Aztec Hammer Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 He’s doing well and is bringing a spark to us that no other QB was able to for a long time. I do think he needs to improve vs the blitz and pressure. I think he completed 42% against that yesterday. That was always my main worry with Baker, how he does against pressure when his lack of height means he can get enveloped a bit. There were a couple of sacks he took where he didn’t seem to cope well with the pressure collapsing the pocket. With time, he is really nice. I’d say he’s doing about as well as we could hope for at this early stage. Expecting a 2:1 TD:INT ratio as many were always felt a bit too lofty. 59% and a 1:1 TD:INT ratio isn’t great but it’s doing the job because the team is performing really nicely with complimentary football in the most part and doing a good job of hitting key moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 12 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I’m glad many are seeing now what others saw in Baker pre draft. I was definitely a Darnold fan, but was absolutely cool with Baker too (I liked Rosen too, but not for us). Dude has a legit NFL skill set that was dismissed because of his college offense. His arm is legit. He makes wow throws. He has very good pocket presence. He has the mentality needed to play against tough opponents and “slay the beast”. He makes others better. He has great accuracy. Those that doubted that Baker was a top 10 to 5 prospect in the draft did so because of bias or due to heavy dislike of his instances of emotional immaturity as there was no way to watch his tape and not see his elite skills. The thing I love most about the rookie QB class' play is going back and reviewing the pre-draft evaluations of the QBs by people that claim to really 'watch film." A lot of the pro-Darnold/pro-Rosen crowd acted as if Baker wouldn't have success in the league, that he was basically undraftable or a late 1st or early 2nd round pick. And now...Hilariously, there were so many people in that community that are shocked and surprised at how well Baker is playing now and are surprised at Darnold's and Rosen's struggles. It's going to be fun to see assessments of this rookie class year 1; year 2; year 3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggieCamp Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 12 hours ago, Bonanza23 said: One thing I was “proven wrong” with Baker is I’m convinced he’s not a system qb nor will he ever be. A huge reason why he very well could be a franchise qb, one of the top in the league. This guy gets it. I was the same. I held his college system against him. In a "normal" draft, I would've been completely fine with taking him, but the fact that Darnold and Rosen were available to us, he seemed like an unneeded gamble to me. Ecstatic to be proven wrong. He has so many traits that will bring success in the NFL. Funny thing is, he probably had his worst game yesterday (at least in my eyes), but he took care of business when he needed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Here's why I love Baker and loved the selection: He did not have real flaws as a prospect other than his size, which I have always maintained was overblown. He had a massive OL at Oklahoma and it never affected him in the least. Same has held true in the NFL, as he changes angles to fit the ball into tight spots. Coming out of college, he had every intangible quality you look for. He had fully developed things that NFL veterans struggle with. He has elite poise in the face of the blitz, he keeps his eyes down the field, he is careful with the football, he scans the field and makes full field reads, he's got pinpoint accuracy and hits WR's in stride...plus he's a solid athlete and has a superb arm. Oh, and people love him because he's a natural and charismatic leader. Baker Mayfield is a beast and is already the best QB we've had since Bernie Kosar. Change my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 24 minutes ago, Mind Character said: Those that doubted that Baker was a top 10 to 5 prospect in the draft did so because of bias or due to heavy dislike of his instances of emotional immaturity as there was no way to watch his tape and not see his elite skills. And now...Hilariously, there were so many people in that community that are shocked and surprised at how well Baker is playing now and are surprised at Darnold's and Rosen's struggles. It's going to be fun to see assessments of this rookie class year 1; year 2; year 3... Chill. It’s a quarter of the way through a rookie season. You’re writing as if you’ve seen the future. Darnold has a better TD:INT ratio than Mayfield currently. They’ve both had games with multiple turnovers. They’re all going through good moments growing pains. Except Josh Allen, who looks utterly lost out there (take snap. bail right. heave it late out of bounds or into hands of db). I have always maintained what my biggest worry with Baker was/is. Versus blitz or collapsing pocket. I never doubted his ability to zip it in when he has time. I doubted how that would translate when facing tougher pressure where his lack of height might show up in the pocket. He was 42% vs the blitz yesterday. I feel very good about him being our franchise QB because I’ve seen a lot of nice things, primarily accuracy and a great demeanour. But let’s not act like he’s perfect, the other guys suck and it’s set in stone. It’s been a few games. Not even Josh Allen is a guaranteed bust at this point, even if that seems quite likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: He did not have real flaws as a prospect other than his size IMO... that is just not accurate. For those of us that Loved Darnold/Rosen the prospect, Darnold/Rosen had serious and real flaws. For those that Loved Baker, there were serious and real flaws. He was an elite prospect, but like ALL prospect his film presented evaluators with some real issues that had to be considered in his scouting assessment: How he handled inside pressure.... blitz avoidance footwork to avoid pressure, keep eyes down field (not drop eyes), and reset on a newly created throwing platform. Separating player ability from elite scheme (see Kyler Murray). It can be true that a scheme is elite; making the QBs job easier AND the QB within the scheme also not be scheme dependent. Separating player ability from lack of competition. Oklahoma was dominant and seldom tested by its opponents. Specifically, Baker was seldom tested by NFL type talent WHEN that talent was playing at a high level. Elite, NFL type Anticipation throwing inside the hashes when inside pressure and to a lesser extent outside pressure is bearing down on him. The above list of issues were significant issues to be considered in evaluation and assessment of Baker's pro-projection. However, due to his elite skill, anyone that had Baker lower than a top 12 overall talent in the draft likely was not seeing things clearly ( I had him at 10 and 11 overall prospect and the 2nd QB prospect when it was all said and done meaning he was a top 5 prospect based on QB scarcity). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said: Chill. It’s a quarter of the way through a rookie season. You’re writing as if you’ve seen the future. Darnold has a better TD:INT ratio than Mayfield currently. They’ve both had games with multiple turnovers. They’re all going through good moments growing pains. Except Josh Allen, who looks utterly lost out there (take snap. bail right. heave it late out of bounds or into hands of db). I have always maintained what my biggest worry with Baker was/is. Versus blitz or collapsing pocket. I never doubted his ability to zip it in when he has time. I doubted how that would translate when facing tougher pressure where his lack of height might show up in the pocket. He was 42% vs the blitz yesterday. I feel very good about him being our franchise QB because I’ve seen a lot of nice things, primarily accuracy and a great demeanour. But let’s not act like he’s perfect, the other guys suck and it’s set in stone. It’s been a few games. Not even Josh Allen is a guaranteed bust at this point, even if that seems quite likely. They've all shown something. Allen looks like a poor mans Cam Newton. Rosen has thrown a few pretty balls. Darnold has done well extending plays and hit a couple bombs yesterday. Baker has been the best by a wide margin though. If you are using his completion percentage against him you aren't watching the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 15 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said: Chill. It’s a quarter of the way through a rookie season. You’re writing as if you’ve seen the future. Darnold has a better TD:INT ratio than Mayfield currently. They’ve both had games with multiple turnovers. They’re all going through good moments growing pains. Except Josh Allen, who looks utterly lost out there (take snap. bail right. heave it late out of bounds or into hands of db). I have always maintained what my biggest worry with Baker was/is. Versus blitz or collapsing pocket. I never doubted his ability to zip it in when he has time. I doubted how that would translate when facing tougher pressure where his lack of height might show up in the pocket. He was 42% vs the blitz yesterday. I feel very good about him being our franchise QB because I’ve seen a lot of nice things, primarily accuracy and a great demeanour. But let’s not act like he’s perfect, the other guys suck and it’s set in stone. It’s been a few games. Not even Josh Allen is a guaranteed bust at this point, even if that seems quite likely. Lol. I'm definitely not writing as if I've seen the future. I'll let the situation unfold as it will and remain skeptical with the belief that things look promising right now but nothing is even close certainty at this early stage. Read this post (below) that I made in this thread on page one... I haven't crowned anyone and I'm one of the main people trying to temper people's expectations and opinions based on historical context. I've also numerous times said that Darnold would struggle mightily in year 1 if he was forced to start as I didn't believe he was ready year 1... despite this belief I still believed he was the best QB for various reasons that we won't get into again. And... also had Baker Mayfield having the most success in his first year, but Darnold and Rosen surpassing Baker by year 3... 13 hours ago, Mind Character said: @Fatgerman @Bonanza23 @MistaBohmbastic It looks very very promising, and it is very very exciting, but having followed the game for a very long time... it is wise to not get too high and to not get too low, pump the breaks a little bit and give it some time... we're 5 games in. History as a guide reminds us that we should stay even keel as: 1.) Many QBs have been horrendous to really bad out of the gate and ended up being elite and/or MVP candidate types (i.e., Jared Goff, Alex Smith, Matthew Stafford, Drew Brees, Eli Manning...etc) 2.) Many QBs have started out on fire out the gate, were anointed saviors/best in the game types and compared to HOFers only to have their play regress to average or become irrelevant for various periods of time for various reasons (Chad Pennington, Marcus Mariota, Jameis Winston, Daunte Culpepper, Blake Bortles, Dak Prescott, RG3, Andy Dalton-Dalton's trending back up, etc..) 3.) Some QBs start out well and maintain that level of play and even elevate it to elite stratosphere of Quarterbacking consider to be MVP or top 5 elite Quarterbacking (Carson Wentz, Philliip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, etc..) The most important thing Baker is doing is winning. He looks poised, accurate, and in complete control. BUT... no matter how good it feels or how promising it looks history tells us that we should not get too high or get too low. Enjoy the ride... and hope Baker keeps progressing and stays healthy... His hand size and leader of men shall lead us to victory .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Just now, Thomas5737 said: They've all shown something. Allen looks like a poor mans Cam Newton. Rosen has thrown a few pretty balls. Darnold has done well extending plays and hit a couple bombs yesterday. Baker has been the best by a wide margin though. If you are using his completion percentage against him you aren't watching the games. I’m not judging any of them in a particularly major way yet, that’s my point. They’ve played a few games. Read my post again Thomas. I am not using his completing percentage against him. I’m simply bringing up that if I have a primary worry about Baker, it’s his play vs the blitz. I only brought up one stat about his numbers vs that category yesterday to bring light to my slight worry. We have to be allowed to be objective in here, even if it’s about the qb we all love. I think it’s a stretch to say any of the rookie qbs have been “the best by a wide margin”. Though I would say Mayfield and Darnold have been the two best. Allen has been the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 @Mind Character I wasn’t calling you out exclusively bro. I just meant more your general point about Year 1, 2, 3 and other qb ‘struggles’. More so I meant that in general it’s way too early, and I felt your post had a few elements in it that are perhaps a bit too early to declare in the grand scheme of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Aztec Hammer said: I’m not judging any of them in a particularly major way yet, that’s my point. They’ve played a few games. Read my post again Thomas. I am not using his completing percentage against him. I’m simply bringing up that if I have a primary worry about Baker, it’s his play vs the blitz. I only brought up one stat about his numbers vs that category yesterday to bring light to my slight worry. We have to be allowed to be objective in here, even if it’s about the qb we all love. I think it’s a stretch to say any of the rookie qbs have been “the best by a wide margin”. Though I would say Mayfield and Darnold have been the two best. Allen has been the worst. We have to be allowed to counter criticism too. Been doing it since before the draft it isn't stopping now. Baker is in my opinion the best rookie QB so far by a wide margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 36 minutes ago, ReggieCamp said: I was the same. I held his college system against him. In a "normal" draft, I would've been completely fine with taking him, but the fact that Darnold and Rosen were available to us, he seemed like an unneeded gamble to me. Ecstatic to be proven wrong. He has so many traits that will bring success in the NFL. Funny thing is, he probably had his worst game yesterday (at least in my eyes), but he took care of business when he needed to. Yep. I was against his height. I just wanted so badly to have a big strong armed dude slinging the ball. But... One of the things I keyed on later in my evaluation process of him was how he handled the pocket. I came away REALLY impressed by how he always found throwing lanes and as soon as he did the ball was out. That to me signaled elite processing power. I still had him 3rd by the time all was said and done, but he moved up significantly in my opinion. I was convinced my top three would at least be very good qbs. I’m still not convinced Allen will be a bust. Hopefully we got the best of the lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Thomas5737 said: We have to be allowed to counter criticism too. Been doing it since before the draft it isn't stopping now. Baker is in my opinion the best rookie QB so far by a wide margin. That’s fair. I respect your opinion, that’s for sure. For me, I think Mayfield and Darnold have had the best moments but even they have made mistakes and had growing pains. Darnold vs us in that second half couldn’t do anything. Baker vs Oakland turned the ball over too much and made a bad decision in overtime. But then they’ve shown real promise. Darnold vs Detroit and the poise on his debut to comeback from that first throw. Darnold vs Denver yesterday with a couple of brilliant bombs in a difficult game. Baker vs Jets with the epic debut and command of the offense. Baker vs Ravens with the key overtime clutch play in a difficult game. Statistically there isn’t a great deal between them either way. They’re both showing they can win and make plays. It’s early though. I don’t even want to say Josh Allen sucks at this point. Even if the eyeball test and his stats would suggest so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 13 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: They've all shown something. Allen looks like a poor mans Cam Newton. Rosen has thrown a few pretty balls. Darnold has done well extending plays and hit a couple bombs yesterday. Baker has been the best by a wide margin though. If you are using his completion percentage against him you aren't watching the games. To the bolded, this is why when I evaluate a qb I never use completion percentage. Like ever again. Brady Quinn weaned me off of that garbage stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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