When VJ gets fired

[AKRNA]

3 hours ago, bMiller031 said:

Not to mention the prime NCAAF spots better, here are the spots in the NFL alone. 

 

Jobs that are indisputably better jobs than the Broncos HG gig right now: KC, LAC, OAK, PIT, CLE, HOU, TEN, IND, JAX, PHI, NYG, LAR, SEA, ARI, SF, CHI, MIN, GB, NO, CAR, ATL

 

Jobs that are probably better (or comparable): DAL, BAL, CIN, NE, DET

 

Jobs that are worse: WAS, BUF, MIA, TB

I've got to disagree. Just one example is Chicago. Talk about "win now". Cap wise they're all in for this year. Next year they're on the hook for $172 mil for 36 players and the following year, $150 mil for 25 players. All; that and their QB is still on his rookie contract. Just trying to field a team there will be tough.

Thats just one example.

So, look at Denver. 1st, VJ is going to be an easy act to follow. Also, given his performance he'll still get two full years, probably more than he deserves but a good message to the next candidate.

2nd, we've only got 1 more year of severe cap hell with $138mil next year for 33 guys. Starts getting better after that. 3rd, we've got a great draft class of solid contributors to build on, one more good draft and we can be right back in contention. 4th, we've got a great history of success and it is a premier destination. 

As far as Elway, he's no better or worse than other GM's as far as control. It's the nature of the beast. Thats not really a negative. 

Really, the only real negative I see is the ownership situation but nothing will cure that outside of time.

Oh yeah, a couple more points. Those frachises you listed as better destinations don't have openings. Those jobs aren't available and seriously, if they were would you want to be the guy that follows Reid, Payton, et al.?

Also, quite a few of those teams have similar cap issues as the Bears.

All things considered I think Denver would be a top destination for any coach.

 

 

[bMiller031]

7 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

I've got to disagree. Just one example is Chicago. Talk about "win now". Cap wise they're all in for this year. Next year they're on the hook for $172 mil for 36 players and the following year, $150 mil for 25 players. All; that and their QB is still on his rookie contract. Just trying to field a team there will be tough.

Thats just one example.

So, look at Denver. 1st, VJ is going to be an easy act to follow. Also, given his performance he'll still get two full years, probably more than he deserves but a good message to the next candidate.

2nd, we've only got 1 more year of severe cap hell with $138mil next year for 33 guys. Starts getting better after that. 3rd, we've got a great draft class of solid contributors to build on, one more good draft and we can be right back in contention. 4th, we've got a great history of success and it is a premier destination. 

As far as Elway, he's no better or worse than other GM's as far as control. It's the nature of the beast. Thats not really a negative. 

Really, the only real negative I see is the ownership situation but nothing will cure that outside of time.

Oh yeah, a couple more points. Those frachises you listed as better destinations don't have openings. Those jobs aren't available and seriously, if they were would you want to be the guy that follows Reid, Payton, et al.?

Also, quite a few of those teams have similar cap issues as the Bears.

All things considered I think Denver would be a top destination for any coach.

 

 

I think you’re over-estimating the significance of the coaching predasessor and under-estimating the significance of having a long-term answer at QB.

 

Not only do we not have an answer at QB, or the options this off-season in FA, or the money to chase said FA anyway, or a premier QB option in the draft, or the draft capital to draft him anyway....but, well, yeah...

[AKRNA]

20 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

I think you’re over-estimating the significance of the coaching predasessor and under-estimating the significance of having a long-term answer at QB.

 

Not only do we not have an answer at QB, or the options this off-season in FA, or the money to chase said FA anyway, or a premier QB option in the draft, or the draft capital to draft him anyway....but, well, yeah...

The "long term" answer at QB is a dilemma for every team, not just us. So far no team has been SB successful after re-upping their rookie QB's salaries. Seattle resigned Wilson for a fortune and have been only borderline competitors since. Same with Baltimore and Flacco. 

Philly won last year with Foles. What'll happen to KC when they resign Mahomes? Cleveland has a 4 year window to win. After that FA will force them to either decimate their roster or let guys like Garret, peppers, Ward go to keep Mayfield. Personally, I think the days of "Franchise QB's" are coming to a close. Keep the QB and field a mediocre roster or keep a kick-*** roster and gamble on QB seems to be the choice.

IMO the QB market will start to get flooded with good NFL journeymen. If you can draft one, great! You've got a 5 year window. Just realize unless he's willing to take a serious home town discount after his rookie contract expires you can't maintain a good roster and high priced QB at the same time. 

[bMiller031]

29 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

The "long term" answer at QB is a dilemma for every team, not just us. So far no team has been SB successful after re-upping their rookie QB's salaries. Seattle resigned Wilson for a fortune and have been only borderline competitors since. Same with Baltimore and Flacco. 

Philly won last year with Foles. What'll happen to KC when they resign Mahomes? Cleveland has a 4 year window to win. After that FA will force them to either decimate their roster or let guys like Garret, peppers, Ward go to keep Mayfield. Personally, I think the days of "Franchise QB's" are coming to a close. Keep the QB and field a mediocre roster or keep a kick-*** roster and gamble on QB seems to be the choice.

IMO the QB market will start to get flooded with good NFL journeymen. If you can draft one, great! You've got a 5 year window. Just realize unless he's willing to take a serious home town discount after his rookie contract expires you can't maintain a good roster and high priced QB at the same time. 

But that's a different argument - and for what it's worth, I agree with you.

My point was that incoming coaches place a premium value on the QB position - because poor QB play is a death sentence for coaches. 

Denver's QB situation is about as bad as it gets. An overpaid aging journeyman, no young prospects on the roster, a weak upcoming QB FA class, not a ton of cap space anyway, an early/middle-of-the-road draft pick in a QB weak draft, and a roster promising enough to insure that we're not in prime QB selection territory any time soon. That matters to coaches. 

To your point, after a good draft and some nice picks in the next one, I'm actually somewhat optimistic about our roster moving forward - but I'm not optimistic about our appeal to potential coaches around the league. 

[germ-x]

Denver will be able to get almost anyone they want as an HC.  Obviously Denver isn’t an ideal location, but no HC job is or they wouldn’t be looking for an HC.  Denver has plenty to work with talent wise to make it as prime a destination as any.

[AKRNA]

2 hours ago, bMiller031 said:

But that's a different argument - and for what it's worth, I agree with you.

My point was that incoming coaches place a premium value on the QB position - because poor QB play is a death sentence for coaches. 

Denver's QB situation is about as bad as it gets. An overpaid aging journeyman, no young prospects on the roster, a weak upcoming QB FA class, not a ton of cap space anyway, an early/middle-of-the-road draft pick in a QB weak draft, and a roster promising enough to insure that we're not in prime QB selection territory any time soon. That matters to coaches. 

To your point, after a good draft and some nice picks in the next one, I'm actually somewhat optimistic about our roster moving forward - but I'm not optimistic about our appeal to potential coaches around the league. 

I see your point but there's a flip side to that coin. No incoming coach would be tied to Keenum outside next year. He'll get a pass and two draft classes and FA to find his replacement.

I think most will have to do with Elway. As long as he mentions rebuilding or reloading (semantics) he can give a new coach some breathing room. Realistic expectations, rather than the "win now and forever" mantra would make this destination much more desirable.

On another note, just took a look at the Titans situation at QB relative to the cap. Thats a dreadful situation. They exercised the 5th year option on Mariotta for $20 mil next year. In 2020 they already have 46 players under contract for $217 million bucks, but no QB, most of the OL gone and  Mariotta's a FA. 

Yuck!

 

[germ-x]

All this talk is moot.  These guys take the jobs they get offered, like almost any other profession.

Sure, there’s a few college coaches that won’t leave if it isn’t a very good situation in terms of what they want to do simply because they’d be stupid to move.  But overall, in terms of NFL coordinators or fired HCs, Denver will be as a good a destination as any.  Further, NFL HC jobs don’t typically go into bidding wars, NFL HC candidates aren’t sitting there picking between which team they want.  It’s cut and dry.  It isn’t like the FA market, where they have multiple offers and get to sit and pick what works best.

Most of these candidates get 1 offer and they choose to take it or leave it.  99% of the time they take it.

Don’t over complicate this.  

[AKRNA]

7 minutes ago, germ-x said:

All this talk is moot.  These guys take the jobs they get offered, like almost any other profession.

Sure, there’s a few college coaches that won’t leave if it isn’t a very good situation in terms of what they want to do simply because they’d be stupid to move.  But overall, in terms of NFL coordinators or fired HCs, Denver will be as a good a destination as any.  Further, NFL HC jobs don’t typically go into bidding wars, NFL HC candidates aren’t sitting there picking between which team they want.  It’s cut and dry.  It isn’t like the FA market, where they have multiple offers and get to sit and pick what works best.

Most of these candidates get 1 offer and they choose to take it or leave it.  99% of the time they take it.

Don’t over complicate this.  

Oh, thats not in doubt germ-x, there wouldn't be one unemployed coach that wouldn't jump at it.

The discussion was solely about "desireability". I just think Denver would be high on any coaches list of best places to work.

 

[germ-x]

8 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

Oh, thats not in doubt germ-x, there wouldn't be one unemployed coach that wouldn't jump at it.

The discussion was solely about "desireability". I just think Denver would be high on any coaches list of best places to work.

 

No doubt, the talk that Denver isn’t doesn’t make sense.

There are 32 HC jobs in the NFL, there are around 5 available on a year to year basis. It’s elite company to even be considered and even more elite to get selected.  These guys aren’t picky (unless you’re Josh McDaniels or a college HC making $5M+ a year with better job security).  

Denver will be able to get almost anyone they want and the roster/picks/Elway won’t matter.  HC candidates take interviews wherever they can get them and accept the job whenever it’s offered, again, 99% of the time. 

[Broncofan]

15 minutes ago, germ-x said:

No doubt, the talk that Denver isn’t doesn’t make sense.

There are 32 HC jobs in the NFL, there are around 5 available on a year to year basis. It’s elite company to even be considered and even more elite to get selected.  These guys aren’t picky (unless you’re Josh McDaniels or a college HC making $5M+ a year with better job security).  

Denver will be able to get almost anyone they want and the roster/picks/Elway won’t matter.  HC candidates take interviews wherever they can get them and accept the job whenever it’s offered, again, 99% of the time. 

To be fair to @bMiller031, though - those candidates were exactly what brought the scenario - people were talking Lincoln Riley or Dabo Sweeney.    If we are talking that range, then yeah, being picky matters, and we don't really match up with the top destinations.  

 

[bMiller031]

59 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

To be fair to @bMiller031, though - those candidates were exactly what brought the scenario - people were talking Lincoln Riley or Dabo Sweeney.    If we are talking that range, then yeah, being picky matters, and we don't really match up with the top destinations.  

 

Yeah the discussion escaped my initial point. I don’t disagree that coordinators and the overwhelming majority of college coaches would jump at the opportunity to be a HC in the NFL.

Luring away a Dabo, Riley, etc is an entirely different animal and one that all sober-minded Broncos fans can admit isn’t a realistic expectation with the condition of the organization currently. 

[germ-x]

Yeah it’s unlikely we get one of Lincoln or Dabo, they’re in great situations and would be stupid to leave.  Further, most of the coaches that have made that jump have failed.  The NFL is a completely different animal.  Lincoln Riley would be interesting, but I wouldn’t want Dabo.  He’s a rah rah guy and I think he’d flame out pretty quickly and become tiresome to be around by veteran NFL players.

[jsthomp2007]

In reality...Demarcus Ware makes the most sense. 

[jsthomp2007]

20 hours ago, bMiller031 said:

Not to mention the prime NCAAF spots better, here are the spots in the NFL alone. 

 

Jobs that are indisputably better jobs than the Broncos HG gig right now: KC, LAC, OAK, PIT, CLE, HOU, TEN, IND, JAX, PHI, NYG, LAR, SEA, ARI, SF, CHI, MIN, GB, NO, CAR, ATL

 

Jobs that are probably better (or comparable): DAL, BAL, CIN, NE, DET

 

Jobs that are worse: WAS, BUF, MIA, TB

Yeah...the only problem I see is that many of those HC jobs won't be available.  

[jsthomp2007]

I think the top organizations that most HCs would go to would be: San Francisco, Dallas, Chicago, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, New England, Denver, and New Jersey Giants.  And, I say this because I think these are marquee organizations that histories of success.  

 

Actually, the best coaching gig would have to be Pittsburgh....you get a certain level of security there as they aren't quick to fire you if you have a few bad years.