Dcash4 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 29 minutes ago, warfelg said: I've watched and I disagree. He's a step slower, but he's still ate Hadens level of play. Giants safeties have been terrible. When Jenkins has been left on an island, bad things have happened this year. His touchdown against Alston Jeffery and his play against DJ Moore have little to do with poor safety play. Getting absolutely turned around in man coverage and lagging a step behind everything doesn’t improved with teammates. And if his play will only improve will good safety play, he need not look here. I am not against trading for him, I’m against giving up something like a third for a guy who has taken a drastic step back in terms of play speed and has had his effort continually questioned since last year. Through 7 games, he is not a top end corner, he hasn’t even been above average. I do believe that a change of scenery could do him well (especially with a playoff contending team) and being a number 2 would fit him perfectly — but there is a large gamble that you get a revitalization and not just a guy whose wheels have fallen off. The upside is great, the play to this point scares the life outta me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chieferific Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 34 minutes ago, 3rivers said: and how many more years of starting would you allow a player before deciding to move on? When was the last time a player on any team had the lights go on during their 5th year of starting and became much more improved over the previous seasons? It eventually is a decision they will have to make, because staying committed will cost cap space that could be better spent elsewhere and they might also pass up on legit players that also would help more. Some people have more patience than others, that is known, but for some players time is running out here anyways. I was a dupree critic but have let up a bit since he at least has been a bit better this year but still has too many areas that need improvement. Burns OTOH is wasting a roster spot and should be cut just as ereck flowers was. Butler left burns out there and dalton waited until they got near the end zone for the pass in burns direction. Smart move by the bengals because if burns got burned before , he might have been pulled and there wouldn't have been the easy TD waiting for them . Burns tried via penalty to get pulled , but even that didn't work, so yes, still some questions about coaching. Burns and Antwan blake are the 2 worst governs we have had that I remember, both starters in this regime for way too many games, so where does the blame fall there? By trading for Peterson, we have legit starters, and then draft to learn from these pro bowlers . Peterson and Haden could be near the top of the league as a dual , but if Haden gets injured now, we are in trouble. Without researching it, my gut tells me it's not all that uncommon. James Harrison comes to mind. Don't mistake my post for a plea to keep Dupree. While I'm not totally against it (yet), it was more of an attempt to explain his lack of development. And it has been mentioned et nauseum, Burns is not being played to his strengths. While I do not think he will ever live up to 1st Rd expectations, he could be useful if used correctly. If they continue with the same scheme they should indeed cut him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chieferific Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, 3rivers said: who is looking at JJ, and who is JJ? You lost me there. I think Peterson has a trade clause according to this forum in the news section, so he has some say. Janoris Jenkins and the Steelers are one of a few teams showing interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 Just now, Chieferific said: Without researching it, my gut tells me it's not all that uncommon. James Harrison comes to mind. Don't mistake my post for a plea to keep Dupree. While I'm not totally against it (yet), it was more of an attempt to explain his lack of development. And it has been mentioned et nauseum, Burns is not being played to his strengths. While I do not think he will ever live up to 1st Rd expectations, he could be useful if used correctly. If they continue with the same scheme they should indeed cut him. Harrison never started for 4 years until we had this conversation, the comment was for players that started for 4 years (dupree for example). That is 4 years of starting snaps, not just ST plays or occasional snaps. Agree the coaching isn't adjusting to the players thats something I expect to continue. They need to get players that suit their scheme, instead of trying to make players suit their scheme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chieferific Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, 3rivers said: Harrison never started for 4 years until we had this conversation, the comment was for players that started for 4 years (dupree for example). That is 4 years of starting snaps, not just ST plays or occasional snaps. Agree the coaching isn't adjusting to the players thats something I expect to continue. They need to get players that suit their scheme, instead of trying to make players suit their scheme Well now you are just adding variables. If the questions is "Who got significantly better after 5 years" there are plenty of answers. Also, Dupree has only started for one Season (2017). He started 5 in 2015 and 4 in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, Chieferific said: Well now you are just adding variables. If the questions is "Who got significantly better after 5 years" there are plenty of answers. Also, Dupree has only started for one Season (2017). He started 5 in 2015 and 4 in 2016. getting starting reps is what I should clarify, but ST or playing in garbage time doesn't count. The variables are part of the assessment , but this is over for now and let this season play out. Dupree might have a decent season, he is much more near starter calibre than burns, thats for sure. I expect dupree to improve slowly because the scheme and coaching is a part of this. He could sign to another team and have a better career. Is Kevin Greene a free agent this off season? If so, would Rooney bring him in to replace porter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Also, on the PP thing, i dont think qe acquire him. I would love to see us acquire a CB or OLB somewhere though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 If you could trade a 6th round pick for Conley out of Oakland and a fourth round pick this year or maybe even a third round pick in 2020 for Janoris Jenkins to acquire both of them would any of you be in favor of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJtheWicked Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 I’d take Conley over Jenkins. I don’t know what kind of compensation each team wants for either of them, but I think Conley has way more upside, and Jenkins has a monster cap hit. So if we can land him for a late pick, I’d be all over it. Also, is it just me, or is there an absurd amount of misused defensive talent available for trade this year? Between Arizona and Oakland, there is a bunch of guys i really liked coming out in the draft that are up for trade. I wonder what it’d take to get Conley and Joseph off the Raiders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 2 hours ago, wwhickok said: If you could trade a 6th round pick for Conley out of Oakland and a fourth round pick this year or maybe even a third round pick in 2020 for Janoris Jenkins to acquire both of them would any of you be in favor of that? I’d be fine with it...it would fill out CB for this year and next...all while potentially filling their most immediate need. That would allow Steelers to say, pick a LB and an offensive player of some sort(the way Steelers draft) in the 1st 2 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 3 hours ago, wwhickok said: If you could trade a 6th round pick for Conley out of Oakland and a fourth round pick this year or maybe even a third round pick in 2020 for Janoris Jenkins to acquire both of them would any of you be in favor of that? Is JJ as good as Peterson? If not, then I would strike a deal for PP21, simply get the best CB you can because thats what you need now IMO or a fierce pass rush with 4 . We will have our RB for a low price for the next few years, so spend the cap on the lock down CB, and this is our biggest need by far. As for the OLB, we will blitz anyways, but I expect Adeyini to be effective when he hits the field and to make room on the roster, they will have to move a player, but who do you move? This offseason in 2019 has by the looks of it, quite a few Edge players available, not a bad year to need Edge. My hopes are trade for Peterson, get Adeyini on the roster and let him play. Get other Edge in the 2019 offseason , and possibly a proven good vet for CB3. If they somehow get JJ and Peterson, that could create a nice scheme that will be difficult to throw on. I don't think we have the cap space for all that but could it be done? Fix this secondary now and coty and burns are gone, sound about right? Gone: burns and coty Here: rework contracts to make room for Peterson, Jenkins TE cover : B.Allen , the LB's can't do this, unless they let Thomas try. Of course neither Thomas or Allen have had a chance yet either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chieferific Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Just gonna leave this here... Mike Jurecki of the Cardinals' official website says there's "zero chance" the team trades CB Patrick Peterson. and per Peterson himself... "I've been incredibly frustrated with how the season has gone. But my energy is 100% focused on being part of the solution & helping us turn this around. ... I have always given my all to the Cardinals organization, my teammates & fans. That is what I intend to do for the years to come". http://www75.myfantasyleague.com/2018/mfl_redirect?TRACK=1&L=15869&LOCATION=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmikejurecki%2Fstatus%2F1055153976121819136 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Chieferific said: and per Peterson himself... "I've been incredibly frustrated with how the season has gone. But my energy is 100% focused on being part of the solution & helping us turn this around. ... I have always given my all to the Cardinals organization, my teammates & fans. That is what I intend to do for the years to come". so much for that, unless this is a way to get more for the trade, this isn't happening . So what picks is JJ going to require and how does is play ? I don't watch the giants and PFF isn't as accurate but more of a guide . I'm not seeing much of a difference on PFF between Haden , conley and JJ or burns for that matter, so much for PFF as the final say. How much of a drop off is there from Haden to JJ and then conley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 3 hours ago, 3rivers said: Is JJ as good as Peterson? If not, then I would strike a deal for PP21, simply get the best CB you can because thats what you need now IMO or a fierce pass rush with 4 . We will have our RB for a low price for the next few years, so spend the cap on the lock down CB, and this is our biggest need by far. As for the OLB, we will blitz anyways, but I expect Adeyini to be effective when he hits the field and to make room on the roster, they will have to move a player, but who do you move? This offseason in 2019 has by the looks of it, quite a few Edge players available, not a bad year to need Edge. My hopes are trade for Peterson, get Adeyini on the roster and let him play. Get other Edge in the 2019 offseason , and possibly a proven good vet for CB3. If they somehow get JJ and Peterson, that could create a nice scheme that will be difficult to throw on. I don't think we have the cap space for all that but could it be done? Fix this secondary now and coty and burns are gone, sound about right? Gone: burns and coty Here: rework contracts to make room for Peterson, Jenkins TE cover : B.Allen , the LB's can't do this, unless they let Thomas try. Of course neither Thomas or Allen have had a chance yet either. No, he isn't as good as PP, but as far as I'm concerned PP isn't an option. IF they are options, Conley and JJ are probably our best options, but we're not the only team inquiring about the 2 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 Just now, wwhickok said: No, he isn't as good as PP, but as far as I'm concerned PP isn't an option. IF they are options, Conley and JJ are probably our best options, but we're not the only team inquiring about the 2 of them. how do these 2 compare to Haden in coverage? I mean, I wouldn't complain about having 3 Haden's at CB that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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