Pugger Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 34 minutes ago, VonKarman said: Just read an article from The Athletic, where defensive players answered a few questions about QBs. Here's one of them: I think I'll take the word of players over media types and folks speculating on message boards. None of us really know what a player is like except other players and coaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 Just now, Pugger said: I think I'll take the word of players over media types and folks speculating on message boards. None of us really know what a player is like except other players and coaches. That's like saying you'd take Charles Lee's opinion on George Washington because every historian is just speculating, but Lee was actually there with him. Take, for example, Joseph Reed's letter to Charles Lee, which George Washington opened while desperate for information on Lee's whereabouts. If you take that one letter, George Washington was inept. Terrible. No chance of winning the war with him as Commander. If you take the opinion of Washington from Continental Congress after he crossed the Delaware, he's a veritable demigod. So which one do you believe? Whichever one you choose to believe. Or... Alternatively... You could go with the middle ground. You could compare all sorts of opinions from all sorts of people who were there during the American Revolution. You could compile opinions of Washington from people who fought with him (teammates), or people whom he answered to (coaches), or the general opinion of him from other generals, his trusted confidantes, Congress, soldiers and more and you'll find that Washington was a man of many strengths and many faults and that neither is right or wrong individually, but together they combine into a more apt assessment of Washington. As is the case with Rodgers. Yes, a lot of people love him. Confirmed by the opinion of him from his former teammates. Still, a lot of people dislike him. Confirmed by the opinion of him from his former teammates. When you add it all together, Rodgers, too, is a man of many faults and many strengths. Some people think his recent faults have been holding the Packers back. Some people just refuse to see those faults because they want to prop Rodgers up as this incredible player without faults, and they want to blame his shortcomings on the rest of the team. Just like people did with Favre. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 38 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: That's like saying you'd take Charles Lee's opinion on George Washington because every historian is just speculating, but Lee was actually there with him. Take, for example, Joseph Reed's letter to Charles Lee, which George Washington opened while desperate for information on Lee's whereabouts. If you take that one letter, George Washington was inept. Terrible. No chance of winning the war with him as Commander. If you take the opinion of Washington from Continental Congress after he crossed the Delaware, he's a veritable demigod. So which one do you believe? Whichever one you choose to believe. Or... Alternatively... You could go with the middle ground. You could compare all sorts of opinions from all sorts of people who were there during the American Revolution. You could compile opinions of Washington from people who fought with him (teammates), or people whom he answered to (coaches), or the general opinion of him from other generals, his trusted confidantes, Congress, soldiers and more and you'll find that Washington was a man of many strengths and many faults and that neither is right or wrong individually, but together they combine into a more apt assessment of Washington. As is the case with Rodgers. Yes, a lot of people love him. Confirmed by the opinion of him from his former teammates. Still, a lot of people dislike him. Confirmed by the opinion of him from his former teammates. When you add it all together, Rodgers, too, is a man of many faults and many strengths. Some people think his recent faults have been holding the Packers back. Some people just refuse to see those faults because they want to prop Rodgers up as this incredible player without faults, and they want to blame his shortcomings on the rest of the team. Just like people did with Favre. Sure, Rodgers can play a hell of a lot better, but the talent around him is subpar. The guards are replacement level, the rookie wideouts weren't fully ready for primetime, and the high dollar tight end was a free agent bust. The coach was on his way out the door, and couldn't figure out that Aaron Jones was an electric player when on the field. Most of the team had already tuned him out. Sure, Rodgers deserves his share of blame, but the whole operation was a mess. All that said, if you replace Rodgers with Kizer last year they literally would not win a game .. maybe one or two at best due to a strong defensive performance along the way. Rodgers and the entire organization gets a do-over now with a new head coach with a new philosophies. Let's see how that goes instead of continually rehashing what was a terrible season all around for the Packers organization. If Rodgers comes out and plays poorly again it's fair to start thinking getting a new plan at QB prepared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 Just now, {Family Ghost} said: Sure, Rodgers can play a hell of a lot better, but the talent around him is subpar. False. Talent around him is average to good. Quote The guards are replacement level, False. Lane Taylor is an average OG. Addended statement: The Right Guard is replacement level. (Singular). Quote the rookie wideouts weren't fully ready for primetime, False. MVS had 2 100 yard receiving games in primetime (nationally televised games). So not only false, but demonstrably false. Quote and the high dollar tight end was a free agent bust. False. We paid top ten tight end money for a top ten tight end season. You can do mental gymnastics all you want on this one, but the facts remain: Graham was a free agent, thus had to be overpaid, and had a top ten tight end season, so based on the history of free agent signings, Graham was not a bust by anyone's standards but Packer fans. Quote The coach was on his way out the door, and couldn't figure out that Aaron Jones was an electric player when on the field. That same electric player that's a part of the talent around Rodgers, which you called subpar? Quote Most of the team had already tuned him out. Speaking of McCarthy, Aaron's worst game of the season came without McCarthy. Can't blame McCarthy for Rodgers throwing a game-ending interception in the red zone against Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: False. Talent around him is average to good. False. Lane Taylor is an average OG. Addended statement: The Right Guard is replacement level. (Singular). False. MVS had 2 100 yard receiving games in primetime (nationally televised games). So not only false, but demonstrably false. False. We paid top ten tight end money for a top ten tight end season. You can do mental gymnastics all you want on this one, but the facts remain: Graham was a free agent, thus had to be overpaid, and had a top ten tight end season, so based on the history of free agent signings, Graham was not a bust by anyone's standards but Packer fans. That same electric player that's a part of the talent around Rodgers, which you called subpar? Speaking of McCarthy, Aaron's worst game of the season came without McCarthy. Can't blame McCarthy for Rodgers throwing a game-ending interception in the red zone against Chicago. Lane Taylor was awful last year .. his play on the field was replacement level. I guess MVS was ready for primetime .. too bad he wasn't read for noon kickoffs more often than not. Had a nice 5 game stretch where he had 7 receptions for 61 yds and 0 td's. and a forgettable 2nd half of the season. Decent rookie season here and there, but largely a no show. ESB showed some signs of progress here and there, but also was not productive. J'Mon Moore apparently couldn't figure out the offense by own admittance. Graham was bad .... all that superior athletic skill he once possessed was gone. He should be an easy cut this offseason. Bad call on the Rodgers interception, Outpost .. it should have been a TD catch by Graham but he deflected it into the air. That was one of two interceptions that Graham cost Rodgers in 2018. Hell, all of Rodgers int's were on Graham! https://www.chicagobears.com/video/jackson-intercepts-aaron-rodgers Edited February 17, 2019 by {Family Ghost} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snackattack Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 The defense of jimmy graham has to stop. Yes he had top 10 TE money in 2018 but he will have the #1 TE cap hit this year and will be within $150k of the #1 TE cap hit next year. If he stayed in the lower half of top 10 TE money the next two years, i wouldnt be bothered by his performance at all. His roster spot is not and should not be safe based on future cap hits. Lets hope he plays better if we dont cut him because $12M for what we got last year would hurt. Im not dumping all over the signing. Hindsight is 20/20, and i agree you need to spend more than a “fair” price to get a big FA signing. I was excited when we signed him but it isnt looking good now. It is what it is, not here to ***** about it, but for the love of god please stop defending it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 10 hours ago, Outpost31 said: That's like saying you'd take Charles Lee's opinion on George Washington because every historian is just speculating, but Lee was actually there with him. Take, for example, Joseph Reed's letter to Charles Lee, which George Washington opened while desperate for information on Lee's whereabouts. If you take that one letter, George Washington was inept. Terrible. No chance of winning the war with him as Commander. If you take the opinion of Washington from Continental Congress after he crossed the Delaware, he's a veritable demigod. So which one do you believe? Whichever one you choose to believe. Or... Alternatively... You could go with the middle ground. You could compare all sorts of opinions from all sorts of people who were there during the American Revolution. You could compile opinions of Washington from people who fought with him (teammates), or people whom he answered to (coaches), or the general opinion of him from other generals, his trusted confidantes, Congress, soldiers and more and you'll find that Washington was a man of many strengths and many faults and that neither is right or wrong individually, but together they combine into a more apt assessment of Washington. As is the case with Rodgers. Yes, a lot of people love him. Confirmed by the opinion of him from his former teammates. Still, a lot of people dislike him. Confirmed by the opinion of him from his former teammates. When you add it all together, Rodgers, too, is a man of many faults and many strengths. Some people think his recent faults have been holding the Packers back. Some people just refuse to see those faults because they want to prop Rodgers up as this incredible player without faults, and they want to blame his shortcomings on the rest of the team. Just like people did with Favre. Nobody here is refusing to see AR's faults. He was decidedly average and that won't cut if for a player of his caliber. But football is the ultimate team sport. It isn't like basketball where one elite player like Giannis in Milwaukee can elevate the team around him. He needs the players around him to produce too and they didn't either. It was a collective screwup from McCarthy on down. You seem to want to pile on the problems of the 2018 team mostly on Rodgers. Yes, he could have played better but he wasn't the only one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Warshed up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopackgo247 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Arthur Penske said: Warshed up PFF or eye test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 42 minutes ago, gopackgo247 said: PFF or eye test? Both. The rest of the North needs new QB's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kepler Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 20 hours ago, Arthur Penske said: Warshed up Ranked as the 5th best QB in the league. His 89.7 score rated him in the "good" category. Just short of "high quality" and far from the PFF category of "elite". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 Lol at Mitch Trubisky's score. I'll admit PFF isn't great for quarterbacks, but that's funny to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 On 2/20/2019 at 4:17 PM, HighCalebR said: Both. The rest of the North needs new QB's. I hope they keep all 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lodestar Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 7 hours ago, Outpost31 said: Lol at Mitch Trubisky's score. I'll admit PFF isn't great for quarterbacks, but that's funny to me. Trubisky has moments where you watch him and it's like "Wow, this kid is a playmaker!" and then there's the other 95% of the time where he's just trash. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/02/21/former-packers-wr-jordy-nelson-defends-aaron-rodgers-hes-a-great-leader/amp/?__twitter_impression=true “I don’t want to have to be on the phone and defend Aaron. He’s a great leader, we all believe that and believed that and still do,” Nelson said. “He’s hard on people, he demands a lot, but he demands a lot from himself. And I think any great quarterback out there does the same thing." 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.