GDT Week 4: KC @ DEN

[broncofan48]

1 minute ago, BroncoBruin said:

They played as well as they could have until late. Lack of contain broke them down the stretch and Mahomes made ridiculous throws. This was all about Mahomes. 

Not to mention they were gassed.  35-24 TOP

[Broncofan]

24 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

The crappy thing is they won’t go away from Case.  He’s just good enough to hold onto the gig.   Purgatory 

 

22 minutes ago, iLikeDefense said:

Pretty much this. 

Watch for the take that says "hey we put up 23 points, most nights that's good enough to win".   And point to the fact we were 1 play away from winning the game.

It's coming.

The reality:

1.  The INT was partly on Huermann, for not ball-fighting - but Keenum gets that ball to lead Huermann, and it's a non-issue.

2.   Keenum missed at least 4-5 open guys...not just DT for the GW TD.    

3.   KC's pass coverage was ABYSMAL tonight - and Keenum simply couldn't take advantage.

Now, if we are spreading blame:

1.  The D play calling on 2nd and 30 was just brutal.   I am also NOT a fan of putting Von in coverage on key plays.   Shane Ray got heat - but maybe Von gets there.  Sorry, I love being more aggressive in pass coverage, but Woods negated much of it by having that 2nd and 30 call and then leaving Von in coverage in key moments. 

2.  And the O play calling, while I love what OC Musgrave has done, cost us the game in 1 key way - it got really too cute and pass-heavy when our run game was dominating KC in the 1Q and 2Q.   We should have been up more than 13-10.   And that cost us.  I'd also point out the 3rd down run by Freeman was an awful call that he bailed out, and that 4th down conversion by DT was a similar play.     I totally understand our need to exploit KC's pass D - but when we're getting 6-8 yard runs on 1st down, getting away from that in the 1H, well, it caught up to us bigtime in the 2H when our D tired out.

3.  Our OL pass blocking is absolutely terrible.   Bolles actually got away with 3 takedowns on the last 2 drives, which weren't flagged.   I'm glad to hear that Billy Turner was OK at RT - but Bolles is simply not a good pass blocking LT.   He's an absolute mauler in the run game, and if we use him at RT, his limitations in pass blocking probably wouldn't cost us nearly as much.   And yes, it's a sunk cost to have spent 1.20 on RT alone when there were better talents even at T (let alone Foster, or the trade up for OJ Howard, all of which were available), but Elway's shown he's willing to move on and not compound sunk costs, he really needs to consider consolidating our OL that way.   

4.  I gave King a pass for bad weather struggles last week - but he wasn't great this week.   Now, to be clear, he's not the biggest problem we have.  But we should get better play.

5.  Todd Davis is a helluva character guy - but he's a total liability out there.  He again got burned on key plays - and worse, started jawing at teammates for the miss, when it was on him.  THAT is what I was saying before about making him captain that seemed iffy.   Your captain doesn't have to be your best player - but he shouldn't be the guy getting toasted, either.  

I won't post  only the negative notes, I do want to highlight the positives:

1.  Our D played their hearts out, and played with everything they had.   I'm proud of that unit.   Jewell and Stewart played with nastiness I want to see more of (Stewart cleanly laid out Kelce, and Jewell really bullied Hunt a couple of times).    The D broke down at the end - because they were gassed (and yes, Musgrave owns that for getting away from the run), and then Woods compounded it with the crazy D calls. 

2.  Our OL's run blocking, admittedly vs. a bad KC run D, performed admirably.  For as much as I give the starting T's hell for their inability to pass block, their run blocking was top 5-10 tonight.

3.  DT and Sander and Sutton all made key plays when they had to that extended drives.    One of DT / Sanders has got to go, and Sutton fits DT's profile way better, so it's going to be DT, but any questions on DT's desire should be quelled, he's just too $$ to keep for what he is now, no issues with that, but no need to characterize the issue as more than that.

4.  McManus really did earn his keep tonight.   Great on KO's too.

5.  Our RB's - hell, even Booker played well.  But really, we see how much the future is Freeman as the hammer, and Lindsey as the lightning (who has enough wiggle to still play in the RZ, that jumpcut before the TD run was a thing of beauty).   IMO, Lindsay was deployed perfectly run-wise - 12 rushes, just would have liked to see way more than 8 carries for Freeman, he was a horse tonight. 

Having said that, we saw tonight vs. a terrible pass D, just how limited Case Keenum was.  And we saw a coaching staff that for some reason, went away from their strengths at key moments (run game in 1H when we were dominating, and then using Von in coverage in key moments in the 3Q/4Q).  

I'm proud of our team's fight.   I really do have nothing but love and respect for our young guys.   We have a lot of hope.  But we will go NOWHERE with Case Keenum.   And yes, as much as I loved Chubb's play tonight - a franchise QBOTF would help us a lot more.    It's just that simple.   Let's just hope Elway gets lucky and Chad Kelly shows us something - because I think we all know even though the change isn't coming yet - it's just a matter of when, and not if, on when Keenum's time is done.    

[thebestever6]

Royce freeman averaged 8 something yards per carry there's no way he shouldn't of had more carries. And Vance has to over rule musgrave if something is working and it's abandoned. 

This game comes down to two things case Keenum sucking. And the kc totally outcoached denver once half time adjustments were made. It was a tale of two halves.

[Broncofan]

BTW, a HUGE tip of the cap to Patrick Mahomes.   He was a pure magician.   Everyone will point to the 3rd down left-handed throw.  But there were 5-6 plays where he felt the rush, avoided it, and then moved around the pocket - and made A-Rod level throws with his cannon that were on the money.    I just SMH at the young greatness he pulled off with their 2nd WR out of the game, their TE pulling a goose egg in the 1H, and Tyreke Hill way off his usual game.    That was an identity-making type game, to win down 10 on the road in a raucous Mile High.

I've always prided myself on being a loyal Broncos fan, so it hurts for me to say this - but the Chiefs' cap misery and awful roster construction won't matter nearly as much with Mahomes on that team.  He'll no doubt lose some games due to boneheaded gunslinger plays - but he's also going to win a bunch like tonight with his insane talent.   We can all say we were witnesses to his true coming out party (it's one thing to throw 5-6 TD's in a blowout, but the magical comeback with what he displayed...well I stand in awe...and can only applaud.  MUCH respect).

[7DnBrnc53]

On 10/1/2018 at 11:59 PM, thebestever6 said:

This game comes down to two things case Keenum sucking.

What's sad is that Sandy Clough (on the postgame show) is disappointed in Keenum. I am not. I expected him to fail. He also pooh-poohed Kelly getting a chance when a caller spoke up in favor of a QB change (Clough must have something against Kelly).

[thebestever6]

5 minutes ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

What's sad is that Sandy Clough (on the postgame show) is disappointed in Keenum. I am not. I expected him to fail. He also pooh-poohed Kelly getting a chance when a caller spoke up in favor of a QB change (Clough must have something against Kelly).

He's going long spurts of not executing to the level of a marginal talent level qb let alone one making 18mill. No matter what you thought Keenum was before this yesr you had to expect better then this. He's costing this team games.

[7DnBrnc53]

On 10/2/2018 at 12:08 AM, thebestever6 said:

He's going long spurts of not executing to the level of a marginal talent level qb let alone one making 18mill. No matter what you thought Keenum was before this yesr you had to expect better then this. He's costing this team games.

Monetarily, yes, but Elway should have known better than to sign someone like that.

If he never signed Peyton Manning, Elway may not be here right now because he may have been fired. He needs to be held accountable.

[AKRNA]

I think this is a first for me. I can't ever remember a team that was as dominant as we were running the ball and as iffy as we were passing to call passing plays 60% of the time.

We won't be a finesse team this year and Keenum can't carry the passing game. We are built to be nasty up front though. We need to make use of that. 60-40 run to pass would be fine with me.

[SenorClean2k0]

I've defended Vance since he got here, I've always felt like he was dealt a bad hand and that we needed to be more patient with him. After tonight my mood has changed, this is 100% a game you can't lose being up 10 in the 4th. It's just going to make me angry writing up all the boneheaded mistakes we made at the end of this game, but this one was here for the taking and the coaching staff mismanaged the hell out of it. This was a classic case of playing scared at the end of the game, and getting beat because of it.

 

Going into this season I thought the roster didn't look great and we would be lucky to win 8 games, but after watching the first quarter of the season I honestly think with competent coaching this group could contend for a wild card spot. If we don't turn this thing around in a hurry, Vance will lose the locker room, the effort and record will spiral, Elway will come under fire, and we could be in for a wild ride. Not to sound too over dramatic, but I think these next four games are going to play a large role in the direction this team heads in the near future. 

[Broncofan]

5 minutes ago, SenorClean2k0 said:

I've defended Vance since he got here, I've always felt like he was dealt a bad hand and that we needed to be more patient with him. After tonight my mood has changed, this is 100% a game you can't lose being up 10 in the 4th. It's just going to make me angry writing up all the boneheaded mistakes we made at the end of this game, but this one was here for the taking and the coaching staff mismanaged the hell out of it. This was a classic case of playing scared at the end of the game, and getting beat because of it.

 

Going into this season I thought the roster didn't look great and we would be lucky to win 8 games, but after watching the first quarter of the season I honestly think with competent coaching this group could contend for a wild card spot. If we don't turn this thing around in a hurry, Vance will lose the locker room, the effort and record will spiral, Elway will come under fire, and we could be in for a wild ride. Not to sound too over dramatic, but I think these next four games are going to play a large role in the direction this team heads in the near future. 

The only game where we likely are favorites is @ARI...and that's just because ARI is just that bad.   

On paper, NYJ seems like a great draw - but their biggest strengths on D are awful matchups for us (their secondary takes out WR's really well, and their front 4 terrorizes bad pass pro OL's - we don't have great weapons to take advantage of bad LB play, which weakens their run D significantly).   Our only prayer is that Darnold's rookie learning curve makes him worse than Keenum is right now - I don't know that I can gamble that on anyone right now.   It's that bad with Keenum.    I'm not at all surprised that NYJ is a 2.5 point favorite - I suspect the line will move even more to NYJ barring injuries.    As for LAR and going to KC...fugghedaboutit. 

[broncofan48]

1 minute ago, Broncofan said:

The only game where we likely are favorites is @ARI...and that's just because ARI is just that bad.   

On paper, NYJ seems like a great draw - but their biggest strengths on D are awful matchups for us (their secondary takes out WR's really well, and their front 4 terrorizes bad pass pro OL's - we don't have great weapons to take advantage of bad LB play, which weakens their run D significantly).   Our only prayer is that Darnold's rookie learning curve makes him worse than Keenum is right now - I don't know that I can gamble that on anyone right now.   It's that bad with Keenum.    I'm not at all surprised that NYJ is a 2.5 point favorite - I suspect the line will move even more to NYJ barring injuries.    As for LAR and going to KC...fugghedaboutit. 

I get a bad feeling Keenum will pull something out of nowhere in one of those games just to prolong the suffering 

[AnAngryAmerican]

Truthfully, after watching the Chiefs the first three weeks, I thought we would get steamrolled tonight. The way we played, especially through the first three quarters, gave me a little bit of hope. I like the character of this team, the way they fight, the way they battle, I don't see a team mailing it in the way I saw last year. Now, it is only week 4. 

That said, the problems with this team - an incompetent coaching staff, a mediocre CB, a RT miscast as as LT, an aging defense with too many holes - that most of us here knew we had before the season began are still there. 

Is anyone really surprised with what we saw tonight?

[Broncofan]

Just now, broncofan48 said:

I get a bad feeling Keenum will pull something out of nowhere in one of those games just to prolong the suffering 

I think the key game is next week.   We could easily win that game.   If we do that and win vs. ARI, then we are 4-4.   And not out of it in a bad AFC.

I hate to say it, but I've seen nothing that says we are a real contender.   I know, ppl will say we were 1 play away from 3-1 - but after ARI/NYJ, we face CLE/OAK/SF (no JimmyG helps a ton) ..and then it's LAC x 2 (likely after Bosa is back, and DT Liuget helps shore up their run D) / @KC / LAR / HOU / PIT / CIN - and out of all those teams, only PIT has a bad pass rush D.  The others are going to kill us on pass rush.   And they have better O's.  

We have 5 winnable games (ARI/NYJ/CLE/OAK/SF with no JimmyG), and somehow we can always squeak a LAC x 2 / KC/ LAR / HOU / PIT / CIN, that's 8-8.    And I don't see us repeating 5-11.  But I also don't see any way to 9-10 W's, total pipe dream.   A 4-1 start was the only way I saw us guaranteeing 8-8 (although back then, @SF was shaping up to be bad, it's still tough, but way more winnable with CJ Beathard as their QB lol).   3-2, iffy.  2-3?   Fugghedaboutit.

You know my views - if we aren't a true contender, I'd rather build for the future.  If we lose to the Jets, it might sting next week, but overall, it might also get us a lot closer to think 2019, and let Kelly take over sooner (still don't see it until we're really out of it - but 2-3 gets us a lot closer to seeing things that way than 3-2..or at least Elway seeing it that way).

[broncofan48]

1 minute ago, Broncofan said:

I think the key game is next week.   We could easily win that game.   If we do that and win vs. ARI, then we are 4-4.   And not out of it in a bad AFC.

I hate to say it, but I've seen nothing that says we are a real contender.   I know, ppl will say we were 1 play away from 3-1 - but after ARI/NYJ, we face CLE/OAK/SF (no JimmyG helps a ton) ..and then it's LAC x 2 (likely after Bosa is back, and DT Liuget helps shore up their run D) / @KC / LAR / HOU / PIT / CIN - and out of all those teams, only PIT has a bad pass rush D.  The others are going to kill us on pass rush.   And they have better O's.  

We have 5 winnable games (ARI/NYJ/CLE/OAK/SF with no JimmyG), and somehow we can always squeak a LAC x 2 / KC/ LAR / HOU / PIT / CIN, that's 8-8.    And I don't see us repeating 5-11.  But I also don't see any way to 9-10 W's, total pipe dream.   A 4-1 start was the only way I saw us guaranteeing 8-8 (although back then, @SF was shaping up to be bad, it's still tough, but way more winnable with CJ Beathard as their QB lol).   3-2, iffy.  2-3?   Fugghedaboutit.

You know my views - if we aren't a true contender, I'd rather build for the future.  If we lose to the Jets, it might sting next week, but overall, it might also get us a lot closer to think 2019, and let Kelly take over sooner (still don't see it until we're really out of it - but 2-3 gets us a lot closer to seeing things that way than 3-2..or at least Elway seeing it that way).

Oh I agree playoffs are a pipe dream even if we sneak in it’ll just be an early exit.   But the pessimist in me sees Case playing well next week and then maybe winning a game we have no business winning.  Just enough for him to keep his job as we limp to 8-8

[AnAngryAmerican]

1 minute ago, Broncofan said:

I think the key game is next week.   We could easily win that game.   If we do that and win vs. ARI, then we are 4-4.   And not out of it in a bad AFC.

I hate to say it, but I've seen nothing that says we are a real contender.   I know, ppl will say we were 1 play away from 3-1 - but after ARI/NYJ, we face CLE/OAK/SF (no JimmyG helps a ton) ..and then it's LAC x 2 (likely after Bosa is back, and DT Liuget helps shore up their run D) / @KC / LAR / HOU / PIT / CIN - and out of all those teams, only PIT has a bad pass rush D.  The others are going to kill us on pass rush.   And they have better O's.  

We have 5 winnable games (ARI/NYJ/CLE/OAK/SF with no JimmyG), and somehow we can always squeak a LAC x 2 / KC/ LAR / HOU / PIT / CIN, that's 8-8.    And I don't see us repeating 5-11.  But I also don't see any way to 9-10 W's, total pipe dream.   A 4-1 start was the only way I saw us guaranteeing 8-8 (although back then, @SF was shaping up to be bad, it's still tough, but way more winnable with CJ Beathard as their QB lol).   3-2, iffy.  2-3?   Fugghedaboutit.

You know my views - if we aren't a true contender, I'd rather build for the future.  If we lose to the Jets, it might sting next week, but overall, it might also get us a lot closer to think 2019, and let Kelly take over sooner (still don't see it until we're really out of it - but 2-3 gets us a lot closer to seeing things that way than 3-2..or at least Elway seeing it that way).

I am with you 100% on this. 

That said, is there really any way they bail on Keenum after less than a full season, barring injury? I don't know, maybe if we go a skid and Vance gets canned and it's another entirely lost season but, and I said it when he we signed, I can't see them bailing on Case before the end of the year. You don't pay a guy $18m to pull him after less than a full season so long as he is healthy.