Drew Brees - new all time passing yardage leader

[childofpudding]

1 minute ago, rob_shadows said:

I think that's what he meant, that he wouldn't take this argument that far

Ah yes, misread his reply. Dat lancerman with the self-deprecating humor, haha

[lancerman]

2 minutes ago, rob_shadows said:

I think that's what he meant, that he wouldn't take this argument that far

This is what I meant. I was just being sarcastic to egg it on my posts. Asciimo was going to war. Tears in my eyes.... from the salt

[SkippyX]

1 hour ago, upriser7 said:

exactly...thing is there is no need for them to be salty...but if you look at this thread, they are the one's who started downplaying Brees achievements by calling him statpadder blah blah...just shows their insecurity

I am not a Patriots fan. I read multiple people crying about Brady's defenses or how Brees would have 5 rings in New England and other crap like that and I countered some pathetic arguments. If countering delusion is salty then call me salty all day.

Looking at a great player who has accomplished great things and then pitying him for his bad teammates/defense is the lowest form of debate.

I had someone telling me that Colston and Graham were not high quality pass catching targets to make themselves feel better about Brees. 

Text book insecurity is knowing you have a top 5 all-time QB and pretending he is number 1 for some reason.

 

Brady was the greatest QB before the comeback vs Atlanta. Now he is the greatest player in NFL history.

No insecurity is required to recognize that. It does take a daily dose of butt-hurt to deny his greatness though.

[Ryan_W]

when every game is a shootout because your teams gives up 30+ every time

how does his arm not fall off...?

I'm sure if the context was different he'd pad COMP, PCT, SACKS, TDs given the chance

[Wolverine_Joe]

17 hours ago, PapaShogun said:

There is no GOAT. The end. 

 

then what's the point of watching sports?   GOAT debate is fun and it's what makes any sports special.   even in  the NBA people argue against Jordan.  Bron and Kareem gets many GOAT considerations even when the public and media crowned Jordan as the GOAT.  

and  you niners fans annointed Montana and Rice as the GOATs for 2 decades.   

i do kind of miss the days of brady/manning days when we had fun arguing who's better than who.   but the GOAT debate is over and it bores me.  i don't need to get angry about somebody calling out brady as a system QB anymore.  

 

 

 

 

[JAF-N72EX]

1 hour ago, Wolverine_Joe said:

 

then what's the point of watching sports?   GOAT debate is fun and it's what makes any sports special.   even in  the NBA people argue against Jordan.  Bron and Kareem gets many GOAT considerations even when the public and media crowned Jordan as the GOAT.  

and  you niners fans annointed Montana and Rice as the GOATs for 2 decades.   

i do kind of miss the days of brady/manning days when we had fun arguing who's better than who.   but the GOAT debate is over and it bores me.  i don't need to get angry about somebody calling out brady as a system QB anymore.  

Correction. It used to be fun. but It's far too subjective to be fun anymore. The times and rules have changed all of that. 

It's hard for an old head like myself who grew up watching the 80's and 90's to debate with 14-24 year old kids who can never understand how much the game has changed when they haven't seen it with their own eyes. You can watch ESPN classics or youtube or anything else....all day long.  But you will never have the same perspective as those of us who have. 

Most of the users here weren't even born until the 90's or later and are mostly sheep who just follow what other sheep who tell them to follow in social media and take their word as bond. Instead of actually taking the time to check the facts. Laziness. 

To all of those who I'm talking too, just remember this 20 years from now and you will be preaching the same thing.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

2 hours ago, Wolverine_Joe said:

 

then what's the point of watching sports?   GOAT debate is fun and it's what makes any sports special.   even in  the NBA people argue against Jordan.  Bron and Kareem gets many GOAT considerations even when the public and media crowned Jordan as the GOAT.  

and  you niners fans annointed Montana and Rice as the GOATs for 2 decades.   

i do kind of miss the days of brady/manning days when we had fun arguing who's better than who.   but the GOAT debate is over and it bores me.  i don't need to get angry about somebody calling out brady as a system QB anymore.  

 

 

 

 

To watch who wins a game?

I didn't say you can't a make a comparison for who the GOAT QB is. However due to so many factors being involved for a QB's success, it's just an argument in futility. There is no GOAT. It's just playing the "what if" game all day or stacking someone's accomplishments against another, and across different eras. That's not a logical method of comparison, even if it's the closest you can get. At least with quarterback.

Other 49ers fans don't speak for me. I don't think Rice or Montana are the greatest to play at their positions in terms of ability. Best I'd surmise is that they're clearly in the group for best that has ever played. 

Oh, and the NBA isn't the NFL. 

[lancerman]

3 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Correction. It used to be fun. but It's far too subjective to be fun anymore. The times and rules have changed all of that. 

It's hard for an old head like myself who grew up watching the 80's and 90's to debate with 14-24 year old kids who can never understand how much the game has changed when they haven't seen it with their own eyes. You can watch ESPN classics or youtube or anything else....all day long.  But you will never have the same perspective as those of us who have. 

Most of the users here weren't even born until the 90's or later and are mostly sheep who just follow what other sheep who tell them to follow in social media and take their word as bond. Instead of actually taking the time to check the facts. Laziness. 

To all of those who I'm talking too, just remember this 20 years from now and you will be preaching the same thing.

Or maybe you are an old man yelling into the clouds 

[SkippyX]

I get that a lot of this is tribalism as someone said earlier and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

If someone does want to look deeper at the 5000 yard season is automatic greatness myth then I direct them towards 2012.

Brees 2012 Game Logs from PFR (just go to pro football reference and look them up if you don't trust the link)

He had 4 home losses in close games where he threw a combined 6 picks.

He had a 10 point loss in Atlanta where he threw 5 picks.

If he finished the season with 13 picks instead of a league leading 19 then maybe that 7-9 team is 10-6 or 11-5 and in the playoffs.

That distinction is between a Hall of Famer on the way to yet another well deserved Pro Bowl OR a truly great season.

Sure the D was absolutely atrocious (ranked 31 / 32), but his skill, coaching, and offensive players had him in position to win more than he did.

 

His season was statistically impressive and part of a GREAT career, but as a whole it was not a season of GREAT QB play.

 

He is 10x better than a guy like Jim Kelly who had 2 standout seasons in his entire career, but we are talking about top 5 guys.

If the argument is 'Would Brees have won Super Bowls with the '90s Bills?' then I don't think you wold get a lot of disagreement.

[Wolverine_Joe]

7 hours ago, PapaShogun said:

To watch who wins a game?

I didn't say you can't a make a comparison for who the GOAT QB is. However due to so many factors being involved for a QB's success, it's just an argument in futility. There is no GOAT. It's just playing the "what if" game all day or stacking someone's accomplishments against another, and across different eras. That's not a logical method of comparison, even if it's the closest you can get. At least with quarterback.

Other 49ers fans don't speak for me. I don't think Rice or Montana are the greatest to play at their positions in terms of ability. Best I'd surmise is that they're clearly in the group for best that has ever played. 

Oh, and the NBA isn't the NFL. 

i understand where you are coming from. what if games go nowhere for sure. but it should be 'what did he do' game. 

at the end of the day GOAT debate should be results driven.    brady is no brady if he didn't win.  montana ain't no montana if he didn't win.    what would we think of jordan if he never failed to overcome pistons and never got to dominate the 90's by winning rings?  

   and GOAT isn't a talent debate either.  throwing a pretty deep ball in traffic for 6 isn't any better than 6 min methodical break downs of the D to get a hard earned 6 in my opinion.  

 

   

 

 

 

 

[SkippyX]

1 minute ago, SkippyX said:

I get that a lot of this is tribalism as someone said earlier and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

If someone does want to look deeper at the 5000 yard season is automatic greatness myth then I direct them towards 2012.

Brees 2012 Game Logs from PFR (just go to pro football reference and look them up if you don't trust the link)

He had 4 home losses in close games where he threw a combined 6 picks.

He had a 10 point loss in Atlanta where he threw 5 picks.

If he finished the season with 13 picks instead of a league leading 19 then maybe that 7-9 team is 10-6 or 11-5 and in the playoffs.

That distinction is between a Hall of Famer on the way to yet another well deserved Pro Bowl OR a truly great season.

Sure the D was absolutely atrocious (ranked 31 / 32), but his skill, coaching, and offensive players had him in position to win more than he did.

 

His season was statistically impressive and part of a GREAT career, but as a whole it was not a season of GREAT QB play.

• This is where Win Loss comparison haters are dead wrong

He is 10x better than a guy like Jim Kelly who had 2 standout seasons in his entire career, but we are talking about top 5 guys.

If the argument is 'Would Brees have won Super Bowls with the '90s Bills?' then I don't think you wold get a lot of disagreement.

 

[tyler735]

10 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

I get that a lot of this is tribalism as someone said earlier and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

If someone does want to look deeper at the 5000 yard season is automatic greatness myth then I direct them towards 2012.

Brees 2012 Game Logs from PFR (just go to pro football reference and look them up if you don't trust the link)

He had 4 home losses in close games where he threw a combined 6 picks.

He had a 10 point loss in Atlanta where he threw 5 picks.

If he finished the season with 13 picks instead of a league leading 19 then maybe that 7-9 team is 10-6 or 11-5 and in the playoffs.

That distinction is between a Hall of Famer on the way to yet another well deserved Pro Bowl OR a truly great season.

Sure the D was absolutely atrocious (ranked 31 / 32), but his skill, coaching, and offensive players had him in position to win more than he did.

 

His season was statistically impressive and part of a GREAT career, but as a whole it was not a season of GREAT QB play.

 

He is 10x better than a guy like Jim Kelly who had 2 standout seasons in his entire career, but we are talking about top 5 guys.

If the argument is 'Would Brees have won Super Bowls with the '90s Bills?' then I don't think you wold get a lot of disagreement.

This did get me thinking back a bit on Drew Brees's career with the Saints, and I've seen the argument in the past from others that Sean Payton should also be credited with Brees's success (To an extent I suppose that could be true). The funny thing about the 2012 season is Brees played without Sean Payton due to his suspension that year and still put up over 5,000 yards and 44 touchdowns.

The problems I have with calling this season statistically impressive, but not great QB play base off of interceptions, do we know how many of those interceptions were actually Drew Brees's fault (bounce off a WR's hands/running the wrong route)? I'll be the first to admit he has thrown some interceptions at costly times. This has often been when he's been involved in constant shootouts. This has typically meant opposing defenses know we aren't going to run the ball as we would have to constantly pass to keep pace giving up nearly 30 points per game for years. 

The Saint defense had an average of 28.4 points against them in that 2012 season, which is right there with the worst in the league. If we look at the 2013 season, our defense was playing much better (top 5 points against that year), and Brees had just 12 interceptions to go with his 42 touchdowns, and 5,162 yards passing. On top of that, Brees also went to the postseason that year as the Saints had a 11-5 record. Side note, this isn't a pissing contest in regards to Brady. I think we both rate Brees around the same as a top 5 QB. 

 

[Jlowe22]

29 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

 

I don't want to get into this, because I don't think Brees is the GOAT anyway, so it's pointless.  But the bringing up bad games played by a QB can be used against anybody.  Like Manning, who won the MVP with a top ten defense while throwing 16 picks and the game losing pick 6.  Or Marino, who had multiple 5 pick games.  Or Favre, who was well known for his boneheaded picks.

If you say Brady has had less bad games than other top QBs, I won't argue with you, I think he's th GOAT.  But even he has had bad games.

My point is only that there are several other candidates often touted as in the GOAT conversation who have had bad games.  

And the overwhelming factor that prevented the Saints from having more success over the years was defense. If Brees needs to play like an MVP every year to make the playoffs, then the team is not great.  In his cases, the defense.

[Hunter2_1]

Great job, Drew. 

Great QB, seems a good guy and giving all of us 6'0 and below guys a real shot in the arm

[FrantikRam]

Brees is easily the 3rd best QB of all time IMO. Behind Brady and Manning.