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MKnight82

Fire Bruce Allen

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If Kirk continues the pace he’s currently on I have no idea how anybody could save Bruce’s job? Right now the statistical comparison between Smith and Cousins is embarrassing and we appear to have made, yet again, another boneheaded move. Honestly at this point Snyder has to try to suck this bad as an owner. 

I just don’t understand how anyone can continue on defending this Alex Smith trade? He doesn’t fit this offense and the only way we can win is if Peterson runs all over the other team. The best part is we went out and overpaid Paul Richardson to compound the error because the QB we traded for won’t throw the ball further than 10 yards down the field. All of this was one massive failure by our GM. He completely botched the Kirk situation, traded our best young defensive back and a third round pick to acquire a QB who’s been dumped by two other organizations and then gave him $90M. How all of this together doesn’t result in someone losing their job I’ll never know? 

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On 10/9/2018 at 1:53 PM, Woz said:

With Allen at the helm? No.

With someone competent as a GM and Jay Gruden as the coach? Maybe, but I'm dubious.

With someone competent as a GM and a decent head coach? Doable.

 

Remember, the Eagles won a Super Bowl two years after Chip Kelly was fired and they cleaned house. I'm not saying it would happen for Washington, but it's not beyond the pale.

I agree with that and the bolded says what I feel.At least one season to clean house and maybe compete in two years.So why not let the rookie QB watch for a season.Worked for Mahomes

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anybody who tries to argue Bruce or Danny are anything other than bottom feeders as a GM, President and owner?

 

giphy.gif

 

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13 hours ago, turtle28 said:

In all fairness, you’re responding to my point. I said something, you moved the goal post.

WHAT! LOL. I asked how sitting them a month is beneficial at all? What's the difference? They get more out of playing that month with the experience than just sitting. Don't brash me for "moving the goal posts" while you wear the crown. I'm sorry you're "frustrated" when your point missed. 

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13 hours ago, lavar703 said:

I stand by my prediction that this will be the last year of Jay and Bruce in DC. And this is exactly why I despised the trade for Alex Smith. 

We’re 2-2, kind of where we thought we’d be or hoped to be after the first month. 

Smith has been up and down, as has the WR corps, running game, OL & D, kid of what we expected to start the season esp. with a lot of new parts in the passing game and w/o Bree & Fuller.

I don’t know that this first month tells us much of anything in terms of how the team will be playing in another month or two. One thing to consider is how young we are - especially on D - I expect those players are going to get better as the year goes on. 

If the Redskins are a bottom feeding team - which I don’t expect - Gruden is probably gone. I don’t believe Bruce will be gone until I see him drive away from Redskins Park like Shanahan. If the Redskins are a 7 to 9 win team - which is what I expect - I think Gruden gets at least a second year with Alex Smith.

I definitely agree Bruce screwed the pooch on the Cousins deal but there’s also the fact that Cousins didn’t even come to the table with a counter offer after being franchised. That goes both ways. 

It’s also hard to compare what Cousins is doing with Diggs & Theilen and the Vikings WR corps vs what Smith is working with in the Redskins WR corps. Heck, Doctson hasn’t even shown up this year, is that Smith’s fault? 

Diggs & Theilen got Keenum paid $18 million and were a key reason that team got to the NFCCG now Keenum is struggling in Denver despite having Demaryius Thomas and Sanders. 

So, I’d say that yes, Cousins is playing better than Smith (except for the Bills game where Cousins was awful) but at the same time, I’d also say that he’s playing with two pro bowl caliber WRs. It’s pretty clear Alex is not. Let’s not forget Kirk also struggled last year at times with the Redskins WR corps.

Edited by turtle28

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18 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

No.  But honestly I feel like when Dan Snyder applies for public funds to build his new stadium the local politicians should put it on the ballot on election day and let the people paying taxes in that district vote if they feel Snyder deserves public funding.  

That aint for another 8 years. 2026 is when the FedEx lease is up. By then, this team may have no upper bowl for fans to come and watch the crap they put in that toilet. 

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2 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

WHAT! LOL. I asked how sitting them a month is beneficial at all? What's the difference? They get more out of playing that month with the experience than just sitting. Don't brash me for "moving the goal posts" while you wear the crown. I'm sorry you're "frustrated" when your point missed. 

I think it’s been proven that it does usually help QBs to sit some, even if it isn’t an entire year. If they aren’t ready, then they aren’t ready. There’s no reason to put a rookie QB out there to get obliterated early on in the season with a bad team if he’s not ready. Sometimes those QBs who go through that never recover because of the hits they take behind a bad OL as young QBs. See David Carr and Blane Gabbert as recent examples.

That’s my take, it’s fair to disagree but my opinion isn’t changing. Now, if the rookie is clearly better than the veteran then that’s a different story. If the rookie is clearly the best qb, he should play day 1.

Edited by turtle28

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On 10/10/2018 at 7:50 PM, turtle28 said:

It doesn’t mean they started the whole year. That was my point. Why do I have to write my point in blood for people to understand what I’m trying to say?

ughh so frustrating 

Here's a list of all quarterbacks taken over the past five years who started at least one game in their career along with the number of games they sat before their first start (I'm cutting off at 2014 for two reasons: 1. That class is entirely in the "had started in the past" section; and 2. It takes a long time to go through all of the possible quarterbacks who started and I'm getting tired of it):

  • Currently starters
    • 2018
      • 1.01 (1) = Baker Mayfield (sat for 2.5 games behind Tyrod Taylor)
      • 1.03 (3) = Sam Darnold (sat for 0 games)
      • 1.07 (7) = Josh Allen (sat for 0.5 game behind Nathan Peterman)
      • 1.10 (10) = Josh Rosen (sat for 2.5 games behind Sam Bradford)
    • 2017
      • 1.02 (2) = Mitch Trubisky (sat for 4 games behind Mike Glennon)
      • 1.10 (10) = Patrick Mahomes (sat for 15 games behind Alex Smith)
      • 1.12 (12) = DeShaun Watson (sat for 0.5 game behind Tom Savage)
    • 2016
      • 1.01 (1) = Jared Goff (sat for 9 games behind Case Keenum)
      • 1.02 (2) = Carson Wentz (sat for 0 games)
      • 4.37 (135) = Dak Prescott (sat for 0 games)
    • 2015
      • 1.01 (1) = Jameis Winston (sat for 0 games)
      • 1.02 (2) = Marcus Mariota (sat for 0 games)
    • 2014
      • 1.03 (3) = Blake Bortles (sat for 3 games behind Chad Henne)
      • 2.04 (36) = Derek Carr (sat for 0 games)
      • 2.30 (62) = Jimmy Garoppolo (sat for 32 games behind Tom Brady)

This is what the NFL is doing these days: if you're a first round QB, you're starting within a month (exceptions: Johnny Manziel (due to questions of maturity), Jared Goff (due to a horrible head coach) and Patrick Mahomes (due to winning with Smith and didn't want to rock the boat until they could find some dummies to trade for him)). If you are a second round QB, you're starting within a month unless you are behind a future first ballot Hall of Famer (Garoppolo behind Brady) or you a complete waste of talent (Christian Hackenberg, who has yet to attempt a pass). After that, it's a crap shoot (see below).

So, the question becomes: out of all of those names, what do you think the player learned from sitting on the bench from the guy ahead of him? What do the franchises learn about the player having them sit on the bench? Remember, outside of first round picks, everyone gets four years. Sitting for four games for non-first rounders means that the team has wasted 6.3% of the player's contract.

 

  • Other guys who started (names in blue bold italics = backup now starting due to injury, names in orange bold italics = backup, names in red bold italics = out of the NFL)
    • 2017
      • 2.20 (52) = DeShone Kizer (sat for 0 games)
      • 3.40 (104) = C.J. Beathard (sat for 6 games behind Brian Hoyer)
      • 5.28 (171) = Nathan Peterman (sat for 9.5 games behind Tyrod Taylor)
    • 2016
      • 1.26 (26) = Paxton Lynch (sat for 4 games behind Trevor Siemian)
      • 3.29 (91) = Jacoby Brissett (sat for 2 games behind Tom Brady (due to suspension) and Jimmy Garoppolo)
      • 3.31 (93) = Cody Kessler (sat for 2 games behind Robert Griffin III and Josh McCown)
      • 5.25 (162) = Kevin Hogan (sat for 31 games behind Robert Griffin III, Josh McCown, Cody Kessler, and DeShone Kizer)
    • 2015(*)
      • 3.25 (89) = Sean Mannion (sat for 47 games behind Nick Foles, Case Keenum, and Jared Goff)
      • 4.04 (103) = Bryce Petty (sat for 25 games behind Ryan Fitzpatrick and Geno Smith)
      • 5.11 (147) = Brett Hundley (sat for 38 games behind Aaron Rodgers)
      • 7.33 (223) = Trevor Siemian (sat for 16 games behind Peyton Manning and Brock Osweiler)
    • 2014(**)
      • 1.22 (22) = Johnny Manziel (sat for 13 games behind Brian Hoyer)
      • 1.32 (32) = Teddy Bridgewater (sat for 2.5 games behind Matt Cassel)
      • 4.35 (135) = Tom Savage (sat for 46 games behind Ryan Fitzpatrick, Ryan Mallett, Case Keenum, Brian Hoyer, T.J. Yates, Brandon Weeden, and Brock Osweiler)
      • 5.24 (164) = A.J. McCarron (sat for 29 games behind Andy Dalton)
      • 6.02 (178) = Zach Mettenberger (sat for 7 games behind Jake Locker and Charlie Whitehurst)

 

(*) Something possibly interesting only to me: every quarterback but one in this class got at least one start in his career. The dud? Garrett Grayson (3.11 (75)), who is currently a street free agent having been cut by the Falcons before the start of the 2018 season.
(**) Logan Thomas technically has started but as a tight end. He did attempt nine passes in 2014 for Arizona, completing only one (though it was for a 81 yard TD).

 

 

Side note: In 2017, the Giants decided they had to sit Eli in order to do ... I don't know what. They opted to give the next start to Geno Smith, something that was ludicrously stupid at the time because there was plenty of tape showing that Geno could not cut in the NFL as a QB. What they should have done is given the start to Davis Webb, their third rookie round pick, to see if he could cut in the NFL. By not starting Webb, the Giants went into the 2018 draft not knowing if Webb was either the quarterback of the future (and thus they could take Barkley), a decent backup (and thus wouldn't need to take a QB again), or was just a guy. Instead, they took Barkley and Kyle Lauletta (in the fourth) and cut Webb before the season began. In essence, they wasted a third round pick for zero return.

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On 10/11/2018 at 1:29 AM, TKellion said:

I agree with that and the bolded says what I feel.At least one season to clean house and maybe compete in two years.So why not let the rookie QB watch for a season.Worked for Mahomes

If you look at my post, you'll see that rookie QBs don't sit generally unless they are behind a good-to-great veteran. Smith is not that guy here.

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On 10/11/2018 at 11:10 AM, turtle28 said:

I think it’s been proven that it does usually help QBs to sit some, even if it isn’t an entire year.

Please show your proofs.

On 10/11/2018 at 11:10 AM, turtle28 said:

If they aren’t ready, then they aren’t ready. There’s no reason to put a rookie QB out there to get obliterated early on in the season with a bad team if he’s not ready. Sometimes those QBs who go through that never recover because of the hits they take behind a bad OL as young QBs.

Assertions, not evidence. What if the team has an okay offensive line? Or is a good defensive team with an average to poor QB (Jacksonville, for instance)? Should the QB sit?

On 10/11/2018 at 11:10 AM, turtle28 said:

See David Carr and Blane Gabbert as recent examples.

Blaine Gabbert didn't get gunshy due to taking a ton of hits. He was never good. He had bust written all over him. So, you have one example ... from 2002.

On 10/11/2018 at 11:10 AM, turtle28 said:

That’s my take, it’s fair to disagree but my opinion isn’t changing. Now, if the rookie is clearly better than the veteran then that’s a different story. If the rookie is clearly the best qb, he should play day 1

So, who should the Giants have started last year when they decided to bench Eli? Geno Smith or Davis Webb?

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Bad news usually comes at 5 on Friday. Maybe this week will be it!

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17 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

Bad news usually comes at 5 on Friday. Maybe this week will be it!

giphy.gif

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I'm hoping Kyle Smith is running the 2019 Draft . Bright , young mind.

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6 hours ago, RSkinGM said:

I'm hoping Kyle Smith is running the 2019 Draft . Bright , young mind.

I think he did a lot of the work for the 2017 and 2018 drafts. At least, I thought that was reported by someone... probably John Keim or Rich Tandler RIP. 

Edited by turtle28

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On 10/12/2018 at 2:53 PM, Woz said:

Here's a list of all quarterbacks taken over the past five years who started at least one game in their career along with the number of games they sat before their first start (I'm cutting off at 2014 for two reasons: 1. That class is entirely in the "had started in the past" section; and 2. It takes a long time to go through all of the possible quarterbacks who started and I'm getting tired of it):

  • Currently starters
    • 2018
      • 1.01 (1) = Baker Mayfield (sat for 2.5 games behind Tyrod Taylor)
      • 1.03 (3) = Sam Darnold (sat for 0 games)
      • 1.07 (7) = Josh Allen (sat for 0.5 game behind Nathan Peterman)
      • 1.10 (10) = Josh Rosen (sat for 2.5 games behind Sam Bradford)
    • 2017
      • 1.02 (2) = Mitch Trubisky (sat for 4 games behind Mike Glennon)
      • 1.10 (10) = Patrick Mahomes (sat for 15 games behind Alex Smith)
      • 1.12 (12) = DeShaun Watson (sat for 0.5 game behind Tom Savage)
    • 2016
      • 1.01 (1) = Jared Goff (sat for 9 games behind Case Keenum)
      • 1.02 (2) = Carson Wentz (sat for 0 games)
      • 4.37 (135) = Dak Prescott (sat for 0 games)
    • 2015
      • 1.01 (1) = Jameis Winston (sat for 0 games)
      • 1.02 (2) = Marcus Mariota (sat for 0 games)
    • 2014
      • 1.03 (3) = Blake Bortles (sat for 3 games behind Chad Henne)
      • 2.04 (36) = Derek Carr (sat for 0 games)
      • 2.30 (62) = Jimmy Garoppolo (sat for 32 games behind Tom Brady)

 

I never saw this post until now, but I want to commend you for it. It's like football porn. 

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