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5th Down Depreciation Thread


MacReady

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1 minute ago, squire12 said:

This is true.  

Do you look at other QB contracts as being poor relative to the play/performance delivered?

Stafford, Ryan, Cutler, Wilson, Roethlisberger,  Newton, Cousins....to name a few.

Performance doesn't have anything to do with it anymore. If you're up - you get the next highest paid deal. 

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3 minutes ago, cannondale said:

Performance doesn't have anything to do with it anymore. If you're up - you get the next highest paid deal. 

Sure.  And most fans will chuckle at those teams dishing out those contracts and getting the return for said contract.  Rodgers is now in a similar fate.  Contract and performance not aligning well.

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1 minute ago, squire12 said:

Sure.  And most fans will chuckle at those teams dishing out those contracts and getting the return for said contract.  Rodgers is now in a similar fate.  Contract and performance not aligning well.

You have two choices. A QB on a rookie deal or 30 million.  The Packers chose 30 million. That's not Rodgers fault.

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37 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

I mean, fans are never going to be rational.  You're right of course, but we both know that there's no stopping this train at this point.  It was the same thing with Favre; hero worship is a hell of a thing...

But he (Rodgers) does need to throw the ball on 4th down, leave the bad comedy plays to Count Orlovsky.

An excellent post, sir, as per usual. 
 

My only quibble being a bit of confusion I have over whether one means Prince Orlovsky from Die Fledermaus or Count Olaf from A Series of Unfortunate Events.

Both ways work, actually. 

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54 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

I mean, fans are never going to be rational.  You're right of course, but we both know that there's no stopping this train at this point.  It was the same thing with Favre; hero worship is a hell of a thing.

That being said, I do think Rodgers is starting to actually get the short shrift here. Like, these are all legitimate, defensible criticisms of Rodgers, but it's also easy to overstate it because it's a relative issue. His play is not a problem in a vacuum, devoid of all context; you can absolutely win a Super Bowl with a QB who throws 26 TDs/4 INTs and has a 95.4 passer rating.  That's a solidly above average QB.  Rodgers is only the problem because his contract hamstrings the team's finances, and he's not playing at a level that mitigates that.  He has trouble throwing over the middle, he has eyes for only Davante, and he plays hero ball too much, but I mean those relative to who he could be and if Favre showed anything late in his career it's that you never do know when someone will finally take coaching.  MLF is only 4 years older than Rodgers and inexperienced, but McCarthy was only 6 years older than Favre and similarly inexperienced when he came onboard back in '06.  If MLF could be Rodgers' McCarthy, I mean the skies the limit.  

But he does need to throw the ball on 4th down, leave the bad comedy plays to Count Orlovsky.

 

 

I like to think that most aren't criticising Rodgers because he's no longer a world-beater; it's that he is playing below the level he's capable of and leaving plays out on the field. I certainly get that he definitely learned the "don't make crazy throws, because they blow up in your face far more often than they work" but now he's gone too far in the opposite direction of that - sometimes, you've gotta put one up that might not be the safest pass.  

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13 minutes ago, Uffdaswede said:

An excellent post, sir, as per usual. 
 

My only quibble being a bit of confusion I have over whether one means Prince Orlovsky from Die Fledermaus or Count Olaf from A Series of Unfortunate Events.

Both ways work, actually. 

Did you know the same man directed such drastically different films as Goldeneye and Casino Royals?

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21 minutes ago, cannondale said:

You have two choices. A QB on a rookie deal or 30 million.  The Packers chose 30 million. That's not Rodgers fault.

And if the rookie QB does not play well, you have monetary resources to augment the team in other ways .  30+ million and subpar play leaves the team in a bind.

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6 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

Just let him have him temper tantrum today, this is pretty much all accurate. Though I think he could still be the 4 WAR guy that people debate him or Mahomes for #1 if he actually bought into an offense completely. 

Ageed ^

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53 minutes ago, cannondale said:

You have two choices. A QB on a rookie deal or 30 million.  The Packers chose 30 million. That's not Rodgers fault.

Rodgers wanted a new deal before his current deal expired.  That’s on Rodgers.

It is too on Rodgers, too.  He was involved in that contract.  He’s smart enough to know that the more he’s paid, the less his team is paid.  If he wanted weaponz, he could have taken a pay cut.  
 

Stop acting like it’s unprecedented for a QB to take a team friendly deal.  There’s a ton of precedent.  Favre did it frequently towards the end of his career.  Brady did it his entire career in New England.  Peyton Manning did it several times.  Brees just did it.

Rodgers is not innocent in this.  He negotiated his deal to be the highest at the time.  It’s on him to live up to that contract.  He’s not doing that through his play in ways that have been outlined frequently here.  He CAN make his job easier.  He doesn’t.  

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7 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Rodgers wanted a new deal before his current deal expired.  That’s on Rodgers.

It is too on Rodgers, too.  He was involved in that contract.  He’s smart enough to know that the more he’s paid, the less his team is paid.  If he wanted weaponz, he could have taken a pay cut.  
 

Stop acting like it’s unprecedented for a QB to take a team friendly deal.  There’s a ton of precedent.  Favre did it frequently towards the end of his career.  Brady did it his entire career in New England.  Peyton Manning did it several times.  Brees just did it.

Rodgers is not innocent in this.  He negotiated his deal to be the highest at the time.  It’s on him to live up to that contract.  He’s not doing that through his play in ways that have been outlined frequently here.  He CAN make his job easier.  He doesn’t.  

Enlighten us on his appropriate number to unlock the chains that cripple the team

1. $35 million Russell Wilson Seahawks
2. $34 million Ben Roethlisberger Steelers
T3. $33.5 million Jared Goff Rams
T3. $33.5 million Aaron Rodgers Packers
5. $33 million Kirk Cousins Vikings
6. $32 million Carson Wentz Eagles
6. $30.144 million (tag) Dak Prescott Cowboys
7. $30 million Matt Ryan Falcons
8. $29.5 million Ryan Tannehill Titans
9. $27.975 million Jacoby Brissett Colts

 

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1 hour ago, cannondale said:

None of those things are wrong. But none of those things are Rodgers fault

by that token, no fan should ever again criticize the play of another player (Hawk, Perry, Graham, etc). It wasn't their fault to be paid the way they were...

nobody is saying Rodgers is evil for taking the money. we're saying fans should not have the TEAM expectations that they do because of it. All the whiners, who are always criticizing the FO for not being able to win more SB's, justify their moaning by essentially saying "yes, we are expecting greater than normal (1/32) odds of winning the SB, because so many of those other teams don't have the play quality of Arod at QB". But they leave out the other half of the equation, which is that so many of those other teams ALSO don't have the big-$ contract of Arod on their books. The QB contract size negates the advantage of play quality, especially if it's much less quality like it was in the latter half of last year. The contract of any good player can be enough to negate the value they provide to the team, but fans always find it uncomfortable to acknowledge the money side of things and try to ignore it. 

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1 hour ago, cannondale said:

Enlighten us on his appropriate number to unlock the chains that cripple the team

1. $35 million Russell Wilson Seahawks
2. $34 million Ben Roethlisberger Steelers
T3. $33.5 million Jared Goff Rams
T3. $33.5 million Aaron Rodgers Packers
5. $33 million Kirk Cousins Vikings
6. $32 million Carson Wentz Eagles
6. $30.144 million (tag) Dak Prescott Cowboys
7. $30 million Matt Ryan Falcons
8. $29.5 million Ryan Tannehill Titans
9. $27.975 million Jacoby Brissett Colts

 

I’d do it for you, but I don’t like you.  If you want your answer, look up the cap hit percentage for every Super Bowl winning QB to ever win a Super Bowl and you’ll have your answer.  If you ask for and get more than that, as a QB, you’re actively effecting your legacy for the sake of money.  
 

Just ask the guy who has 6 rings.  Matter of fact, what do Bradshaw, Aikman, Roethlisberger, Manning, Manning, Brady, Montana and every other multiple SB winning QB have in common?  Not a single one of them got paid over 12% of the cap the year they won a Super Bowl.  That’s true for every QB to ever win the Super Bowl except for one, and his team literally got punished for cap violations.  So I guess it can happen if your team cheats.

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You can't because in order for it to be anything worthwhile you'd have to slot him well below Tannehill and Brissett which is utterly ridiculous and a huge stretch as far as money saved,. I'll check Terry Bradshaw's cap number from 1975 when I get a second. The options were to sign Rodgers for 30 million or let him walk. No one blinked any eye when they signed him. As far as not liking me - ---I'm not here for pen pals, nor am I 8 years old, so don't know why it's relevant.

Edited by cannondale
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