5th Down Depreciation Thread

[eyecatcher]

1 hour ago, squire12 said:

IF the QB making $30M per year is not living up to that contract, that is a major issue.  

How did he not live up to the contract?  His TD numbers were down but so were his INT numbers.  How many TDs were dropped this year.  This team was among the worst for dropped passes this year.   Rodgers completion % was down a hair but not his worst ever.  He had nearly 4500 yards good for his second highest total in his career.   

 

[Leader]

2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Personally I've never been a big fan of yelling at somebody in the moment and especially in public. I don't think it's good for morale or team chemistry. Maybe I'm wrong. I'll also say that I'm not a fan of people who are willing to dish it out and not take it. Lord only knows the kind of screaming match or petty bull**** Rodgers would pull if MVS yelled at him for putting a ball three steps out of bounds.

Agree entirely. 100%

It looks bad to all concerned IMO. Doesnt lead to any sort of better relations or performance and it gives AR a bad image. It just doesnt reflect well and he might want to start polishing that image up a bit as its getting tarnished a bit more often than is good for all concerned. If he's a primary selling point: "Come to GB and catch passes from AR......." - having it out there that he's a cantankerous ___________ isnt beneficial. 

[squire12]

52 minutes ago, eyecatcher said:

How did he not live up to the contract?  His TD numbers were down but so were his INT numbers.  How many TDs were dropped this year.  This team was among the worst for dropped passes this year.   Rodgers completion % was down a hair but not his worst ever.  He had nearly 4500 yards good for his second highest total in his career.   

 

If those were the only things that mattered, then he did.  

26th in completion %

17th in yards per attempt

13th in passer rating (with all those nice TD yards and low INT)

[Shanedorf]

2 hours ago, squire12 said:

IF the QB making $30M per year is not living up to that contract, that is a major issue.

I am convinced that things will be different in 2019.
That's why I am not willing to file the indictment based purely on the recent results
New coaches, new attitude, new regime. IF AR doesn't get back to tilting the field in 2019, different discussion

[squire12]

6 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

I am convinced that things will be different in 2019.
That's why I am not willing to file the indictment based purely on the recent results
New coaches, new attitude, new regime. IF AR doesn't get back to tilting the field in 2019, different discussion

I too am optimistic on  Rodgers having a better 2019, but as the highest paid player for GB in 2019, he also needs to play up to his contract in addition to the other highly paid players.  

I guess the quote seemed like it was more on the others and not the QB which seemed flawed.  maybe just how I interpreted it.

[Shanedorf]

What Andrew said was that the size of the contract in and of itself wasn't an issue -  but playing up to the contracts is an issue and that includes everybody on the field. He's also very close to AR so he isn't going to throw shade at the guy in a podcast

[squire12]

3 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

What Andrew said was that the size of the contract in and of itself wasn't an issue -  but playing up to the contracts is an issue and that includes everybody on the field. He's also very close to AR so he isn't going to throw shade at the guy in a podcast

That is fair, but "everybody" should start at the top and work its way down.  Excluding someone because you are "close to them" makes it seem like you have an agenda to shift the focus/blame off of 1 person and onto others.

[Shanedorf]

Andrew didn't exclude anyone. There is no agenda
But he did say that he's not a scout and can't comment on any players' ability or production vs his peers. He said those comments come from the coaches and front office.  They'd tell Andrew to sign a guy and what the parameters were and he'd get it done. Or if a re-structure was needed, he'd get it done. But he's not making any scouting or performance assessments, that's outside of his area of expertise and he made that clear on the podcast

That's why he didn't say AR is or isn't playing up to his deal, he simply said that's the biggest issue - not the actual size of it.
Some here have said its unpossible to win a Super Bowl while paying a Top QB due to the size of the contract, and Andrew disagrees with that sentiment, calling it bunk.

Size doesn't matter so long as you are getting commensurate performance.

[squire12]

26 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

Andrew didn't exclude anyone. There is no agenda
But he did say that he's not a scout and can't comment on any players' ability or production vs his peers. He said those comments come from the coaches and front office.  They'd tell Andrew to sign a guy and what the parameters were and he'd get it done. Or if a re-structure was needed, he'd get it done. But he's not making any scouting or performance assessments, that's outside of his area of expertise and he made that clear on the podcast

That's why he didn't say AR is or isn't playing up to his deal, he simply said that's the biggest issue - not the actual size of it.
Some here have said its unpossible to win a Super Bowl while paying a Top QB due to the size of the contract, and Andrew disagrees with that sentiment, calling it bunk.

Size doesn't matter so long as you are getting commensurate performance.

as the size of the contract increases, the performance needs to match it as well.  

[squire12]

3 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

I listened to a podcast yesterday with Andrew Brandt via The Athletic and he was asked about the difficulty of building a team around a top end QB with a massive contract. He said the huge Rodgers contract isn't an issue at all . Paying $ 30 M to a QB when the team cap is $180 M doesn't represent a problem to him, in fact he said that line of thinking is bunk.

The real killer in terms of building a supporting cast for a top end QB is the other players that aren't living up to their deals - he said that's a far more important aspect of building the roster and managing the cap than the amount AR is earning.

Brandt knows a thing or two about building teams and signing deals, it was interesting to hear his take on the topic. Will be interesting to see how GB handles some of the other large contracts this offseason.

I am not sure if the bold sentence is something that Brandt stated in the podcast or you are paraphrasing from the podcast.  But to me, that reads like the other players need to live up to their deals, which implies exclusion of the QB needing to live up to their deal. 

Stating that the other players is "far more important aspect of building the roster and managing the cap around AR"....again to me implies that it is more on the other players than the player earning the highest % of the cap.

[Pugger]

21 hours ago, {Family Ghost} said:

I can't imagine the Packers would have given him that huge extension if they had any concerns at all about thos collarbone injuries.  I would think they watched him very closely after that latest collarbone surgery.  

You're probably right.  I was just speculating on why his accuracy isn't what it once was.

[Pugger]

21 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

It's one of two reasons, either that's the leadership style that's most likely to get results out of the youth, or he's doing it because he's frustrated and lashing out in irritation rather than controlling his emotions and conducting himself in a more positive manner.

Personally I've never been a big fan of yelling at somebody in the moment and especially in public. I don't think it's good for morale or team chemistry. Maybe I'm wrong. 

If that's not what's happening and Rodgers is lashing out, it's either because he knows he can vent his anger and nobody can do anything to him, or he's just out of control.

Most likely it's a combination of all of the above.

Regardless, I'm not a fan, though I'm willing to add in the caveat that maybe he knows the rookies aren't the kind of people that will get defensive and irritated.

 

I'll also say that I'm not a fan of people who are willing to dish it out and not take it. Lord only knows the kind of screaming match or petty bull**** Rodgers would pull if MVS yelled at him for putting a ball three steps out of bounds.

I understand what you are saying.  I don't care for it either.  But he isn't the first nor the last QB to chew out his teammates when things go wrong.  Perhaps McCarthy let that get out of hand too.  If so then there's another reason why a change in coaches was overdue.

[AlexGreen#20]

2 hours ago, Pugger said:

I understand what you are saying.  I don't care for it either.  But he isn't the first nor the last QB to chew out his teammates when things go wrong.  Perhaps McCarthy let that get out of hand too.  If so then there's another reason why a change in coaches was overdue.

And this is why I laugh when people say they learned from Favre about putting one player above the team.

[Shanedorf]

21 hours ago, squire12 said:

I am not sure if the bold sentence is something that Brandt stated in the podcast or you are paraphrasing from the podcast.  But to me, that reads like the other players need to live up to their deals, which implies exclusion of the QB needing to live up to their deal. 

Stating that the other players is "far more important aspect of building the roster and managing the cap around AR"....again to me implies that it is more on the other players than the player earning the highest % of the cap.

How can you be so obtuse ? 

The question asked by the reporter: "Does the size of Rodgers contract prevent the Packers from building a Super Bowl team around him ? "
A: No, it doesn't. The size of Rodgers contract is NOT an impediment to building a Super Bowl team around him. The only impediment to building a team around him is if the other players on the team are not performing up to their contracts.

The reason I posted it was to share the thoughts of a cap guru around the mistaken idea that the size of AR's contract prevents the Packers from building a Super Bowl team around AR. In Brandt's view - It doesn't. The question was never about an assessment of AR's performance. That's a completely different question and discussion and that was not part of this podcast ( but it is well covered in this thread.)

Is AR's performance/contract ratio a part of the Bigger Picture ? Of course it is - and nobody has said otherwise.
But that's not the question that was asked and answered. Hopefully that helps

Edited February 16, 2019 by Shanedorf

[VonKarman]

Just read an article from The Athletic, where defensive players answered a few questions about QBs. Here's one of them:

 

Quote

11. Which quarterback would you most want as your teammate in the locker room?

Top answer: Aaron Rodgers 25%

Runners up: Tom Brady 22%, Cam Newton 13%

Also receiving multiple votes: Philip Rivers, Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Carson Wentz

Note: Players were not allowed to vote for their current quarterback. There were 18 votes that were either “no comment” or a vote for their teammate, and those votes were excluded.

Total number of votes, not including “no comments” or votes for own teammates: 64

Our view: The results here are an interesting look into the older generation of quarterbacks who have a long history of having the respect of their teammates for their play on the field, their toughness and their leadership in the locker room, as well as the next generation of quarterbacks who will soon take over that mantle.

 

Edited February 17, 2019 by VonKarman
grammar