lavar703 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Russell Wilson, Nick Foles, Matt Hassleback, Mark Brunnell Sure there have been misses, there are misses in round 1 too, especially at QB & Wr. I remember a few years ago me saying that I didn’t want to spend a first round pick on a WR again because ours always seem to bust, and that guy said we’ll we can’t give up on it, we have to try. I wonder who that guy was... Finding a QB and finding a receiver are completely different dude. You know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Just now, turtle28 said: Russell Wilson, Nick Foles, Matt Hassleback, Mark Brunnell Russell Wilson didn't sit. I'll accept the other three. However, you didn't complete the other half of the assignment: how many quarterbacks since Mark Brunell entered the league were drafted in the third or later rounds and amounted to nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Just now, turtle28 said: I remember a few years ago me saying that I didn’t want to spend a first round pick on a WR again because ours always seem to bust, and that guy said we’ll we can’t give up on it, we have to try. I wonder who that guy was... That would be me. The Redskins seem to be snakebit when it comes to wide receivers. At the same time, other teams are able to find quality WRs in the first round, so I have to believe that if the Redskins keep trying, eventually they might succeed. It could take a long time, but I don't want the fear of the past dictating the plan for the future. At the same time, VERY FEW teams are able to draft a mid-round quarterback and "develop" him. Your examples were guys drafted in 2012, 1998, and 1993, respectively. By and large, it doesn't happen. Avoiding taking a chance at another wide receiver because of previous bad luck = Gambler's Fallacy Avoiding taking a QB in the mid rounds in hopes of "developing him" = bucking the trend across the league for 25 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 29 minutes ago, Woz said: Russell Wilson didn't sit. I'll accept the other three. However, you didn't complete the other half of the assignment: how many quarterbacks since Mark Brunell entered the league were drafted in the third or later rounds and amounted to nothing? Fair enough but Wilson was a 3rd round pick. Heck, I didn’t even mention Tom Brady bc I figured you’d be wel, that’s Tom Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 1 hour ago, lavar703 said: Finding a QB and finding a receiver are completely different dude. You know that. Is it? We haven’t drafted an above average WR except Crowder in the last 26 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdog44 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 2 hours ago, turtle28 said: Russell Wilson, Nick Foles, Matt Hassleback, Mark Brunnell Any coincidence that 3 of those 4 crossed paths with Andy Reid early in thier careers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 19 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Is it? We haven’t drafted an above average WR except Crowder in the last 26 years. “We”. Now do you see the difference in the Redskins inability to draft receivers as opposed to the entire league basically not being able to find a QB after the third round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 14 minutes ago, lavar703 said: “We”. Now do you see the difference in the Redskins inability to draft receivers as opposed to the entire league basically not being able to find a QB after the third round? Actually, the WR positon has the biggest bust rate along w/ QB in he NFL. So, it is just as hard to draft a starting WR as it is to find a competent starting QB. It’s not just the redskins, it’s league wide. I mean let’s look at the Redskins last 26 years of drafting: • 1993-1999, Charley Casserly who I think we’d all agree is at least an avg talent evaluator, IMO better than avg. • 2000-2009, Cerato who was obviously awful we did use draft picks to acquire Lavernous Coles & Santana Moss thiugh, so those seemed like good decisions. Arguably overpays, but they were good for us. • 2010-2013, Mike Shanahan who was a lousy defensive talent evaluator but a good offensive talent evaluator. He drafted Hankerson (bust), Terrance Austin (bust), Aldrick Robinson (has been good for a 6th rnd pick) and Niles Paul who was converted into a TE and was/is decent. • 2014, Bruce Allen I don’t think we drafted a WR but we did sign Djax & Droperts • 2015-16, McCloughan. He drafted Crowder & Doctson • 2017 & 18, Allen & Williams. The only WR they’ve drafted in Trey Quinn and he’s TBD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 16 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Actually, the WR positon has the biggest bust rate along w/ QB in he NFL. So, it is just as hard to draft a starting WR as it is to find a competent starting QB. It’s not just the redskins, it’s league wide. I mean let’s look at the Redskins last 26 years of drafting: • 1993-1999, Charley Casserly who I think we’d all agree is at least an avg talent evaluator, IMO better than avg. • 2000-2009, Cerato who was obviously awful we did use draft picks to acquire Lavernous Coles & Santana Moss thiugh, so those seemed like good decisions. Arguably overpays, but they were good for us. • 2010-2013, Mike Shanahan who was a lousy defensive talent evaluator but a good offensive talent evaluator. He drafted Hankerson (bust), Terrance Austin (bust), Aldrick Robinson (has been good for a 6th rnd pick) and Niles Paul who was converted into a TE and was/is decent. • 2014, Bruce Allen I don’t think we drafted a WR but we did sign Djax & Droperts • 2015-16, McCloughan. He drafted Crowder & Doctson • 2017 & 18, Allen & Williams. The only WR they’ve drafted in Trey Quinn and he’s TBD. You're changing the subject Turtle. hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Sigh. What does any of that have to do with finding a Kirk Cousins level QB beyond the third round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 6 hours ago, Thaiphoon said: You're changing the subject Turtle. hehe Ah, True. Sorry too many shots of EW. ? My friend is getting married at Rehoboth on Saturday, we started celebrating early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 12 hours ago, turtle28 said: Fair enough but Wilson was a 3rd round pick. Heck, I didn’t even mention Tom Brady bc I figured you’d be wel, that’s Tom Brady. Brady was one of the one's I thought you would mention, to be honest (he didn't sit much, but he lucked into the position and never relinquished it (excluding 2008 when he blew out his knee)). Again, however, he was drafted in 2000. If a mid-round quarterback sits for a year or more, their career is probably doomed to permanent backup status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir L Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 trent green was a late pick for this team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Just now, Vladimir L said: trent green was a late pick for this team Yes, he was. In 1993. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PARROTHEAD Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 16 hours ago, lavar703 said: Sigh. What does any of that have to do with finding a Kirk Cousins level QB beyond the third round? About 30% of the qbs drafted since 2010 became starters. Some of those drafted in the 1st were reaches to grab a guy just because he wasnt going to be around at a teams pick later. And it forced their hand to grab them early, or make a deal just so they could get a guy. Talents like Gabbert and Turbiski had little playing time in college. But teams thought worth the risk to grab them just to see if they could sit, learn and pan out. Redskins dont need to reach up in the first round and pluck a 3rd round talent just to see if one day he pans out learning behind Alex. Other guys are there to try such with because we have time. We dont need to be desperate and reach for a guy when we have other holes to fill. Give me the 90% chance of a long term guard over the 10% chance of reaching for a qb. Ill take the 5% chance of Stanley from Iowa ever starting out the 3rd, with BPA in the first bringing a 90% chance. Over the 10% chance Lock does out the first, and the 25% chance random other player out the 3rd pans out. We just arnt in position of needing to reach, and hoping for the best out of it. Were in position to build a strong team, while taking the time to try in develop guys at qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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