State of our team

[Bitty 2.0]

46 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Literally been hearing this for the last 15 years. There are always "building blocks" and "potential" with the Raiders. Where are the star players? Oh right.... sent to another team and the other can't get the ball thrown to him.

All that money and draft picks means, to quote Jim Mora Sr., diddly poo. Who you spending the cash on? And who in this cesspool of an organization can draft players well?

I get you want to be optimistic.... but you have to be real. There is no star talent on this roster. The HC (Gruden) is wearing the pants and has a proven track record of failure building a roster and developing talent. The owner is Gruden's puppet in all honesty. He gave a big ego 100 million reasons to feel entitled to everything in the organization.

In summary, poor feckless ownership. Megalomaniac HC/GM who's proven he can't build a roster in complete control. No checks and balances when it comes to FA, the draft, etc. How do you remedy this situation? 

 First off Gruden build the Raiders the first time and Tampa Bay he was hamstrung by trading 2 first and 2 second round picks .

  How are you supposed to build a team with no draft picks?

[holyghost]

He built the roster the first time, true. But in a different era he built an old team. Some very important lucky strikes - Gannon, Rice, and so on. And after 4 years of some success the team imploded due to age. Bear that in mind - this team has yet to recover 15 years later from the ill effect of that implosion. In THIS era, with the league wide speed and athleticism at a peak, you simply can't have an old team like that any more. Right now we are living proof, being utterly murdered weekly by athleticism.

So what he built, he can't build again. And he's neither the play caller, game planner or disciplinarian he was the first time around. Whether any of those skills return is debatable.  After all is said and done, the real question now is "can he adapt". With no help, no organizational structure, and no checks and balances on his wild ideas and ego. Build a different type of team from scratch in this era, to win in this era. 5 games in says hell no. Major major missteps before we even played a game. Including trading off your absolutely best player, changing the blocking scheme of the only good unit on your team and upsetting your only game day advantage, hiring a much maligned coach with issues for that unit, and rapidly accumulating the oldest roster in the league. 

I will say on the record that there is no way that Gruden operating alone has any chance in this era of fixing this by himself. If he has no semblance of an organization around him, no way, I will commit to saying it (playoffs, much less SB victory) will not happen. I just hope that if all does continue to go bad:

1. He resigns like he said he would.

2. Before the team and what's left of the actual talent is completely dismantled.

3. Mark Davis sells the team soon after the move to Vegas so maybe one day Raider fans have a chance at normalcy. As of now the Raiders don't even have a fair competitive footing because there is noone to right this ship and no plan to do so that makes any sense. There is no Raiders' front office. Mind blowing.

 

[Humble_Beast]

next offseason is going be huge for Gruden and the team....  Gruden really put his back against the wall with the Mack trade... basically destroy any chance we had to being decent and killed the good vibes in the locker room... Gruden going really need to nail this draft in 2019, develop his 2018 class and other youth, and sign 6-7 impact free agents next offseason..... we just lacking talent right now. Mack was so great, he even out the the playing field, and covered up the holes on this team...

[Bitty 2.0]

12 hours ago, holyghost said:

He built the roster the first time, true. But in a different era he built an old team. Some very important lucky strikes - Gannon, Rice, and so on. And after 4 years of some success the team imploded due to age. Bear that in mind - this team has yet to recover 15 years later from the ill effect of that implosion. In THIS era, with the league wide speed and athleticism at a peak, you simply can't have an old team like that any more. Right now we are living proof, being utterly murdered weekly by athleticism.

So what he built, he can't build again. And he's neither the play caller, game planner or disciplinarian he was the first time around. Whether any of those skills return is debatable.  After all is said and done, the real question now is "can he adapt". With no help, no organizational structure, and no checks and balances on his wild ideas and ego. Build a different type of team from scratch in this era, to win in this era. 5 games in says hell no. Major major missteps before we even played a game. Including trading off your absolutely best player, changing the blocking scheme of the only good unit on your team and upsetting your only game day advantage, hiring a much maligned coach with issues for that unit, and rapidly accumulating the oldest roster in the league. 

I will say on the record that there is no way that Gruden operating alone has any chance in this era of fixing this by himself. If he has no semblance of an organization around him, no way, I will commit to saying it (playoffs, much less SB victory) will not happen. I just hope that if all does continue to go bad:

1. He resigns like he said he would.

2. Before the team and what's left of the actual talent is completely dismantled.

3. Mark Davis sells the team soon after the move to Vegas so maybe one day Raider fans have a chance at normalcy. As of now the Raiders don't even have a fair competitive footing because there is noone to right this ship and no plan to do so that makes any sense. There is no Raiders' front office. Mind blowing.

 

You said it can’t recovery from Gruden I say the team is being kept down by Reggie.

Let’s take a look at Reggies time at the Raiders.

He hired Dennis Allen and kept them for three years.

He wouldn’t tell Jack Del Rio to fire Ken Norton Jr.

He drafted 

JT Hayden open heart surgery.

Menelik Watson two years playing football

Mario Edwards Jr Underachieved and overweight at Florida State.

Neiron Ball brains injury

Jihad Ward was converted from WR for DT( Little playing experience at DT)

Karl Joseph 5’9 SS

Eddie Vanderdoes. Knee issues in college hurt knee first year in the NFL.

Free agency busts

Khalif Barnes, Austin Howard,Justin Tuck ,Antonio Smith, LaMarr Woodley, Maurice Jones-Drew and Sean Smith.

That’s just some of the free agents the list is too long.

 

[dante9876]

I only hold drafting against reggie. Some of those free agents isn't all his fault. He took over a mess of a franchise. With little young talent and over paid player stressing the cap. I think people have given reggie a pass. He is not a good gm. He is a good executive or assistant gm. That's it. His contract work is good. 

 

It's funny how everybody has sour on reggie when there was a poster who been saying reggie was trash for 2 years now and just about everybody would pick on him for it. 

[SimonGruber]

10 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

You said it can’t recovery from Gruden I say the team is being kept down by Reggie.

Let’s take a look at Reggies time at the Raiders.

He hired Dennis Allen and kept them for three years.

He wouldn’t tell Jack Del Rio to fire Ken Norton Jr.

He drafted 

JT Hayden open heart surgery.

Menelik Watson two years playing football

Mario Edwards Jr Underachieved and overweight at Florida State.

Neiron Ball brains injury

Jihad Ward was converted from WR for DT( Little playing experience at DT)

Karl Joseph 5’9 SS

Eddie Vanderdoes. Knee issues in college hurt knee first year in the NFL.

Free agency busts

Khalif Barnes, Austin Howard,Justin Tuck ,Antonio Smith, LaMarr Woodley, Maurice Jones-Drew and Sean Smith.

That’s just some of the free agents the list is too long.

 

Khalif Barnes was Al the only real high priced free agent he whiffed on was Sean Smith and Austin Howard. It’s his drafting that fans have soured on. 

[Bitty 2.0]

4 minutes ago, SimonGruber said:

Khalif Barnes was Al the only real high priced free agent he whiffed on was Sean Smith and Austin Howard. It’s his drafting that fans have soured on. 

It’s all part of the same thing Reggie had tens of millions for 5 years to spend on FAs and all he has to show for it is 4-5 good players.

[true2form]

21 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Typically, I would agree with you. I always try to look on the plus side. I supported McKenzie for years, preaching patience. But it's been 15+ years of being bottom feeders in the NFL. Knee jerk reactions aside, there is a fundamental issue at the top of this organization that is holding it back. 

To look at this old roster, void of playmakers and struggling QB and a coach who is making questionable decisions and thinking there is some upside.... I'm losing hope. Looks more SSDD to me. More commitment to mediocrity. 

I completely understand.  How can any of us ask for patience after all we've been through? Unfortunately, that's where we are each and every time we change coaches.

Maybe that's why I'm looking at this differently.  Gruden may not last all 10 years, but he certainly isn't going to be fired after 2 or 3 seasons like most of our coaches.  This gives me some hope that there is a chance for him to build something.  I also watched every bit of the last go around.  Al Davis may have been in charge, but Gruden's hands were all over that roster.  West coast scheme was all him and went directly against everything Al stood for.  First 2 years for Gruden, 8-8 each season. Success wasn't instantaneous and it took him a few years to get the roster the way he wanted it.

I know everybody is sour on Carr right now, but I'll beat my drum for him until half way through next season at least.  He's played 5 games in this system!!  His best season? His second season with the only OC he had for 2 years in a row.  Yes, he has made some horrible throws, but take a look around the league. Every QB has those.  The biggest concern I have is him and Cooper not always being on the same page.  I think to myself, they've been together for years now.  I have to remind myself that Cooper is in a new offense too and doesn't always no where to be yet. It's hard for a QB who doesn't fully trust his WR's yet in a new system.

I'm sure I could go on and on, but the point once again is patience.  I understand if you don't have any left.

 

 

[holyghost]

I am no Reggie apologist. And it's clear he's not the best GM in the league. Laying the entire blame at his feet masks the ongoing issue anyway.

But without a proper organizational structure I can't even really tell which decisions were his and which he allowed to happen as deference to prior staffs. What I would need to know is who ran the 2014 draft? And who ran the others? I know Reggie was the GM for all of them, but who was the one really making those choices? It seems to me 2014 was the only draft where he picked based on players disregarding system and staff. But that could be just appearances. Certainly the first draft and Bergstrom were a deference to the system they were running. 2015, 2016 very much seem like drafts based on need, guys Del Rio wanted at certain positions. 

How can a team even be run where in the course of 6 years you're picking based on 3 or 4 different draft philosophies? Does anyone else realize that your scouting staff is then tasked with scouting guys 4 different ways, or for 4 different player types? A mess. You're changing the scouts' entire approach almost every year. If a scout is good at what he does, 1 year later he has to take an entirely different view. Can't build scouting skills or stability, and go deep into player finding if the scouts are relearning every year what they are even looking for. 

What I do know however is that the guy (Reggie) was tasked with an entire organizational rebuild that stretched way beyond putting a team together. That is NOT a GM's job. And he still is operating without numerous other front office employees other teams have for all kinds of jobs involved in running a team. 

And I do know that he has not wielded power. He's exerted no definitive control over the team. It really seems he's deferred constantly to the whims of staff and others. If a GM intends to change an organization he has to proceed with some sort of iron sense of what the right and wrong decisions are. It's called vision. He's got none. He may or may not have scouting ability, but no vision. He seemed to have it at first when he cleaned house on the payroll, but it all fizzled and got dissolved along the way when it came time to put something back together with a specific vision. 

I'm not here to decide whose fault the past is. I am here to say that Gruden and/or Reggie can and will never be able to build a good and consistently winning team without a proper staff all aligned towards the same purpose and some checks and balances. I'll state it again. Gruden is running the Raiders right now without a GM with any power, a team president, an assistant GM, and others. He's on an island, and there is noone there as a voice of reason to say this is a good idea or a bad idea. Which is why and how the Mack trade, old roster, Cable hire, and line scheme change blunders happened in the first place. Gruden is being plopped down in the seat of power and learning by f'ing things up. If he is learning at all. We can only pray he is learning, and that he learns something before all and any talent we have left is gone. 

[big_palooka]

2019 will be telling. The FO will be overhauled. Reggie will be out and Gruden will bring in his own guy. And he needs to. He needs someone who can lead from the top by getting value in trade, working the draft and salary caps, etc. 

 

[SilverNBlackFan]

2 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

2019 will be telling. The FO will be overhauled. Reggie will be out and Gruden will bring in his own guy. And he needs to. He needs someone who can lead from the top by getting value in trade, working the draft and salary caps, etc. 

 

I know we tried to get Elliot Wolf this offseason but he chose the browns. Will be interesting to see if he reconsiders once Reggie is gone

[SimonGruber]

13 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

2019 will be telling. The FO will be overhauled. Reggie will be out and Gruden will bring in his own guy. And he needs to. He needs someone who can lead from the top by getting value in trade, working the draft and salary caps, etc. 

 

Long as it isn’t Bruce Allen or some dinosaur retread  I’ll be good

[true2form]

Just playing Devil's Advocate, what if Reggie returns in 2019?

I have a feeling he will and everything being said is blown out of proportion.  I could easily be wrong.

 

[holyghost]

1 hour ago, true2form said:

Just playing Devil's Advocate, what if Reggie returns in 2019?

I have a feeling he will and everything being said is blown out of proportion.  I could easily be wrong.

 

Then in reply I would say that we're going to see the same steady diet of unclear power structure, erratic and head scratching decision making based on no clear direction, and more dysfunction. 

Considering for 15 years we have been a disastrous organization in constant dysfunction and without direction, none of this is blown out of proportion. It's quite real. And the product of it is the circus we watch play every Sunday. 

To the other posters above, if Gruden adds his guy let's pray it's someone he gives actual clout to. It will be a dinosaur unless he cedes some power right off the bat. An up and coming guy like Eliot Wolf will never take this job. Not unless it's an actual GM position with corresponding control. 

[big_palooka]

2 hours ago, true2form said:

Just playing Devil's Advocate, what if Reggie returns in 2019?

I have a feeling he will and everything being said is blown out of proportion.  I could easily be wrong.

 

Gruden has thrown him under the bus. Reversed back over him. Parked the bus on top of him. Saturated the bus in gasoline. Lit the match and tossed it inside while walking off. We're just waiting for the explosion now.