Where's the Edge Rush?

[MKnight82]

Through 3 games played:

Ryan Kerrigan - 2 tackles, 0 sacks (78.1%)

Preston Smith - 8 tackles, 0 sacks (80.9%) 

Pernell McPhee - 1 tackle, 0 sacks (21.9%)

Ryan Anderson - 2 tackles, 1 sack (19.1%)

*the % shown is the number of defensive snaps each has played so far.

 

If I told you in preseason Ryan Anderson would be the only OLB on the roster with a sack 3 games in you'd call me crazy.  Through 3 games the Redskins have 7.0 sacks, which ranked 28th in the league:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/defense/sort/sacks 

 

6 of those sacks have come from the starting Front 3:

Jonathan Allen - 10 tackles, 2 sacks (74.3%)

Daron Payne - 10 tackles, 1 sack (72.7%)

Matt Ioannidis - 5 tackles, 3 sacks (44.8%)

*the % shown is the number of defensive snaps each has played so far.

 

So far the only pressure has come from inside, which is good to see but its also concerning that the edge guys aren't getting there because the guys up front performing better should make everyone better.  Washington's 7.0 sacks ranks only 28th in the league (which obviously is somewhat misleading because we've only played 3 games, but still its not a great ranking).  Its not likely to get much better either, with the Redskins next two opponents being the Saints and Panthers, who are tied for 24th with only 6 sacks allowed each.  

 

So there are a couple of solutions to this: 

#1 - Obviously just get better play from Ryan Kerrigan and Preston Smith, who are getting the majority of the snaps on the edge.  Increased play from these guys could really elevate our defense to the next level.  

#2 - Cut back Kerrigan and Smith's snaps and give McPhee and Anderson more attempts.  I'm not sure McPhee or Anderson have shown that they are better options, so I don't think this is the best answer.  

#3 - Play Matt Ioannidis on more snaps.  If you look at the total snap counts played you can see the team is playing Payne and Allen as the two down lineman in nickle formations.  Maybe this isn't the best personnel, maybe Ioannidis should be playing over one of the first rounders in nickle sets.  Traditionally 3-4 defenses pull their NTs off the field in obvious passing situations, we don't seem to be doing that.  

#4 - Make a drastic midseason trade for an upgrade to the pass rush.  This is highly unlikely but I guess its a possibility.  

 

So I'm hoping for #1, but I'd dabble in #3 to see if I could get a better result.  

[Woz]

Again, I wonder: can we somehow use a four man front that combines Allen, Payne, and Ioannidis on the field at the same time? Maybe put Allen at LDE?

[MKnight82]

13 minutes ago, Woz said:

Again, I wonder: can we somehow use a four man front that combines Allen, Payne, and Ioannidis on the field at the same time? Maybe put Allen at LDE?

Well you'd have to take either Preston Smith or Ryan Kerrigan off the field for that.  Manusky seems to like dropping either Smith or Kerrigan into coverage several times a game, I can't see Allen doing that.  So you'd have to stop doing that too, but that makes too much sense.  

[Woz]

Just now, MKnight82 said:

Well you'd have to take either Preston Smith or Ryan Kerrigan off the field for that.  Manusky seems to like dropping either Smith or Kerrigan into coverage several times a game, I can't see Allen doing that.  So you'd have to stop doing that too, but that makes too much sense.  

Well ... yes.

If they're only getting pressure from the defensive linemen (what a switch from recent events!), then why not try to find a way to get them on the field more often? If that means someone who is not getting the job done is sitting on the bench more ... okay. You want playing time? Get the QB. It's quite simple.

[Thaiphoon]

Sign Gallette

[turtle28]

Oh stats... ughh 

Plenty of analysis has been done - outside of just stats - from those who watch the All-22 to show that Kerrigan and Preston are playing well. They are pushing their OTs back and then the QB can’t go anywhere and the interior pass rushers get upfield, collapse the pocket and the DTs clean up and get a sack.

Also, Preston has been in coverage a lot, I’m not sure of the percentages but I have to guess it’s at least 25% of the time Preston is in coverage. Several times on 3rd down I’ve commented and been like why isn’t Preston rushing the passer?!

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, Thaiphoon said:

Sign Gallette

That’s meaningless at this point. He’s not going to get snaps over Kerrigan or Preston.

Re-signing Galette in March made sense instead of signing Pernelle McPhee but Galette turned down our offer, and now he remains unemployed, go figure?

Even he himself admited in retrospect that turning down the Redskins offer in March was a mistake.

[lavar703]

I stopped feeling bad for Galette when he turned down an extremely generous offer because he thought he could get more. The Redskins showed him loyalty through his injuries and stuck with him and then made him a more than fair offer which he turned down. He’s only regretting it now because no other offer even came close. 

[Thaiphoon]

3 hours ago, turtle28 said:

That’s meaningless at this point. He’s not going to get snaps over Kerrigan or Preston.

Re-signing Galette in March made sense instead of signing Pernelle McPhee but Galette turned down our offer, and now he remains unemployed, go figure?

Even he himself admited in retrospect that turning down the Redskins offer in March was a mistake.

Yes, he did. But he'd sign for the vet minimum and he knows the defense. If our guys aren't getting it done then I want him signed.

[Thaiphoon]

2 hours ago, lavar703 said:

I stopped feeling bad for Galette when he turned down an extremely generous offer because he thought he could get more. The Redskins showed him loyalty through his injuries and stuck with him and then made him a more than fair offer which he turned down. He’s only regretting it now because no other offer even came close. 

Don't disagree. But I don't see any pass rush off the edge from anyone on the team so far. The one thing I know he can bring is that. This is not about feeling bad for him or anything related to our previous offer. Just a recognition that there is a guy who I know can get after the QB and he's available. Meanwhile the guys we THOUGHT were gonna be able to do the job, aren't

[turtle28]

12 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

Yes, he did. But he'd sign for the vet minimum and he knows the defense. If our guys aren't getting it done then I want him signed.

I don’t think he’s going to provide any different pass rush than Kerrigan, Smith and McPhee.

It was widely reported by John Keim and others that the offenses we faced the first two weeks were going with a quick passing game and getting the ball out on avg in 2.3 seconds. I’m sure it was the same last week with the one legged Rodgers. It’s nearly impossible to get the QB as an outside pass rusher if the QB is getting rid of the ball in about 2 seconds unless you’re unblocked.

I’ll also once again point out that our OLBs are getting pressure - the QBs are just getting the ball out quick - but they are barely missing missing sacks. A lot of those pressures have forced incompletions - and a few ints - and when the OLBs are getting the edge pressure and keeping the QB in the pocket it’s helping the DL. The young DL are getting a push up front, the OLBs are pushing the pocket from the edge, and this is one reason why our interior lineman have 7 sacks.

It’s the opposite of what used to happen with our DL. From 2010-2017 (minus 2011 & the 1st month of 2017) our OLBs would push the pocket and get pressure on the edge and the QBs would just step up and complete a pass but with Allen, Ioannidis and Payne they haven’t been able to do that as much - or at all.

[ripsean21]

17 hours ago, Woz said:

Again, I wonder: can we somehow use a four man front that combines Allen, Payne, and Ioannidis on the field at the same time? Maybe put Allen at LDE?

At this point with a 4 man Nickel front id have Matt out there over Smith!!! Smith sucks and he has shown far too often he isn’t worth big money!!! He is a rotational player and nothing more!!! This would be the first year in a long time since I believe I said I’d be okay with Vic Beasley in the first I’d be okay with a edge guy in the first. Previously I wasn’t open because we needed the middle beefed before again investing about top two pick on edge guys!!! But if there isn’t a stud ILB or WR and Cristian Wilkins isn’t avalible I’d say you grab that top Edge guy but this year we have to hit on a serious game changer who will be a game wrecker!!

[turtle28]

18 hours ago, Woz said:

Again, I wonder: can we somehow use a four man front that combines Allen, Payne, and Ioannidis on the field at the same time? Maybe put Allen at LDE?

I’d have no problem with this, I guess my question is, who are the LBs? Are we putting JHC in to play a WLB? Are we playing Smith at SLB in this look? Or Brown with Foster in the middle?

Obviously another issue is that that we’ve never tried this in years. So, we’re just going to do this on the fly mid season? That’s a concern to me. I think creating another wrinkle to our D - which honestly seems unneeded - could create more problems and more missed assignments that it will help our D be better. I’m specifically talking about having 3 LBs out there behind a DL of Kerrigan or Smith, Payne, Ioannidis and Allen.

 I don’t like this line up for our nickel package. For our nickel package, I think we need to have two edge rushers and a combination of Kerrigan, PSmith and McPhee out there.

[Woz]

Just now, turtle28 said:

I’d have no problem with this, I guess my question is, who are the LBs? Are we putting JHC in to play a WLB? Are we playing Smith at SLB in this look? Or Brown with Foster in the middle?

Possible lineup:

Allen - Payne - Ioannidis - Smith
    Kerrigan - Brown - Foster(*)

 

(*) I put the asterisk there because he would be the weak link. Maybe JHC there instead. Dunno. The coaching staff gets paid the big bucks to figure things like that out.

 

Just now, turtle28 said:

Obviously another issue is that that we’ve never tried this in years. So, we’re just going to do this on the fly mid season? That’s a concern to me. I think creating another wrinkle to our D - which honestly seems unneeded - could create more problems and more missed assignments that it will help our D be better.

1. The Redskins haven't had this talent in defensive linemen in years, so there was never a need to try.
2. They just got off their bye week. Seems like a good time to try some new wrinkles out.
3. Given how little pass rush they are getting from their "pass rushers" and how much they are getting from their defensive linemen, I think it is absolutely needed.

 

Just now, turtle28 said:

 I don’t like this line up for our nickel package. For our nickel package, I think we need to have two edge rushers and a combination of Kerrigan, PSmith and McPhee out there.

And why not? What have those three done when the nickel package has been in play? Pressure is nice and all, but that doesn't mean that passes become incomplete.

[turtle28]

41 minutes ago, Woz said:

Possible lineup:

Allen - Payne - Ioannidis - Smith
    Kerrigan - Brown - Foster(*)

 

(*) I put the asterisk there because he would be the weak link. Maybe JHC there instead. Dunno. The coaching staff gets paid the big bucks to figure things like that out.

 

1. The Redskins haven't had this talent in defensive linemen in years, so there was never a need to try.
2. They just got off their bye week. Seems like a good time to try some new wrinkles out.
3. Given how little pass rush they are getting from their "pass rushers" and how much they are getting from their defensive linemen, I think it is absolutely needed.

 

And why not? What have those three done when the nickel package has been in play? Pressure is nice and all, but that doesn't mean that passes become incomplete.

I hate the idea of having Kerrigan at SLB and having to cover in space.

If we’re going to do this, Preston would have to be the SLB or off the field with LHC coming in to play WLB. Foster is more of a MLB, Brown is more of an OLB (he’s played both WLB, SLB and 3-4 ILB) in his career so that’s where I’d put them.

In nickel I like it when we have more pass rushers on the field with obviously a 3rd corner or 3rd safety or a safety/JHC playing as ILB.