Packers Lions Post Game

[Green19]

15 minutes ago, Kenrik said:

Consistent? What do you expect out of such a raw group. Rodgers hardly played during the preseason and hasnt practice much at all this seasons. 3 WR rookies, 2 new TEs, and young RBs. I think the only vets out there with experience is Adams, O-line, and Rodgers. Last week we had a lot of inexperienced players playing together with hardly any practice with Rodgers. Get behind right away how the **** do you expect the offense to get in rythem when they dont know what that is!?

And who’s choice was that? McCarthy and Rodgers. What did Rodgers say in front of his locker when asked if he needed reps in the preseason? No... when the last 5-6 years have shown, he does.

I understand the issues... but look Rodgers and McCarthy don’t make it easier on themselves. They roll out there thinking they are a well oiled machine. Instead of drawing up the first 15 with the idea of getting everyone feeling good... it’s trying to drive the ball down the field. 

They don’t try to start small to help just get a rhythm. They want those 2nd and 3rd reaction plays, instead of drawing the defense in with the short stuff. To then hit them with the second reaction.

Look when the talking heads keep repeating the same things about the team you know what the issue is. Teams don’t respect this offense because it’s not patience and willing to just take what is given. It’s both HC and QB. 

[Mazrimiv]

As much as anything, I think Rodgers needs a new voice in his ear.  I don't see where Mac has a lot to offer anymore when it comes to reigning in some of Rodgers worst habits.  I think both of them like the idea of constantly looking for the big play downfield without actually scheming anything to make it happen.  Each year it only gets worse.

[Packerraymond]

7 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

Current Coaches who I think are decidedly better than McCarthy:

Doug Pederson

Andy Reid

Bill Belichick

Dan Quinn

Doug Marrone

John Harbaugh

Kyle Shanahan

Mike Tomlin

Pete Carroll

Sean McDermott

Ron Rivera

Sean Payton

Mike Zimmer

Sean McVay

 

Coaches who are decidedly worse than McCarthy:
 

Jason Garrett

Hue Jackson

Bill O'Brien

Jon Gruden (this is just personal bias)

Dirk Koetter

 

TBD (not enough info):

Frank Reich

Matt Nagy

Matt Patricia

Mike Vrabel

Pat Shurmur

 

Firmly in the McCarthy Zone:

Mike McCarthy

Marvin Lewis

Jay Gruden

Anthony Lynn

Adam Gase

Belicheck, Payton, Pederson, McVay.

Those are the only 4 I'd take straight up over Mac. Some of yours are downright bad. Quinn and his 1-4 Falcons? Carroll??? Zimmer the defensive specialist coaching one of the worst defenses in the NFL? How is that any better than Mac.

Mac is in the class with Reid, Tomlin, Lewis, and Rivera as the group of good NFL coaches who might need a change of scenery of they don't win it all in the next 1-2 years.

[TheOnlyThing]

10 minutes ago, Green19 said:

And who’s choice was that? McCarthy and Rodgers. What did Rodgers say in front of his locker when asked if he needed reps in the preseason? No... when the last 5-6 years have shown, he does.

When did Rodgers not playing in the preseason become an issue, because it is not like this is a recent phenomenon?

And if not playing in the preseason is the reason for the Packers offensive struggles, how then does one explain Goff's success in LA?

"Jared Goff watched the Los Angeles Rams’ entire preseason from the sideline." https://apnews.com/543c2b9a11e34d569624696fb1d72eb4

[Green19]

6 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

When did Rodgers not playing in the preseason become an issue, because it is not like this is a recent phenomenon?

And if not playing in the preseason is the reason for the Packers offensive struggles, how then does one explain Goff's success in LA?

"Jared Goff watched the Los Angeles Rams’ entire preseason from the sideline." https://apnews.com/543c2b9a11e34d569624696fb1d72eb4

It’s an issue if your offense is based on QB and WR being on the same page when it comes to post snap reading and reacting. If your offense is based on a scheme where it’s like WR1 you need to be here ... you don’t need to rep a ton. It’s getting to a spot and knowing what those spots are given the play.

GBs offense is based on post snap looks... Rodgers needs to trust his WRs are going to see what he sees and make the right call (it’s not like regardless the post snap read you go here even if it means you run yourself into coverage). It’s why he tends to not throw to young WR. He needs reps with them... to work out what he wants. So again he needs reps. It’s why you saw a lot of guys in the same spot yesterday... because they are post snap reading and getting it mixed up. 

[skibrett15]

2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Belicheck, Payton, Pederson, McVay.

Those are the only 4 I'd take straight up over Mac. Some of yours are downright bad. Quinn and his 1-4 Falcons? Carroll??? Zimmer the defensive specialist coaching one of the worst defenses in the NFL? How is that any better than Mac.

Mac is in the class with Reid, Tomlin, Lewis, and Rivera as the group of good NFL coaches who might need a change of scenery of they don't win it all in the next 1-2 years.

why are you only looking at what those coaches did this year?  Quinn has horrible injury problems and a proven ability to recruit and develop top coordinator talent.  You really think Minnesota is gonna wind up with a below average D this year?

What's wrong with Carroll?  I hate his schtick but it works well.

These are my opinions on who is a good coach in the NFL.  Most of those coaches could have done better than what McCarthy did over his career.  I'm not proposing we swap them out now or anything, but Reid is easily a better coach than Mac, as are a few others.

[TheOnlyThing]

2 minutes ago, Green19 said:

It’s an issue if your offense is based on QB and WR being on the same page when it comes to post snap reading and reacting. If your offense is based on a scheme where it’s like WR1 you need to be here ... you don’t need to rep a ton. It’s getting to a spot and knowing what those spots are given the play.

GBs offense is based on post snap looks... Rodgers needs to trust his WRs are going to see what he sees and make the right call (it’s not like regardless the post snap read you go here even if it means you run yourself into coverage). It’s why he tends to not throw to young WR. He needs reps with them... to work out what he wants. So again he needs reps. It’s why you saw a lot of guys in the same spot yesterday... because they are post snap reading and getting it mixed up. 

I appreciate your response and your explanation really does make quite a bit of sense.

It also leads me to conclude that MM's statement after the Vikes-Rams game that there is not much difference between the schemes the Rams and Packers' run is hogwash.

If further leads me to conclude that schemes really do matter. 

[packfanfb]

1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

No I'm pretty sure you've all probably been whining since the first time we didn't win a SB after 2010. Point still remains none of you shoulder any blame to players. You all completely over exaggerate what an NFL coach is responsible and don't hold players accountable for not performing duties that should come as 2nd nature to a professional football player.

Coaches fall on the swords of their players' poor play all the time. It's not a fair league. If the players were executing, you wouldnt need to fire the coach. So when they don't execute the coach is blamed. Its the way it works. Past time MM falls on the sword...

[Stevein2012]

21 minutes ago, Green19 said:

It’s an issue if your offense is based on QB and WR being on the same page when it comes to post snap reading and reacting. If your offense is based on a scheme where it’s like WR1 you need to be here ... you don’t need to rep a ton. It’s getting to a spot and knowing what those spots are given the play.

GBs offense is based on post snap looks... Rodgers needs to trust his WRs are going to see what he sees and make the right call (it’s not like regardless the post snap read you go here even if it means you run yourself into coverage). It’s why he tends to not throw to young WR. He needs reps with them... to work out what he wants. So again he needs reps. It’s why you saw a lot of guys in the same spot yesterday... because they are post snap reading and getting it mixed up. 

30 more snaps in preseason isn't going to fix issues that are happening in week 5 lol.  Skipping preseason could maybe be blamed on being rusty in week 1 but the amount of actual game snaps in week 1 is double what you expect your starters to usually play in a preseason.

[Pugger]

34 minutes ago, Green19 said:

It’s an issue if your offense is based on QB and WR being on the same page when it comes to post snap reading and reacting. If your offense is based on a scheme where it’s like WR1 you need to be here ... you don’t need to rep a ton. It’s getting to a spot and knowing what those spots are given the play.

GBs offense is based on post snap looks... Rodgers needs to trust his WRs are going to see what he sees and make the right call (it’s not like regardless the post snap read you go here even if it means you run yourself into coverage). It’s why he tends to not throw to young WR. He needs reps with them... to work out what he wants. So again he needs reps. It’s why you saw a lot of guys in the same spot yesterday... because they are post snap reading and getting it mixed up. 

Let's hope with Rodgers getting healthier he'll practice more with these promising young WRs going forward.  Perhaps then we'll see our old offense come back to life.  Getting Cobb and Geronimo back will help too.

[Pugger]

35 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

why are you only looking at what those coaches did this year?  Quinn has horrible injury problems and a proven ability to recruit and develop top coordinator talent.  You really think Minnesota is gonna wind up with a below average D this year?

What's wrong with Carroll?  I hate his schtick but it works well.

These are my opinions on who is a good coach in the NFL.  Most of those coaches could have done better than what McCarthy did over his career.  I'm not proposing we swap them out now or anything, but Reid is easily a better coach than Mac, as are a few others.

Reid?  What has he ever done?  His teams always start out like a house of fire and fizzle out in December.

[Green19]

14 minutes ago, Stevein2012 said:

30 more snaps in preseason isn't going to fix issues that are happening in week 5 lol.  Skipping preseason could maybe be blamed on being rusty in week 1 but the amount of actual game snaps in week 1 is double what you expect your starters to usually play in a preseason.

You aren’t wrong... but Rodgers has been injured since week 1. So he hasn’t been practicing. So again my point is they need practice reps.

But they aren’t going to get those. So to help McCarthy and Rodgers can try to get the offense going by just focusing on get a first down... rather than trying to take the other team’s soul. They don’t. At least not consistently...

 

Its why they are so up and down. If they are on... great. If not they are fighting up hill. And it doesn’t help if they get down early because they are chasing. But they  can be more consistent and play themselves into being on fire if they take the time early on to just focus small.

[Pugger]

5 minutes ago, Green19 said:

You aren’t wrong... but Rodgers has been injured since week 1. So he hasn’t been practicing. So again my point is they need practice reps.

But they aren’t going to get those. So to help McCarthy and Rodgers can try to get the offense going by just focusing on get a first down... rather than trying to take the other team’s soul. They don’t. At least not consistently...

 

Its why they are so up and down. If they are on... great. If not they are fighting up hill. And it doesn’t help if they get down early because they are chasing. But they  can be more consistent and play themselves into being on fire if they take the time early on to just focus small.

THIS!!!

Whenever we go into no -huddle and go with quick passes the offense is so much better than when AR stands back there trying to make a big play.  Keep doing what works until they stop it.

[Leader]

3 minutes ago, Pugger said:

THIS!!!

Whenever we go into no -huddle and go with quick passes the offense is so much better than when AR stands back there trying to make a big play.  Keep doing what works until they stop it.

Not as easily done with rookie WRs.

[incognito_man]

1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

Belicheck, Payton, Pederson, McVay.

Those are the only 4 I'd take straight up over Mac. Some of yours are downright bad. Quinn and his 1-4 Falcons? Carroll??? Zimmer the defensive specialist coaching one of the worst defenses in the NFL? How is that any better than Mac.

Mac is in the class with Reid, Tomlin, Lewis, and Rivera as the group of good NFL coaches who might need a change of scenery of they don't win it all in the next 1-2 years.

I continue to parse this down.

McVay and Pederson have yet to show they are better. They're both just 'different' for now.

I'll keep saying it: it's relatively easy to get good, it's really hard to stay good. If Pederson stacks his success and if McVay achieves real success and then stacks it, they can be in the conversation.

It's like crowning RGIII at this point. Whoops.

Belichick, Tomlin and Reid are the only coaches I'd even bother to listen to an argument over MM for right now. Payton isn't as good pretty clearly IMO.

I think McVay and Pederson have a decent chance at being in the convo at some point. But one hasn't done anything yet (other than have his GM sign a great FA class and inherit a talented roster with high draft picks) and one won a SB with a back-up QB but is off to a rocky start now...

Having a better team one year or even two years doesn't make someone a better coach. They just have different ideas that are novel now and a roster full of cheap talent. Why is all the context ignored?