Defensive Personnel via Colbert

[3rivers]

3 hours ago, berlin calling said:

as an outsider i got the impression the Steelers 1st round picks lately have been wasted on athletes not football players. should maybe change the evaluation of player talent. i mean, Zadarius Smith hasn't been a world beater with the Ravens but i'd argue as a 4th round pick he's had a better career than his college team mate Dupree. 

exactly, combine pros not nfl pros.

 

9 minutes ago, Chieferific said:

I mentioned in the pre-draft process that when evaluating Dupree, Smith jumped off the screen. Dupree, not so much. 

I never liked watching dupree *** he was slow off the snap too often, and that is a fail in the NFL,

 

5 hours ago, August4th said:

 

This really is an embarrassment and how it continues reflect on the DC as well as the HC. Butler better be gone at the end of the year. I can't stand listening to him, and from this neither do his players. It doesn't matter how talented the players are, if they aren't on the same page or enough of them on the field (or too many on the field), then it's all a waste

[armsteeld]

Steelers are still drafting Cowher type players in a league that has evolved. Hell our guys can't even stop the run nor blitz nor cover. Those intermediate crossing routes and deep posts have been killing us for years. We lack a true FS and we lack any resemblance of a pass rush without blitzing. It will take some great scheming for us to make the playoffs 

QBs: A

RBs: C

FB: C

WR: A+

TE: A

OL: B+

DL: B

LB: D

CB: F

S: F

K: C

P: D

Offensive play call: C

Defensive play call: D-

Head Coach: C

*I'm looking at last year, including playoffs, off season, and the start to this season.*

[SMashMouthMike]

5 hours ago, armsteeld said:

Steelers are still drafting Cowher type players in a league that has evoled....

That lebeau 3-4 zone blitz was beautiful for stopping the run, making them nearly impossible to run against, and setting up 3rd and longs. Then came the faster spread/shotgun offenses and the PI rules, and two tight end zbs, and the targeting/roughing rules. The entire game of football has changed, and done so rather quickly. Now, 10 seasons after out 2008 superbowl defense and big ben to holmes in the corner, enough teams are adopting this stuff that the Steelers are caught trying to play catch up on defense, while their offense sputters and is tied up with some expensive contracts and disgruntled divas. They tried infusing some athleticism, youth, hybrid stuff, nickel base stuff, restructuring contracts and 1 experienced fa/year to make it adequate. But Shazier happened. I personally  hope they are about done with these bandaids, because they can't line up and beat either the Jags or the Patriots, let alone their divisional opponents at home . I think we are about done in 2018. 2019 doesn't look so hot right now either. It's a bad circus, with too many rodeo clowns, too many directions,  not enough Lions and competent leadership stepping up, and it's all steered towards an outdated vision on defense. A cascade of poop!

Mike vrabel is onto something in Tennessee. They just beat the Jags and the Eagles in consecutive weeks.

 

[Magnus-Viktor]

That is very true.  It is truly disgusting how bad they have been at drafting talent on D, outside of the DL, since Cowher retired.  The O has kicked it up a few notches at the skills positions, but the rest of the team, including coaching and discipline, has steadily headed right into the crapper.  Losing Shazier ripped the band-aid off.  He was so special with that 4.3 speed and fearless style that he took the place of 2 people, and freed up others to do much lesser roles in much smaller spaces.  Those splash plays breaking up a play for a loss instead of a long run to the edge were life savers.  

I said last year when he got hurt the season was over, because the D was going to be horrible without him.  Then going into the draft I wanted Roquan Smith or Leighton Vander Esch: 2 linebackers with range and coverage ability.  What do they do instead of even attempting to get an upgrade over the trash they had remaining at ILB?  Bostic.  A  FA who only commanded a 2 million dollar salary. 

 

Colbert and Tomlin both should be fired.  May as well get rid of the entire coaching staff except Munchak.  

[SMashMouthMike]

Does anybody in the NFL 2 gap anymore in their base defense?

Our d tackles and d-ends need to drop about 20 pounds/man in a month. Inside linebackers need to drop about 10 or so. OLB's need to drop about 5 or 10 too. Offense needs to execute better Ben, Fichtner, Brown. Everybody jams or chucks and wallops Tight ends and slot receivers and rbs and qbs. Take the penalties/fines if need be. Use guys while they're fresh or our best will get injured and worn down. whatever they're trying to do with their secondary isn't working. Learn to bump and run and wallop.

 

[43M]

11 hours ago, jebrick said:

Drafting in the back end of the draft means less talent available unless they trade up.  I think the talent is mostly fine.  I thnk the coaching and the scheme is stale

The NFL is cyclical.  It might just be the Steeler's turn

Id love to have a breakdown to support the logic that the talent is fine.   Not trying to call you out, but I wholeheartedly disagree.    

Not that your comment about the coaching and scheme being stale is wrong....but I think the talent is glaringly lacking.

Hargrave is a backup DT on most rosters.    He doesnt excel at anything and is JAG.

Dupree has zero technique and no real skills outside of his athleticism.

Bostic and VW are good blitzers.   They arent really any better than mediocre in any other phase of the game.

Burns is absolute garbage.   He is no instincts.   He is worse at tracking the ball in the air than Ike Taylor, who sucked at that as well.   I honestly cant think of anything he does well.   Might be the worst starting corner in the league.

Sean Davis....again, no idea what he does well.

You might be able to argue that some of these players could be coached up, but I dont know how much.     I dont think different schemes would benefit them much either.

Our DLine  IMO DOES suffer from the scheme....they arent letting Tuitt or Heyward play as aggressively as they should.

Our LB and secondary has ZERO playmakers, ZERO leaders and is very very limited in talent.

[3rivers]

If we get someone new in the FO that cuts or trades these wasted higher RD draft picks, it could send a message.  What I never liked about this regime is how they let their high RD picks get away with bad play and they keep their roster spot as well as keep starting.  If we got new blood in the FO, I could see them cleaning house and many of these players would be gone, and most of them will be out of the league in a few years after others try them out a few times.  I can't see burns or davis lasting in the league if they play like this. On any other team they are on the bench and probably cut or traded by now.  

Anyone else like the part when the steelers were down by 14 right away and the camera caught the D on the bench all sitting there like they were camping and next to a fire?  I never saw anyone going over X's and O's, technique with coaches or anyone leading and yelling about what is going on (like Lloyd used to do).  The team has many players to remove on this D from what I have seen, but as long as colbert is here so are most of them. 

If we only win 5 games,  what does Rooney do with this team?

 

[3rivers]

2 hours ago, SMashMouthMike said:

Does anybody in the NFL 2 gap anymore in their base defense?

Our d tackles and d-ends need to drop about 20 pounds/man in a month. Inside linebackers need to drop about 10 or so. OLB's need to drop about 5 or 10 too. Offense needs to execute better Ben, Fichtner, Brown. Everybody jams or chucks and wallops Tight ends and slot receivers and rbs and qbs. Take the penalties/fines if need be. Use guys while they're fresh or our best will get injured and worn down. whatever they're trying to do with their secondary isn't working. Learn to bump and run and wallop.

 

In my brief watch of the titans, they do some 2-gap I believe, and they chase until the whistle . Vrabel has a legit D there,  quite different than  compared to what we watch thats for sure .  They really matched the eagles in that game and deserved to win .  Eagles, Titans and Jags have solid defences and each is a different approach. It comes down to coaching and selecting the right players.  Those teams did a good job and it will show as the season goes on.  

[warfelg]

6 hours ago, SMashMouthMike said:

Does anybody in the NFL 2 gap anymore in their base defense?

Our d tackles and d-ends need to drop about 20 pounds/man in a month. Inside linebackers need to drop about 10 or so. OLB's need to drop about 5 or 10 too. Offense needs to execute better Ben, Fichtner, Brown. Everybody jams or chucks and wallops Tight ends and slot receivers and rbs and qbs. Take the penalties/fines if need be. Use guys while they're fresh or our best will get injured and worn down. whatever they're trying to do with their secondary isn't working. Learn to bump and run and wallop.

 

Plenty of teams still 2 gap.  Washington, Tennessee, Baltimore, LAC, NE, Hou.

The difference with those teams though?

They say screw it to both OLB's dropping, and let 1 of them just specialize in pass rushing and not worry about dropping, then they move them around.

[jebrick]

2-gap is part of a hybrid scheme.  NE has 2 players 2-gap and 2 play one gap.

[SMashMouthMike]

Ok. but what do we do with the zero technique NT? Does any body use that in their base anymore? I don't even believe we do. If this position is not needed or useful in our base,  then that scheme is dead-we just don't know it yet, right?

[jebrick]

13 minutes ago, SMashMouthMike said:

Ok. but what do we do with the zero technique NT? Does any body use that in their base anymore?

Part of the Hybrid defense.  Big Snack, in his prime would work fine in a Hybrid.  Wilfolk played 2 gap 0 or 1 tech for NE hybrid.  The Ravens have 2 NT playing 2 gap, Williams and Pierce.

[warfelg]

4 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Part of the Hybrid defense.  Big Snack, in his prime would work fine in a Hybrid.  Wilfolk played 2 gap 0 or 1 tech for NE hybrid.  The Ravens have 2 NT playing 2 gap, Williams and Pierce.

Houston still plays a 0-tech NT.  Seattle technically does, as does Atlanta despite being 4-3's.

I also think it's a place to talk about how people are too caught up in singular roles like this.  The Ravens play 2 NT playing 2-gap, but they also have 1 NT play 0 gap at times, and 2 NT playing 1 gap and 2 gap or 1 gap and 0 gap.

[Bobikus]

7 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Our DLine  IMO DOES suffer from the scheme....they arent letting Tuitt or Heyward play as aggressively as they should.

Heyward and Tuitt are our only top end players on defense and we play a scheme that handcuffs them because we use the DL only has a means of setting up the LBs to make plays, and our LBs aren't good enough to make those plays.

I think the athletes over football players drafting of the last few years was the FO overreacting hard to Jarvis Jones being a huge bust, who was the biggest example of college production but no athleticism.

[Blitzburgh]

I disagree with them drafting Cowher type players.  I think they are just drafting athletes and hoping they can be made into football players. Al Davis type moves.  I also think they have had very specific player in mind in the last few drafts.  They make it painfully obvious only to have them taken a few picks before. They seem to panic after that.  I would like to hope they have a plan B, but it certainly doesn’t seem like it.   

I think there is a major lack of talent, coaching, and discipline.  For Tomlin being such a great DC coming in it certainly doesn’t show. 

I agree that picking toward the back end of the draft has been a big problem for us too.  I don’t thinking sitting tight is the best strategy.  With how draft picks are being overvalued these days I think it would be wise to try to leverage that and get creative to get what we need or want.