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[Broncofan]

7 minutes ago, lomaxgrUK said:

My comments were using weed as an example of NFL fans responding to someone being banned for weed - I wasn't trying to insinuate that Kelly has smoked weed.

Chad can have no complaints at all. What an utter moron. Best chance he will ever get at starting an NFL QB ruined by attending a party half way through the season.

Yeah, everything I said above worked on the assumption that this was a benign, "got drunk/high...wrong place"..and that was it.

I said we should wait for more info until we get more info - the extra info completely damns Chad Kelly.  I have no problem to say it's the right call now, I was wrong on being lenient on him (mind you, without the extra info, but still).   I said the punishment should fit the crime, the crime as it turns out, was way worse than initially reported - got into fight with guest, then took on security, then went off angry and to that house...that's not a benign, "oops got lost" moment.  No problem here to say I was too easy on Kelly yesterday.

 

[broncofan48]

2 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

I think they traded a 3rd for this-year insurance, and if Brees retires, then yeah.  But worst case...Bridge gets paid, and nets them a comp pick probably at end of 3rd/end of 4th.

The problem is that the stopgap QB market isn't nearly as saturated...so we'd be spending a TON to get him.  At least I see potential...but man, again, nothing against Chubb, but a rookie-level deal for Rosen, looks like an absolute no-brainer (and yes, I know he looked awful vs. us - look at the whole body of work, and his progression behind the worst OL in the game, and no talent around him except DJ and young guys who will get better, and it's still incredibly positive - let's put it this way, ARI is probably really happy we took Chubb and Rosen, and probably wouldn't even take a call with Elway for a Chubb-Rosen swap - that's how important QB is...sigh).

Dude I think we all agree we missed out on the best odds of QBOTF is this draft, especially looking towards next year but what's done is done.  Chubb's on the team Rosen isn't what matters is what Elway does next.  If his next hand picked guy fails then the comparisons to Rosen, Allen, Jackson et al will be used to determine whether or not he keeps his job.  

[Broncofan]

3 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

Dude I think we all agree we missed out on the best odds of QBOTF is this draft, especially looking towards next year but what's done is done.  Chubb's on the team Rosen isn't what matters is what Elway does next.  If his next hand picked guy fails then the comparisons to Rosen, Allen, Jackson et al will be used to determine whether or not he keeps his job.  

Yeah, sorry, didn't mean to pick at a scab there lol.  Just sucks, Kelly would have been the one way we avoided a dreaded Rd1 reach.  It's hard to get excited about anyone there, at least anyone who will be there when we pick. 

To move things forward, the double whammy is that last year was a good year to get cheap stopgap QB's - Bridge at 5M/1 year, McCown at 10M/1 year.   It's not crazy to think Bridge will get better than Keenum $ if he hits FA - because he's going to be literally the only option that's attractive, and the draft is going to look really ugly.  Carr isn't going to get outright released in this scenario, we know what Gruden will do - hold on, and then trade.   

The ONLY blessing is that the QB market is so ugly next year...we MIGHT be able to get someone to bite on a trade.  But that would require Keenum to actually play about 10x better than he has so far.  His play is getting worse, not better.

[broncofan48]

Just now, Broncofan said:

Yeah, sorry, didn't mean to pick at a scab there lol.  Just sucks, Kelly would have been the one way we avoided a dreaded Rd1 reach.  It's hard to get excited about anyone there, at least anyone who will be there when we pick.

I mean, I was excited about Kelly, but lingering in the back of my mind was all the late round QBs Denver fans have fawned over.  I too am worried about the first round QBs looking at 2019.  Especially if Herbert doesn't declare.  Elway has to be too, there's no way he wants to reach on a guy with major bust potential.  I could really see him chasing Carr, pairing him back up with Musgrave and seeing if they can recreate the magic.  

I just don't see John hooking his proverbial wagon to a guy like Haskins, but I could be wrong

[bMiller031]

1 minute ago, Broncofan said:

Yeah, sorry, didn't mean to pick at a scab there lol.  Just sucks, Kelly would have been the one way we avoided a dreaded Rd1 reach.  It's hard to get excited about anyone there, at least anyone who will be there when we pick.

Keenum's $21m ($10m dead) on the books for 2019 potentially pushes the QB selection to 2020, right? 

I mean, selecting a QB in rd 1 this year isn't a no brainer for Elway, right?

[Broncofan]

Just now, broncofan48 said:

I mean, I was excited about Kelly, but lingering in the back of my mind was all the late round QBs Denver fans have fawned over.  I too am worried about the first round QBs looking at 2019.  Especially if Herbert doesn't declare.  Elway has to be too, there's no way he wants to reach on a guy with major bust potential.  I could really see him chasing Carr, pairing him back up with Musgrave and seeing if they can recreate the magic.  

I just don't see John hooking his proverbial wagon to a guy like Haskins, but I could be wrong

I mean, tools...limited experience, and flaws in non-throwing areas galore.   I'm not saying he's a guranteed bust..but how would we all feel knowing DEN's staff was trying to develop this guy, knowing how well we do with these types?  Ugh.

[Broncofan]

3 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

Keenum's $21m ($10m dead) on the books for 2019 potentially pushes the QB selection to 2020, right? 

I mean, selecting a QB in rd 1 this year isn't a no brainer for Elway, right?

Desperation does a lot of crazy things to a GM...like signing Keenum for 36/2 in a bid to win-now.

It's kind of ironic - I just went from hoping Keenum is benched for good and released...to almost hoping we eat the contract, and wait for 2020 for a QB - rather than get a Rd1 project who has no business getting picked in Rd1 altogether.  I mean, our outlook for 2019 just took a HUGE hit.  Not that Kelly was for sure the answer - but we know Keenum isn't.   If we go into 2019 with Keenum as the QB, it better be with the understanding we're tanking HARD for 2020's class - and let's face it, Elway is NOT wired that way.

[bMiller031]

2 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

  I could really see him chasing Carr, pairing him back up with Musgrave and seeing if they can recreate the magic.  

I think if Carr is an option, you do what you can to make it happen. Even if it means splitting with a day 1-2 draft pick.

Having the QB position resolved and settled for the foreseeable 10-12y is infinitely valuable. 

[broncofan48]

Just now, Broncofan said:

Desperation does a lot of crazy things to a GM...like signing Keenum for 36/2 in a bid to win-now.

I think with a few more very likely losses, if Keenum keeps looking like he has, Elway is going to feel major pressure to find a QB.  He hasn't done anything without Peyton and he knows it.

I really like the emphasis on high character guys in the draft, and if he can keep morphing the character of the team to one filled with Jewell's and Sutton's then I'm all for Elway keeping on as the GM.  But until he finds a QB, which Keenum isn't he is going to feel the heat.

[bMiller031]

1 minute ago, Broncofan said:

It's kind of ironic - I just went from hoping Keenum is benched for good and released...to almost hoping we eat the contract, and wait for 2020 for a QB - rather than get a Rd1 project who has no business getting picked in Rd1 altogether.

Good point. Because Keenum is owed $10 of $21m either way -- the question becomes: is 2019 Keenum worth $11m on this team?

[Broncofan]

1 minute ago, bMiller031 said:

I think if Carr is an option, you do what you can to make it happen. Even if it means splitting with a day 1-2 draft pick.

Having the QB position resolved and settled for the foreseeable 5-6 yrs is infinitely valuable. 

I think if you're getting a QB on his 2nd contract, it's probably not 10 years.  Guys like Brees/Brady are the exception.

The issue will be the $ and the picks.   If we ONLY had to give up a Day 2 pick...yeah, it's worth considering.  Day 1, not so much, given Carr's so expensive.   

[broncofan48]

Just now, bMiller031 said:

I think if Carr is an option, you do what you can to make it happen. Even if it means splitting with a day 1-2 draft pick.

Having the QB position resolved and settled for the foreseeable 10-12y is infinitely valuable. 

That's where I'm coming down at.  Trade a 2nd and + for Carr (probably have to send someone like DT or Keenum if they'd take him to make the cap fit) , OL heavy in FA/draft, move Bolles to RT.  Have a good offense next year with Carr, Lindsay, Freeman, Sutton, Sanders, Hamilton and the defense should be decent next year to maybe even compete for the playoffs.

[Broncofan]

4 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

That's where I'm coming down at.  Trade a 2nd and + for Carr (probably have to send someone like DT or Keenum if they'd take him to make the cap fit) , OL heavy in FA/draft, move Bolles to RT.  Have a good offense next year with Carr, Lindsay, Freeman, Sutton, Sanders, Hamilton and the defense should be decent next year to maybe even compete for the playoffs.

That's the key though - we need a premium difference maker with our Rd1 pick, and cheap if we are going to be better.   Carr for a 1st removes that, and worse, costs a ton - so we don't get cap-healthy long-term.

I'm all for a Day 2 pick for Carr...but a firm no on Day 1.  The guy we get there in this year's class will be a cheap rookie who makes an immediate impact.  DE or T is most likely - and yes, we absolutely need T - Bolles may never work out as a LT, and if so, good problem to worry about later, having 2 bookend T's who can play is a huge plus (if Bolles ends up as a RT, it's a bust Rd1 pick, but it's also a sunk cost - please, Elway, if you are willing to absorb sunk costs on the rest of the 2017 draft, don't stop here, get Bolles another T so he can move to RT).

The sad epitath to the Kelly saga, is that only 2 guys are left on our roster with any hope of doing anything from 2017's draft picks - Bolles & Walker.  And let's face it, for Day 1-2 picks, it's fair to say we haven't seen the returns expected.  Walker is really worrisome, because this is the year he's supposed to at least contributing in the rotation.   Man.   At least 2017 was so bad...it made Elway completely change his approach and embrace metrics and football skills for 2018.

[broncofan48]

1 minute ago, Broncofan said:

That's the key though - we need a premium difference maker with our Rd1 pick, and cheap if we are going to be better.   Carr for a 1st removes that, and worse, costs a ton - so we don't get cap-healthy long-term.

I'm all for a Day 2 pick for Carr...but a firm no on Day 1.  The guy we get there in this year's class will be a cheap rookie who makes an immediate impact.  DE or T is most likely - and yes, we absolutely need T - Bolles may never work out as a LT, and if so, good problem to worry about later, having 2 bookend T's who can play is a huge plus (if Bolles ends up as a RT, it's a bust Rd1 pick, but it's also a sunk cost - please, Elway, if you are willing to absorb sunk costs on the rest of the 2017 draft, don't stop here, get Bolles another T so he can move to RT).

The sad epitath to the Kelly saga, is that only 2 guys are left on our roster with any hope of doing anything from 2017's draft picks - Bolles & Walker.  And let's face it, for Day 1-2 picks, it's fair to say we haven't seen the returns expected.  Walker is really worrisome, because this is the year he's supposed to at least contributing in the rotation.   Man.   At least 2017 was so bad...it made Elway completely change his approach and embrace metrics and football skills for 2018.

Yea no way I want to trade away the 1st.  Besides Gruden has enough of them already

[Broncofan]

8 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

That's where I'm coming down at.  Trade a 2nd and + for Carr (probably have to send someone like DT or Keenum if they'd take him to make the cap fit) , OL heavy in FA/draft, move Bolles to RT.  Have a good offense next year with Carr, Lindsay, Freeman, Sutton, Sanders, Hamilton and the defense should be decent next year to maybe even compete for the playoffs.

Probably a year too soon.   I look at it the other way - we'll probably end up 8-8, but our O looking so much better, and our team so much younger.    Get rid of all the high-priced talent except Von & Harris, keep only the bare bones (Paradis & Harris), and get young and cheap.  And then watch us really take off for 2019.  But instead of looking old, outdated, and despairing about our future, we could have a fun O, a young team, and real hope.  I'd take that in a heartbeat even if we didn't make playoffs, than have the mirage of 2016, where we were hanging on, and our best talent was aging, and getting more expensive.  

The thing is, though, we can't overpay in $$ or picks.  We're not good enough.  So we cannot pay a Rd 1 pick for Carr.   We need that cheap contract filling a huge need in the trenches (or CB, but I think trenches is where we will end up selecting BPA, DE or T).