Kip Smithers Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, PapaShogun said: Well, apparently he's the least accurate passer via PFF when throwing to open receivers this year. I don't think all of those throws are going to be when he's under duress either. And that data I posted earlier was from the last four years. Not just last year. He's gotten worse overall as a passer even with a clean pocket. He hasn’t declined in that aspect over the past 4 years. It’s just the last two years. In which the past year he was in an nearly impossible situation. Eli has declined for sure as have most of the other older QBs have but it’s being exacerbated by his protection and how mentally he seems out of sync Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Kip Smithers said: We have 5 new starters on the line. This isn’t a Seahawks situation where they’ve neglected it. This team has tried and just failed to work out. Solder has been average. Hernandez has been solid. The right side is a mess. Not enough. We could have told them Solder was slightly above average, but they decided to give him...I dunno...Munoz money or whatever. It is still slightly neglectful, how they've resourced it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Kip Smithers said: You brought up a flawed and misleading stat to imply Eli is bad even when he has time and I disproved that, don’t get antsy when it gets proven to be misleading. But to answer your rhetorical question, most of the statue QBs struggle when the play breaks down. This isn’t just Eli thing. Difference is that he isn’t under the same pressure as those. They don’t find themselves in situations where they continually have to try and create time. It wasn't proven to be misleading. You gave a plausible response that could only really be confirmed to any degree if we broke down every play over 2.5 seconds. No idea why he's getting 1000 excuses from you. He's a veteran QB that should be able to supplement some bad play from his teammates and this season he hasn't at all. Every QB is going to deal with bad o-line play, lack of consistent running game, or receivers playing poorly due to routes/dropped balls. They still have to be able to put their teams in position to win by making more good plays than bad plays on their behalf. Eli hasn't. He isn't helping the Giants at all. He's been in the league far too long to not offer some benefit to his offense when doesn't get perfect protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Malik said: http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-41037885-4 So yeah even when Eli has time he's still awful. This stat passes my eye test. There has been plenty of times this season where he's not being rushed and still throws a bad ball or misplaces one. He's never been all that accurate on short passes but he at least had a good long ball. Even that is lacking this season. I think he's had a bad line for so long that he's constantly in scramble/checkdown mindset. The only time he looked comfortable was the Houston game which is baffling to me with the talent on that line. He seems to be struggling with zone coverages this season. Even simple cover 2 he's making bad decisions against. I think it's time he's benched for good but Shurmur won't till at least after the bye when they are 1-7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elky Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 Here's another crazy thing: it's very possible that Eli could finish his NYG career (or even career in general) with a losing record as the starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belichick Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 31 minutes ago, Malik said: You gave a plausible response that could only really be confirmed to any degree if we broke down every play over 2.5 seconds. album of a compilation of said plays: https://imgur.com/a/BpPkdaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Malik said: It wasn't proven to be misleading. You gave a plausible response that could only really be confirmed to any degree if we broke down every play over 2.5 seconds. No idea why he's getting 1000 excuses from you. He's a veteran QB that should be able to supplement some bad play from his teammates and this season he hasn't at all. Every QB is going to deal with bad o-line play, lack of consistent running game, or receivers playing poorly due to routes/dropped balls. They still have to be able to put their teams in position to win by making more good plays than bad plays on their behalf. Eli hasn't. He isn't helping the Giants at all. He's been in the league far too long to not offer some benefit to his offense when doesn't get perfect protection. It is misleading. I watched all those said plays where he had time and very very few of them were they of him in a clean pocket. They’re explanations, not excuses. People like to conflate the two and act like football is not a team sport. And like how you just rationalise this as SOME bad plays from teammates as if it’s just SOME bad plays and acting as if those bad plays for what he is aren’t a great hindrance to him. You say every QB is gonna deal with bad o-line play, receiving issues, lack of running game. Yes true maybe a two or so in a season but not for 3 seasons straight. You act like this situation is par for the course and it’s common place around the league, no it isn’t. It really isn’t. This line is horrible, not just bad. Football is a team game and we love to act like blame cannot be apportioned. I’m not excusing Eli, but I’m explaining. His accuracy on short passes that doesn’t allow for the balls to be caught in stride is an issue. His lack of mobility is making matters worse but at the same time he is being done no favours by his protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said: Not enough. We could have told them Solder was slightly above average, but they decided to give him...I dunno...Munoz money or whatever. It is still slightly neglectful, how they've resourced it. But here’s the thing, yes it’s an overpay. Thats Free Agency for you. Solders play has been fine. You expect better than fine from what he was given but he still a huge upgrade from what we had prior. We spent a 2nd rounder on Hernandez. Our starting Center was doing pretty well got injured. Now the right side we got Onameh who has been bad and we had to replace Flowers with Wheeler who is just not a starting tackle. He’s limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 9 hours ago, Kip Smithers said: It is misleading. I watched all those said plays where he had time and very very few of them were they of him in a clean pocket. They’re explanations, not excuses. People like to conflate the two and act like football is not a team sport. And like how you just rationalise this as SOME bad plays from teammates as if it’s just SOME bad plays and acting as if those bad plays for what he is aren’t a great hindrance to him. You say every QB is gonna deal with bad o-line play, receiving issues, lack of running game. Yes true maybe a two or so in a season but not for 3 seasons straight. You act like this situation is par for the course and it’s common place around the league, no it isn’t. It really isn’t. This line is horrible, not just bad. Football is a team game and we love to act like blame cannot be apportioned. I’m not excusing Eli, but I’m explaining. His accuracy on short passes that doesn’t allow for the balls to be caught in stride is an issue. His lack of mobility is making matters worse but at the same time he is being done no favours by his protection. Eli still wouldn't be playing that well because he's not that accurate when throwing to open receivers even when he has a clean pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 10 hours ago, Kip Smithers said: Solders play has been fine. Definitely a big upgrade, but not fine IMO. He gets beat too often, especially if you factor in his pay (which I realize you acknowledged). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 13 hours ago, Kip Smithers said: But here’s the thing, yes it’s an overpay. Thats Free Agency for you. Solders play has been fine. Thought you said it had been average? Maybe they're the same thing. 13 hours ago, Kip Smithers said: You expect better than fine from what he was given but he still a huge upgrade from what we had prior. We spent a 2nd rounder on Hernandez. Our starting Center was doing pretty well got injured. Now the right side we got Onameh who has been bad and we had to replace Flowers with Wheeler who is just not a starting tackle. He’s limited. Quite. So we are in agreement, it is under-resourced and not good enough. Bringing me back to my original point that I'd be looking to flood it with talent, given how long it has been an Achilles heel of sorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 4 hours ago, PapaShogun said: Eli still wouldn't be playing that well because he's not that accurate when throwing to open receivers even when he has a clean pocket. I’ve seen Eli when he has time be accurate. Saw it vs Houston. Saw it some vs Carolina too. When he’s not protected it affects his rhythm, he gets flustered and everything goes down hill. It’s really hard for a QB (and people seem to think it’s easy) to keep getting pressured and then when he does have time you expect him to be pinpoint accurate. Not easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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