Ragnarok did the exact same thing, but nobody is grinding any kind of axe over that movie. Balder didn't even show up. Hell, every Marvel movie has done very similar things.

I don't understand at all why we would compare The Last Stand to it's comic book, and not compare every other movie to it's comic roots. If you do so, you're always going to have an axe to grind.

The biggest difference is that more people know the X-Men and the characters involved. The 90s animated series exposed way more people to their universe. The vast majority don’t know who Balder is or many, or any, others in the Thor universe.