Week 4 MNF KC @ DEN GD Thread

[Gannon12]

12 minutes ago, Classic said:

After tonights game @NFLExpert49 and @AkronsWitness confirmed Pat Mahomes haters.

They hate what they can’t understand. The second coming is upon us 

[Broncofan]

 

I truly hope anyone who thinks Case Keenum is an OK QB saw tonight's game, to understand just how untrue that statement is.    Facing the absolute bottom 3 pass D coverage team tonight (Tampa and KC seem to be fighting it out), Keenum laid a stinker.  It was ONLY because of how bad KC's pass D was that we almost pulled it out - not because of heroics from DEN. 

To truly grasp how bad Keenum was tonight:

1.  The INT was partly on Huermann, for not ball-fighting - but Keenum gets that ball to lead Huermann, and it's a non-issue.

2.   Keenum missed at least 4-5 open guys...not just DT for the GW TD.    

3.   KC's pass coverage was ABYSMAL tonight - and Keenum simply couldn't take advantage.   The missed TD to DT was just the icing on the cake.

Now, if we are spreading blame:

1.  The D play calling on 2nd and 30 was just brutal.   I am also NOT a fan of putting Von in coverage on key plays.   Shane Ray got heat - but maybe Von gets there.  Sorry, I love being more aggressive in pass coverage, but Woods negated much of it by having that 2nd and 30 call and then leaving Von in coverage in key moments. 

2.  And the O play calling, while I love what OC Musgrave has done, cost us the game in 1 key way - it got really too cute and pass-heavy when our run game was dominating KC in the 1Q and 2Q.   We should have been up more than 13-10.   And that cost us.  I'd also point out the 3rd down run by Freeman was an awful call that he bailed out, and that 4th down conversion by DT was a similar play.     I totally understand our need to exploit KC's pass D - but when we're getting 6-8 yard runs on 1st down, getting away from that in the 1H, well, it caught up to us bigtime in the 2H when our D tired out.   I mean, who calls play-action to start the 2-minute drill with 1 TO left?   REALLY?  Man.  SMH.

3.  Our OL pass blocking is absolutely terrible.   LT Bolles actually got away with 3 takedowns on the last 2 drives, which weren't flagged, on top of his 1H miseries in which Justin Houston just plain schooled him.  I counted 4-5 takedowns along with the 2 sacks.   I'm glad to hear that Billy Turner was OK at RT after our starter Veldheer left - but Bolles is simply not a good pass blocking LT.   He's an absolute mauler in the run game, and if we use him at RT, his limitations in pass blocking probably wouldn't cost us nearly as much.   And yes, it's a sunk cost to have spent 1.20 on RT (Ryan Ramczyk & Cam Robinson) alone when there were better talents even at T (let alone ILB Reuben Foster, or the trade up for OJ Howard, all of which were available last year), but Elway's shown he's willing to move on and not compound sunk costs, he really needs to consider consolidating our OL that way next draft.

4.  I gave P Marquette King a pass for bad weather struggles last week - but he wasn't great this week.   Now, to be clear, he's not the biggest problem we have.  But we should get better play.

5.  ILB Todd Davis is a helluva character guy - but he's a total liability out there.  He again got burned on key plays - and worse, started jawing at teammates for the miss, when it was on him.  THAT is what I was saying before about making him captain that seemed iffy.   Your captain doesn't have to be your best player - but he shouldn't be the guy getting toasted, either.  

I won't post  only the negative notes, I do want to highlight the positives:

1.  Our D played their hearts out, and played with everything they had.   I'm proud of that unit.   They had KC down to 13 points until they ran out of steam..and Mahomes went into magician mode.  ILB Josey  Jewell and FS Darian Stewart played with nastiness I want to see more of (Stewart cleanly laid out Kelce, and Jewell really bullied Hunt a couple of times).    The D broke down at the end - because they were gassed (and yes, OC Musgrave owns that for getting us away from the run so we didn't lose ToP 35-25), and then DC Woods compounded it with the crazy D calls. 

2.  Our OL's run blocking, admittedly vs. a bad KC run D, performed admirably.  For as much as I give the starting T's hell for their inability to pass block, their run blocking was top 5-10 tonight.

3.  Our WR's DT, Sanders and Sutton all made key plays when they had to that extended drives (DT crazy play call 4th down play and a couple of 3rd down conversion, Sanders on 2 3rd downs, and Sutton that DPI and 2 big catches).    One of DT / Sanders has got to go, and Sutton fits DT's profile way better, so it's going to be DT, but any questions on DT's desire should be quelled, he's just too $$ to keep for what he is now, no issues with that, but no need to characterize the issue as more than that.  It was also nice to see our TE's get in the action.

4.  McManus really did earn his keep tonight.   Great on KO's too.

5.  Our RB's - hell, even Booker played well.  But really, we see how much the future is Royce Freeman as the hammer, and Philip Lindsey as the lightning (who has enough wiggle to still play in the RZ, that jumpcut before the TD run was a thing of beauty).   IMO, Lindsay was deployed perfectly run-wise - 12 rushes, just would have liked to see way more than 8 carries for Freeman, he was a horse tonight. 

Having said that, we saw tonight vs. a terrible pass D, just how limited Case Keenum was.  And we saw a coaching staff that for some reason, went away from their strengths at key moments (run game in 1H when we were dominating, and then using Von in coverage in key moments in the 3Q/4Q).  

I'm proud of our team's fight.   I really do have nothing but love and respect for our young guys.   We have a lot of hope.  But we will go NOWHERE with Case Keenum.   And yes, as much as I loved Chubb's play tonight - a franchise QBOTF would help us a lot more.    It's just that simple.   Let's just hope Elway gets lucky and Chad Kelly shows us something - because I think we all know even though the change isn't coming yet - it's just a matter of when, and not if, on when Keenum's time is done.    

[Broncofan]

BTW, a HUGE tip of the cap to Patrick Mahomes.   He was a pure magician.   Everyone will point to the 3rd down left-handed throw.  But there were 5-6 plays where he felt the rush, avoided it, and then moved around the pocket - and made A-Rod level throws through paper-thin windows with his cannon that were on the money.    I just SMH at the young greatness he pulled off with their 2nd WR out of the game, their TE pulling a goose egg in the 1H, and Tyreke Hill way off his usual game.    That was an identity-making type game, to win down 10 on the road, less than 10 mins to go, in a raucous Mile High.

I've always prided myself on being a loyal Broncos fan, so it hurts for me to say this - but the Chiefs' cap misery and awful roster construction (in totally making a lopsided roster with an awful D) won't matter nearly as much with Mahomes on that team.  He'll no doubt lose some games due to boneheaded gunslinger plays - but he's also going to win a bunch like tonight with his insane talent.    This team's likely not going far this year when they face good teams (in the playoffs), but they'll be perennial contenders for the playoffs at worst with him as QB for that O...now to fix that horrid D (but hey, a lot easier to do that than to find cheap franchise QB's).

We can all say we were witnesses to his true coming out party (it's one thing to throw 5-6 TD's in a blowout, but the magical comeback with what he displayed...well I stand in awe...and can only applaud).  MUCH respect to #15.

[Gannon12]

Ohhhhh my man that was an incredible book!

[Broncofan]

35 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

The Cheifs 'blatantly' ran out of time to run a play. Therefore negating the play. Per the NFL rules. But they are the NFLs new hard-on so they get the pass. If the refs would have dont their obvious job it would have been 3rd and a million and they would have won the game.

Its pretty easy concept to understand. Just like the refs randomly spotting the Raiders a game because of a reviewed horrific call. Its really not hard when you have the visual evidence.

 

32 minutes ago, kingseanjohn said:

Except you're looking at it as a viewer. In real time, the ref watching the clock and snap determined it was simultaneous. Without being able to slow down time or watch both at the exact same moment, it was a close judgement call. Like I said, it could have gone either way. But Morse began the snap as the clock hit was hitting zero so he thought it was good.

No one on the field slowed up, thinking "hey, the clock went to 0".  It's not reviewable, and frankly, it's a play that we see at least 6-7x a week happen.

To go out and say DEN would have won that with that call, sorry, not a believer at all.   If anything, probably just shortens the clock for our attempted comeback.

The beauty of the L this way is it cemented home just how bad Case Keenum really is.   Just like how ppl fall over themselves for Nick Foles last playoffs (2 games), and then Fitzmagic this year - it was Keenum last year.   Yes, it was a solid year.  But it was a mirage, fuelled by the 2nd-easiest QB schedule to face pass D's, an elite D that didn't give up points early, and only needed 17 pts per game to win from their O, and an insanely talented WR/TE corps that helped him play up (and top 10 OL play to boot, when healthy last year).  People forget his awful 2H play let NO back in, thx to the Minny Miracle..but it was there.  Just like he (and the rest of the team to be fair) got schooled by PHI.   But instead of looking at the pre-2017 multiple seasons and realizing 2017 was an outlier created by the best of circumstances, Elway & Kubiak chose to believe, "hey, we can keep this mojo going, Keenum made MIN really good"...except it was MIN that really made Keenum really good.    Oh well, at least it's only 1 more year, and we have another body not named Paxton Lynch to throw at the wall (and believe me, even if Chad Kelly fails, just the fact that it's not Keenum and Lynch as our only 2 options, it's amazing how much better that sounds....even with Kelly being totally unproven lol).

[Chargers]

18 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

 

I truly hope anyone who thinks Case Keenum is an OK QB saw tonight's game, to understand just how untrue that statement is.    Facing the absolute bottom 3 pass D coverage team tonight (Tampa and KC seem to be fighting it out), Keenum laid a stinker.  It was ONLY because of how bad KC's pass D was that we almost pulled it out - not because of heroics from DEN. 

To truly grasp how bad Keenum was tonight:

1.  The INT was partly on Huermann, for not ball-fighting - but Keenum gets that ball to lead Huermann, and it's a non-issue.

2.   Keenum missed at least 4-5 open guys...not just DT for the GW TD.    

3.   KC's pass coverage was ABYSMAL tonight - and Keenum simply couldn't take advantage.   The missed TD to DT was just the icing on the cake.

Now, if we are spreading blame:

1.  The D play calling on 2nd and 30 was just brutal.   I am also NOT a fan of putting Von in coverage on key plays.   Shane Ray got heat - but maybe Von gets there.  Sorry, I love being more aggressive in pass coverage, but Woods negated much of it by having that 2nd and 30 call and then leaving Von in coverage in key moments. 

2.  And the O play calling, while I love what OC Musgrave has done, cost us the game in 1 key way - it got really too cute and pass-heavy when our run game was dominating KC in the 1Q and 2Q.   We should have been up more than 13-10.   And that cost us.  I'd also point out the 3rd down run by Freeman was an awful call that he bailed out, and that 4th down conversion by DT was a similar play.     I totally understand our need to exploit KC's pass D - but when we're getting 6-8 yard runs on 1st down, getting away from that in the 1H, well, it caught up to us bigtime in the 2H when our D tired out.   I mean, who calls play-action to start the 2-minute drill with 1 TO left?   REALLY?  Man.  SMH.

3.  Our OL pass blocking is absolutely terrible.   LT Bolles actually got away with 3 takedowns on the last 2 drives, which weren't flagged, on top of his 1H miseries in which Justin Houston just plain schooled him.  I counted 4-5 takedowns along with the 2 sacks.   I'm glad to hear that Billy Turner was OK at RT after our starter Veldheer left - but Bolles is simply not a good pass blocking LT.   He's an absolute mauler in the run game, and if we use him at RT, his limitations in pass blocking probably wouldn't cost us nearly as much.   And yes, it's a sunk cost to have spent 1.20 on RT (Ryan Ramczyk & Cam Robinson) alone when there were better talents even at T (let alone ILB Reuben Foster, or the trade up for OJ Howard, all of which were available last year), but Elway's shown he's willing to move on and not compound sunk costs, he really needs to consider consolidating our OL that way next draft.

4.  I gave P Marquette King a pass for bad weather struggles last week - but he wasn't great this week.   Now, to be clear, he's not the biggest problem we have.  But we should get better play.

5.  ILB Todd Davis is a helluva character guy - but he's a total liability out there.  He again got burned on key plays - and worse, started jawing at teammates for the miss, when it was on him.  THAT is what I was saying before about making him captain that seemed iffy.   Your captain doesn't have to be your best player - but he shouldn't be the guy getting toasted, either.  

I won't post  only the negative notes, I do want to highlight the positives:

1.  Our D played their hearts out, and played with everything they had.   I'm proud of that unit.   They had KC down to 13 points until they ran out of steam..and Mahomes went into magician mode.  ILB Josey  Jewell and FS Darian Stewart played with nastiness I want to see more of (Stewart cleanly laid out Kelce, and Jewell really bullied Hunt a couple of times).    The D broke down at the end - because they were gassed (and yes, OC Musgrave owns that for getting us away from the run so we didn't lose ToP 35-25), and then DC Woods compounded it with the crazy D calls. 

2.  Our OL's run blocking, admittedly vs. a bad KC run D, performed admirably.  For as much as I give the starting T's hell for their inability to pass block, their run blocking was top 5-10 tonight.

3.  Our WR's DT, Sanders and Sutton all made key plays when they had to that extended drives (DT crazy play call 4th down play and a couple of 3rd down conversion, Sanders on 2 3rd downs, and Sutton that DPI and 2 big catches).    One of DT / Sanders has got to go, and Sutton fits DT's profile way better, so it's going to be DT, but any questions on DT's desire should be quelled, he's just too $$ to keep for what he is now, no issues with that, but no need to characterize the issue as more than that.  It was also nice to see our TE's get in the action.

4.  McManus really did earn his keep tonight.   Great on KO's too.

5.  Our RB's - hell, even Booker played well.  But really, we see how much the future is Royce Freeman as the hammer, and Philip Lindsey as the lightning (who has enough wiggle to still play in the RZ, that jumpcut before the TD run was a thing of beauty).   IMO, Lindsay was deployed perfectly run-wise - 12 rushes, just would have liked to see way more than 8 carries for Freeman, he was a horse tonight. 

Having said that, we saw tonight vs. a terrible pass D, just how limited Case Keenum was.  And we saw a coaching staff that for some reason, went away from their strengths at key moments (run game in 1H when we were dominating, and then using Von in coverage in key moments in the 3Q/4Q).  

I'm proud of our team's fight.   I really do have nothing but love and respect for our young guys.   We have a lot of hope.  But we will go NOWHERE with Case Keenum.   And yes, as much as I loved Chubb's play tonight - a franchise QBOTF would help us a lot more.    It's just that simple.   Let's just hope Elway gets lucky and Chad Kelly shows us something - because I think we all know even though the change isn't coming yet - it's just a matter of when, and not if, on when Keenum's time is done.    

 

I just looked up his stats. 

61.7%   988yds  3TDs  6ints. That looks awful but it's even worst since his only thrown 1 TD in 3 weeks.

[Broncofan]

3 minutes ago, Classic said:

 

I just looked up his stats. 

61.7%   988yds  3TDs  6ints. That looks awful but it's even worst since his only thrown 1 TD in 3 weeks.

And that's facing the 30th and 31st ranked pass D's by DVOA too.     I mean, imagine if they didn't face Keenum, how bad their stats would be.

[blizofoz45]

1 hour ago, PapaShogun said:

John Elway has to be beside himself thinking about facing Mahomes twice a year for the next ten plus. 

It could be worse.  He could be co-hosting a pregame show with Terry Bradshaw.

[DalCowboyzRule]

2 hours ago, NFLExpert49 said:

This was the most ridiculous play-by-play announcer reproductive organ sucking of a QB I have ever heard in all my years watching football. He's talking like Mahomes is Michael Jordan meets Wayne Gretzky meets Usain Bolt, and he didn't even play that well in this one. 

Absolutely absurd. He's not "Showtime" and he's not "Kid Wonder." He's a guy who is off to a fast start in the most laughably soft defensive era in NFL history, where the offense is even more out of control than it was from 2011-2017. 

Lol did Patty flex on you too hard or what?

[Jakuvious]

2 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Its not a hater. Pat Mahommes and the Cheifs had a bad game if the refs actually called the blatant delay of game and it would have been 3rd and 36 with 0 wins.

I don't think you understand how delay of game works. On the 2nd and 30 play, Mahomes snapped the ball with 7 seconds left. So definitely no delay of game there. If there had been a dealy of game, it still would've made it 2nd and 35 anyway, not 3rd and 36.

So I assume you mean the next play. That was a 3rd and 7. Definitely was snapped with 0 on the clock. Though it's pretty common knowledge that they let it go a secondish. Typically a ref is watching the clock, once it hits zero they turn to see if it's been snapped, so there's a small delay there. Happens a few times a game. But even if they had call it, which would've been fine, that would've been 3rd and 12. Not 3rd and 36. Delay of game is a 5 yard penalty. Not...29 yards.

Now, 3rd and 12 still isn't a great situation. But, 4 down territory at that point. Two plays to get 12 yards isn't tough for our offense. And considering we threw a 35ish yard pass on the 3rd and 7 play, I would be surprised if that 5 yards made a huge difference. It certainly wouldn't have guaranteed that the game was over, like you're suggesting it would've.

You're just wrong on several levels here.

[DalCowboyzRule]

1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

BTW, a HUGE tip of the cap to Patrick Mahomes.   He was a pure magician.   Everyone will point to the 3rd down left-handed throw.  But there were 5-6 plays where he felt the rush, avoided it, and then moved around the pocket - and made A-Rod level throws through paper-thin windows with his cannon that were on the money.    I just SMH at the young greatness he pulled off with their 2nd WR out of the game, their TE pulling a goose egg in the 1H, and Tyreke Hill way off his usual game.    That was an identity-making type game, to win down 10 on the road, less than 10 mins to go, in a raucous Mile High.

I've always prided myself on being a loyal Broncos fan, so it hurts for me to say this - but the Chiefs' cap misery and awful roster construction (in totally making a lopsided roster with an awful D) won't matter nearly as much with Mahomes on that team.  He'll no doubt lose some games due to boneheaded gunslinger plays - but he's also going to win a bunch like tonight with his insane talent.    This team's likely not going far this year when they face good teams (in the playoffs), but they'll be perennial contenders for the playoffs at worst with him as QB for that O...now to fix that horrid D (but hey, a lot easier to do that than to find cheap franchise QB's).

We can all say we were witnesses to his true coming out party (it's one thing to throw 5-6 TD's in a blowout, but the magical comeback with what he displayed...well I stand in awe...and can only applaud).  MUCH respect to #15.

Love it my man.

I've been telling people about Pat since 2014, glad the nation got to catch on tonight (or at least has been the last 4 weeks). His game as a true freshman against a top 5 Baylor squad is still the most amazing thing I've seen out of a freshman, and I watched Alan Bowman throw for 605 yards 3 weeks ago. He had so many amazing games in college it was unreal. Such a shame we literally put out the worst defense in the nation in both of his years starting at Tech...

 

[Jakuvious]

1 minute ago, DalCowboyzRule said:

Love it my man.

I've been telling people about Pat since 2014, glad the nation got to catch on tonight (or at least has been the last 4 weeks). His game as a true freshman against a top 5 Baylor squad is still the most amazing thing I've seen out of a freshman, and I watched Alan Bowman throw for 605 yards 3 weeks ago. He had so many amazing games in college it was unreal. Such a shame we literally put out the worst defense in the nation in both of his years starting at Tech...

 

On the bright side, it seems to have prepared him for this year.

[Plat2]

AkronsWitness and NFLExpert the same guy? Lol

[Broncofan]

3 hours ago, packerbacker87 said:

What a fun game to watch. Both playoff teams

 

3 hours ago, game3525 said:

Yeah....I am not sure about that.

 

3 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

You really think two teams from that division are going to the playoffs? 

Can't say I agree with that take.

[DalCowboyzRule]

39 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

On the bright side, it seems to have prepared him for this year.

*Insert Alonzo Mourning head shake and acceptance gif*