Nostalgic/Throwback games chat thread

[7DnBrnc53]

12 hours ago, kwolf68 said:

By 1988 the Bears started to look old before their time. They won the Fog Bowl, then got dismantled by Frisco in the NFC Title game and the 1980s run was over. If you have a chance, you better strike, because it doesn't come around often. The 1980s Bears could have been a dynasty. Oh well. 

They did go to the playoffs two more times with Ditka, but those teams weren't that good. The Central Division made them look good. Without that, Ditka may have been gone earlier.

[kwolf68]

On 5/28/2020 at 11:02 AM, 7DnBrnc53 said:

They did go to the playoffs two more times with Ditka, but those teams weren't that good. The Central Division made them look good. Without that, Ditka may have been gone earlier.

Yep, they lost to the Giants (badly) in 90 and then Dallas in 91. The Bears really should have won that game in 91, but they were really no threat otherwise. Dallas wasn't quite ready in 91. 

But you are right, a tougher division at that time and it could have fallen sooner. Ditka, I think could have been great, but he lost his way and fell in love with himself (and his celebrity) too much. 

His over-use of William Perry in the backfield eventually became an obnoxious circus side show, eventually costing Walter Payton a TD in that game. He won the Super Bowl, then we had "Da Bears" on Saturday Night live where, constant run ins with the media, the inability to handle any type of criticism and an ever eroding sense of maturity sowed the seeds of Ditkas destruction. He took his clown show to New Orleans and we saw how that ended.

Love him as a football player and he did bring back pride and toughness to the Bears, but he didn't reach any great heights as a coach.

Edited May 30, 2020 by kwolf68

[kwolf68]

On 5/28/2020 at 4:56 AM, PapaShogun said:

I know Ditka got the Bears their only Super Bowl, but I've felt he was overrated. Just seemed really more of a "rah rah" guy that relied more on motivation. His tenure in New Orleans was just atrocious. 

LOL you can say that again. He did bring that "passion" to the table and I thought he was a really good coach at first. He wasn't overly innovative, but his teams were typically well prepared, and they were not a 3-yards and a cloud of dust team (despite lackluster QB and receiver play most years). Ditka also showed the ability to make in game adjustments and had pretty good instincts. But the promise he showed his first 3 or 4 years quickly vanished under the pall of Ditka's own hubris. He was clearly a Hall of Fame player, he has no business in Canton as a coach. 

[rfournier103]

On 5/28/2020 at 4:56 AM, PapaShogun said:

I know Ditka got the Bears their only Super Bowl, but I've felt he was overrated. Just seemed really more of a "rah rah" guy that relied more on motivation. His tenure in New Orleans was just atrocious. 

Almost everyone knows buddy Ryan handled the Defensive Xs and Os and that’s what really won the Super Bowl. Ditka might be a good coach, but needed a lot of help from his staff. 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

1999 Week 11 Indianapolis Colts (7-2) at Philadelphia Eagles (3-7)

Sunday Nov 21, 1999
Start Time: 1:02pm
Stadium: Veterans Stadium
Attendance: 65,521
Time of Game: 3:15

 

Peyton Manning in his 2nd year against rookie Donovan McNabb. Jim Mora versus Andy Reid. This game was a bloodbath for the Eagles, and probably their worst played game all year long. They end up making the Colts look like the 1985 Bears, and are completely overwhelmed, looking like an expansion team at times in the process. At halftime the score is 30-3, and the Eagles only have 40 yards, which included -25 yards passing. Halfway through the 3rd quarter, the score balloons to 44-3. The Eagles get some leeway against the Colts backups in the 4th, but all in all this was a long day at the office during Reid's first year. It's remarkable that he managed to improve the squad to 11-5 in his 2nd year. 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by PapaShogun

[7DnBrnc53]

On 5/29/2020 at 10:57 PM, kwolf68 said:

His over-use of William Perry in the backfield eventually became an obnoxious circus side show, eventually costing Walter Payton a TD in that game. He won the Super Bowl, then we had "Da Bears" on Saturday Night live where, constant run ins with the media, the inability to handle any type of criticism and an ever eroding sense of maturity sowed the seeds of Ditkas destruction. He took his clown show to New Orleans and we saw how that ended.

The Perry use cost them in a MNF game against Denver in 1987. They were up 14-0 in the first half, and they were at the goal line ready to blow the game wide open when Perry fumbled the ball and gave Denver new life (Broncos were up 21-14 at halftime, and won 31-29).

[TecmoSuperJoe]

Last day in LA. This piece from NFL Films "The Timeline" came out a couple of years ago. Chronicles the the final games played in LA between the Raiders and Rams franchises who would soon bounce to Oakland and St.Louis. Now of course the Rams have since moved back to LA, and the Raiders are in Vegas. However, at the time it was really unknown how things would shake out moving forward. Both teams had pretty strong fanbases at the time in the area. It's interesting to hear the perspective from guys like Jackie Slater and Henry Ellard, two guys who spent most of their years with the Rams in LA. Or Marcus Allen with the Raiders in LA, and coming back as a Chief to play in the last game against his former team. Jerome Bettis as a younger player in the league having to bolt to St. Louis from LA must have been a dispiriting reality. The fog of the uncertainty at the time really seemed like a microcosm of the 90's in general. Weird. And of course the OJ Simpson drama was going on at this time too. And even though football is back in LA, it just isn't the same as it used to be. Don't think it's nostalgia getting the best of me. 

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by PapaShogun

[kwolf68]

On 6/4/2020 at 11:02 AM, 7DnBrnc53 said:

The Perry use cost them in a MNF game against Denver in 1987. They were up 14-0 in the first half, and they were at the goal line ready to blow the game wide open when Perry fumbled the ball and gave Denver new life (Broncos were up 21-14 at halftime, and won 31-29).

 

Interesting. I vaguely remember that game. Can't say I recall that play. The fact Ditka was still doing that crap in 1987 just further illustrates his level of regression as a coach. Good coaches know when to shelve worn out, out dated and tired ideas. 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

1 hour ago, kwolf68 said:

 

Interesting. I vaguely remember that game. Can't say I recall that play. The fact Ditka was still doing that crap in 1987 just further illustrates his level of regression as a coach. Good coaches know when to shelve worn out, out dated and tired ideas. 

I watched the condensed version of that game a couple of times. It's on YouTube. The play he's talking about is at the 8:36 mark. I've embedded it for you at that spot. 

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by PapaShogun

[kwolf68]

^ genius Ditka at it again. 

I believe Ditka got the idea from Bill Walsh actually. The Niners put guard Guy McIntyre (I think) in the backfield to play fullback. I can't remember if the Niners did it in the NFC Title game of 1984 or not, but Ditka "gave it back" to Walsh the next season when the Bears played and beat San Fran in 1985 and then NEVER STOPPED doing it. It was good for a lark, but generally should have never been employed as standard operation procedure (to give a guy the football not used to running it the ball in close games at the goal line, just idiocy). He only had Perry block in the Frisco game, I think Ditka's first roll at running Perry was the MNF circus where he also threw Perry a TD. It just snowballed from there. 

Walsh only used McIntyre as a blocker, he never ran him. Which if you're going to use a big strong guy who can flatten guys yes absolutely let him block. Walsh was 10x smarter than Da Coach. But hey, Walsh probably was pissed he never had an SnL skit about him. 

I know I am a lot more negative about Ditka than most Bears fans. Am I unfair to him? Maybe, maybe not, but I don't think he did anything dramatic with that team and feel like he underachieved given the brilliant players they had at defense, offensive line, and running back. Yes the receivers were average at best and while McMahon had potential he was another of the frolicking jesters in that circus. There was no press outside 49ers or Redskins headquarters, no good copy for the press, those teams were boring....winning multiple Super Bowls. 

Edited June 7, 2020 by kwolf68

[TecmoSuperJoe]

3 hours ago, kwolf68 said:

^ genius Ditka at it again. 

I believe Ditka got the idea from Bill Walsh actually. The Niners put guard Guy McIntyre (I think) in the backfield to play fullback. I can't remember if the Niners did it in the NFC Title game of 1984 or not, but Ditka "gave it back" to Walsh the next season when the Bears played and beat San Fran in 1985 and then NEVER STOPPED doing it. It was good for a lark, but generally should have never been employed as standard operation procedure (to give a guy the football not used to running it the ball in close games at the goal line, just idiocy). He only had Perry block in the Frisco game, I think Ditka's first roll at running Perry was the MNF circus where he also threw Perry a TD. It just snowballed from there. 

Walsh only used McIntyre as a blocker, he never ran him. Which if you're going to use a big strong guy who can flatten guys yes absolutely let him block. Walsh was 10x smarter than Da Coach. But hey, Walsh probably was pissed he never had an SnL skit about him. 

I know I am a lot more negative about Ditka than most Bears fans. Am I unfair to him? Maybe, maybe not, but I don't think he did anything dramatic with that team and feel like he underachieved given the brilliant players they had at defense, offensive line, and running back. Yes the receivers were average at best and while McMahon had potential he was another of the frolicking jesters in that circus. There was no press outside 49ers or Redskins headquarters, no good copy for the press, those teams were boring....winning multiple Super Bowls. 

Yes it was in the 1984 NFC Championship game, and Ditka did use Perry in that role to get "revenge" or whatever. Stupid **** measuring move. I think you made a good point with Ditka underachieving with that Bears team. I feel like they could have won more with the players they had. Ditka from my perspective, even in the 1980's, was a little too rah rah. I think someone like Mora, Robinson, or Burns with those players would have done just as well if not better. 

Edited June 7, 2020 by PapaShogun

[kwolf68]

33 minutes ago, PapaShogun said:

Yes it was in the 1984 NFC Championship game, and Ditka did use Perry in that role to get "revenge" or whatever. Stupid **** measuring move. I think you made a good point with Ditka underachieving with that Bears team. I feel like they could have won more with the players they had. Ditka from my perspective, even in the 1980's, was a little too rah rah. I think someone like Mora, Robinson, or Burns with those players would have done just as well if not better. 

Yep. And in later meetings between the Bears and 49ers, most of which were won (often easily) by San Fran, Walsh NEVER put it back in Ditka's face. To Walsh revenge was egg head football and what Frisco was doing on the scoreboard was plenty enough revenge for him. I do like the "rah rah" stuff a bit, but there has to be some intelligence behind what you are doing too. Ditka lost all that. He learned under George Halas and Tom Landry, no doubt he knew how to coach, but like I said I think he became a "rock star" and totally lost his coaching focus. 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

1992 AFC Divisional Buffalo Bills (12-5) at Pittsburgh Steelers (11-5)

Saturday Jan 9, 1993
Start Time: 12:30pm
Stadium: Three Rivers Stadium
Attendance: 60,407

This is the game one week after the dramatic comeback between Buffalo and Houston. Buffalo went into Pittsburgh and just kept the petal on the gas. Their defense stepped up in a huge way forcing 3 turnovers, and making Steelers QB Neil O'Donnell very uncomfortable in the pocket. As a result he was sacked 7 times. The Steelers managed to score only 3 points at home, and looked completely outclassed in coach Bill Cowher's first playoff game. Bills QB Frank Reich was starting for the second straight week in place of Jim Kelly, and while he did play a pretty conservative game, he did make a few big throws including two touchdowns. 

[7DnBrnc53]

7 hours ago, PapaShogun said:

This is the game one week after the dramatic comeback between Buffalo and Houston. Buffalo went into Pittsburgh and just kept the petal on the gas. Their defense stepped up in a huge way forcing 3 turnovers, and making Steelers QB Neil O'Donnell very uncomfortable in the pocket. As a result he was sacked 7 times. The Steelers managed to score only 3 points at home, and looked completely outclassed in coach Bill Cowher's first playoff game. Bills QB Frank Reich was starting for the second straight week in place of Jim Kelly, and while he did play a pretty conservative game, he did make a few big throws including two touchdowns. 

1992 is when I started to get sick of the Bills, and this game was a big disappointment. O'Donnell played OK, but not great. The memorable play was in the second quarter when he missed a wide open Barry Foster around the Bills 10-yard line (he could have gone to the five, at least). Also, Richard Shelton's dropped INT in the third seemed to be the death knell.

The next week was even more disappointing. Miami didn't even show up. They only called 11 runs (with former 2x 1,000 yard rusher Bobby Humphrey and young back Aaron Craver), and played right into Buffalo's hands.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

NFL's Greatest Games: Jets vs Browns | "Marathon by the Lake" - 1986 AFC Divisional Playoffs