The 3 RB's

[Gopackgonerd]

1 minute ago, Cadmus said:

Did we all forget about Darius Jackson?

Jackson>Jones tbh

[AlexGreen#20]

https://imgur.com/mKZ6WQL

I didn't realize Jones got Rodgers tagged here on that 3rd and 8 in the third quarter. 

If you're wondering why Jones sat for two drives, that might be it. 

This wasn't even out of the no huddle. That was the group McCarthy chose to have out there for that play.

I don't think this is the play that set Rodgers off, I think that was Adams spending 85% of his snaps as the LWR and never moving from that spot, but this wasn't good. Probably cost us a TD.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

2 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

https://imgur.com/mKZ6WQL

I didn't realize Jones got Rodgers tagged here on that 3rd and 8 in the third quarter. 

If you're wondering why Jones sat for two drives, that might be it. 

This wasn't even out of the no huddle. That was the group McCarthy chose to have out there for that play.

I don't think this is the play that set Rodgers off, I think that was Adams spending 85% of his snaps as the LWR and never moving from that spot, but this wasn't good. Probably cost us a TD.

LeRoy Butler breaks this down on X's and O's at packersnews.com.

He doesn't put this on Jones.  

[AlexGreen#20]

13 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

LeRoy Butler breaks this down on X's and O's at packersnews.com.

He doesn't put this on Jones.  

Even Leroy in the breakdown says this could be on Jones.

Also the idea that on a slide right, your LT can't standard pass block is blatantly wrong. I can pull six examples of it from this game alone.

+++

The very next drive, we have a slide right with Williams in the game.

https://imgur.com/xvKCuJB

+++

I can just tell you, slide right/slide left with RB filling opposite side B gap is the very first protection most Offensive Lineman are taught. That was my first day of 5th grade practice.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Even Leroy in the breakdown says this could be on Jones.

Also the idea that on a slide right, your LT can't standard pass block is blatantly wrong. I can pull six examples of it from this game alone.

There's a very similar play with Williams where he comes across the formation to block.

Point is though this is hard to put on Jones unless you know the call, which neither you, nor I , nor LeRoy know.

Rodgers would have a free runner to deal with no matter how they played that.  Ideally, it would have been one of the edge guys, so whether this was a miscommunication on the line or Jones, Rodgers needs to get the ball out faster.

Lack of execution here goes deeper than just Aaron Jones.

[AlexGreen#20]

19 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

Point is though this is hard to put on Jones unless you know the call, which neither you, nor I , nor LeRoy know.

Rodgers would have a free runner to deal with no matter how they played that.  Ideally, it would have been one of the edge guys, so whether this was a miscommunication on the line or Jones, Rodgers needs to get the ball out faster.

Lack of execution here goes deeper than just Aaron Jones.

If Jones takes the inside rusher, the edge guy has to run all the way around that four man stunt skrimish going on and this is a TD. 

You can go back through all the slide right calls in this game. Every one has the RB coming back inside. 

I actually just quickly paged through it, there's not a single other play in this game for our offense where the RB and Center stepped the same direction in pass protection.

[SSG]

3 hours ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

Point is though this is hard to put on Jones unless you know the call, which neither you, nor I , nor LeRoy know.

Rodgers would have a free runner to deal with no matter how they played that.  Ideally, it would have been one of the edge guys, so whether this was a miscommunication on the line or Jones, Rodgers needs to get the ball out faster.

Lack of execution here goes deeper than just Aaron Jones.

I agree.  Butler pretty clearly said that he didn't think it was Jone's assignment because he'd have had to go across the QB for a near impossible block (the near impossible is MO).  

I think it's pretty safe to say that we don't know who's fault it was.  Blaming just Jones on that play seems like another attempt to short sell his great game. I'm all for calling out his mistakes, but I don't think that was one of them.  Personally, without a dive at the defender, I don't like his chances of even chipping that defender because of his location in the formation.  That defender was on AR12 in less than 2 seconds.

[AlexGreen#20]

17 minutes ago, SSG said:

I agree.  Butler pretty clearly said that he didn't think it was Jone's assignment because he'd have had to go across the QB for a near impossible block (the near impossible is MO).  

I think it's pretty safe to say that we don't know who's fault it was.  Blaming just Jones on that play seems like another attempt to short sell his great game. I'm all for calling out his mistakes, but I don't think that was one of them.  Personally, without a dive at the defender, I don't like his chances of even chipping that defender because of his location in the formation.  That defender was on AR12 in less than 2 seconds.

There's a half dozen examples of running backs going across the QB for a block in this game alone. It's more common than staying on the side you're at. Leroy is talking out of his ***.

That's not a near impossible block. I posted an example of Williams making the same play on the very next drive. That's a block RBs are taught the first day of practice when they start playing football. If Jones can't move 4 feet in 2 seconds, he's the least athletic RB ever. 2 seconds is an eternity in pass protection.

[SSG]

7 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

There's a half dozen examples of running backs going across the QB for a block in this game alone. It's more common than staying on the side you're at. Leroy is talking out of his ***.

That's not a near impossible block. I posted an example of Williams making the same play on the very next drive. That's a block RBs are taught the first day of practice when they start playing football. If Jones can't move 4 feet in 2 seconds, he's the least athletic RB ever. 2 seconds is an eternity in pass protection.

We'll have to agree to disagree.  I'll take the pro's opinion and leave it at that.  I don't agree that it was "the same play"  given that the play call, offensive formation and defensive formation were all COMPLETELY different. Buffalo brought 5 with the 5th getting there extremely late because of a chip by Graham.  Absolutely no similarities to them overloading the right and bringing 6 off the LOS on the snap (JMO).

[AlexGreen#20]

6 minutes ago, SSG said:

We'll have to agree to disagree.  I'll take the pro's opinion and leave it at that.  I don't agree that it was "the same play"  given that the play call, offensive formation and defensive formation were all COMPLETELY different. Buffalo brought 5 with the 5th getting there extremely late because of a chip by Graham.  Absolutely no similarities to them overloading the right and bringing 6 off the LOS on the snap (JMO).

I don't think you've ever listened to WSSP if you are taking Butler's word as gospel.

You don't see any similarities between a slide right protection and a slide right protection?

Are you still sticking with your characterization of Jones' misread as an impossible block?

[SSG]

22 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

You don't see any similarities between a slide right protection and a slide right protection?

Are you still sticking with your characterization of Jones' misread as an impossible block?

You are correct.  I do not believe that Jones' responsibilities stay exactly the same when there is a TE there to chip.  Neither you nor I know what his responsibilities truly were on that play (I agree with Butler's evaluation).  If he was responsible for evaluating the right at all then I think it was an impossible block.  If you are right and and his blocking responsibilities are exactly the same (opposite side B gap always his first responsibility) whether there is a TE there to chip or not then he might have made it if his first move was to that left side B gap (Like Williams in your example).  Would have been really close IMO.  

Just because I agree with Butler's evaluation doesn't mean I'm taking his opinion as gospel.  

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

11 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I don't think you've ever listened to WSSP if you are taking Butler's word as gospel.

You don't see any similarities between a slide right protection and a slide right protection?

Are you still sticking with your characterization of Jones' misread as an impossible block?

I get that you are pretty sure of your interpretation, but the second play seems to me a different situation.

Just look at Linsley's assignment in each.  In the second he blocks 95 who is offset to his right, but in the first play Linsley leaves him to Taylor to go farther right.  It is not really a slide right on the second, and they don't leave an unblocked player on the defensive front.  

You could be right- Jones may have blocked the wrong guy.  I think the point is we as fans can't say for sure.  I know you think you can, but really, without knowing the call none of us can say for sure.  All we can say is not everyone was on the same page.

 

[AlexGreen#20]

1 hour ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

I get that you are pretty sure of your interpretation, but the second play seems to me a different situation.

Just look at Linsley's assignment in each.  In the second he blocks 95 who is offset to his right, but in the first play Linsley leaves him to Taylor to go farther right.  It is not really a slide right on the second, and they don't leave an unblocked player on the defensive front.  

You could be right- Jones may have blocked the wrong guy.  I think the point is we as fans can't say for sure.  I know you think you can, but really, without knowing the call none of us can say for sure.  All we can say is not everyone was on the same page.

 

In the first play, the guy in front of Linsley is in a straight 0-tech. In the second play he's in a 1-tech shaded to Linsley's right. 

When you slide right, the Center is responsible for right side A gap. The Guard is responsible for left side A gap. A guy playing 1-tech is a threat to right side A. A guy playing 0-tech is a threat to left side A. That blocking is entirely consistent with a slide right call.

The only caveat I have to this is that Rodgers as a field general needs to know his personnel. He needs to give Jones that heads up, because that's not an easy read.

As far as not seeing an open guy, you're looking at a stunt. The guy that Bakhtiari is matched with takes a delay step up and then stunts rather than running the outside rush like the first play.

[Norm]

None of this sounds right, but I don't know enough about protections to dispute it.

-a character from its always Sunny

[Mazrimiv]

Seems clear enough that Jones is easily the best runner of the three.  Seems equally clear he's also the weakest of the three in pass pro.  The pass pro thing is a big deal, so I don't have any real problem understanding why Jones isn't dominating the RB snaps.  Just have to hope he gets a better feel for it as he goes.  Far from a sure thing that he can carry the full load anyway.  I expect a significant timeshare will always be part of his usage pattern.