When VJ gets fired

[bMiller031]

28 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Interesting to think how Chad and Case are polar opposites - Case has everything you want from an intangible standpoint and Chad everything from a physical standpoint. 

On BF2010’s point, not only way Case evaluated on a team with ideal conditions but also one which played in a division that had the always-mediocre Lions, the Bears with a roomie HC and QB and the Packers without Aaron Rodgers.

Our FO did swing and miss on Case, I also said as much before the ink was dry,  but I also come back to the point I’ve made that they were hoping on a prayer that Case could at least somewhat be close to last year as they owed the vets a chance to be competitive. 

I will disagree that Case was the biggest mistake; hiring Vance instead of Kyle was a bigger one. I also think - and again this is nothing against Chubb who I think has a long and productive Bronco career and lives up to being a No. 5 overall pick - that passing on a QB at No. 5 was a big mistake. Whether or not Rosen/Allen pan out is almost beside the point, when you don’t have a franchise QB and have the No. 5 pick with 2-3 well-regraded QB prospects on the board, you don’t pass up that chance. 

As I’ve long maintained, this team is good enough to win 6 or 7 games, i.e. out of playoff contention by Thanksgiving, but not bad enough to get a top-5 pick where franchise QBs can be found. 

Totally agree. And the catch-22 is if Elway drafts as well this year as we hope he does (as he did last year) this team is destined to improve in 2019 by default.. even if only by a few wins -- essentially eliminating any chance of us landing in prime QB selection territory in the 2020 draft, which is the place we NEED to be. 

[AKRNA]

Lots of talk about should've, could've in regards to Rosen / Chubb. How 'bout Nelson / Chubb?

Nelson's been a bit sporadic, expected of a rookie IOL, but he's made PFF's team of the week twice at LG. When he learns the game he'll be pretty good, Wouldn't it be nice to have him in the lineup instead of Garcia.

[AkronsWitness]

1 hour ago, bMiller031 said:

Totally agree. And the catch-22 is if Elway drafts as well this year as we hope he does (as he did last year) this team is destined to improve in 2019 by default.. even if only by a few wins -- essentially eliminating any chance of us landing in prime QB selection territory in the 2020 draft, which is the place we NEED to be. 

Its not a hard formula, you just have to come to grips with your problem areas and make a real aggressive effort to fix them. Which for some reason Elway refuses to go 'all-in' on the QB problem and drafts leftovers or patchwork veterans.

IMO they pray Haskins comes out, take him top 5-10 and then redshirt him behind Keenum for next year or until Keenum fails in 2019. Use the other high draft picks/FA to really really attach the OL and CB.

My biggest fear is wasting Von Miller/Chris Harris last elite years because they are too busy screwing around trying to find a competent QB. Get it done. 

[bMiller031]

15 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Its not a hard formula, you just have to come to grips with your problem areas and make a real aggressive effort to fix them. Which for some reason Elway refuses to go 'all-in' on the QB problem and drafts leftovers or patchwork veterans.

IMO they pray Haskins comes out, take him top 5-10 and then redshirt him behind Keenum for next year or until Keenum fails in 2019. Use the other high draft picks/FA to really really attach the OL and CB.

My biggest fear is wasting Von Miller/Chris Harris last elite years because they are too busy screwing around trying to find a competent QB. Get it done. 

Haskins is WAY too raw to go top 10

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

My biggest fear is wasting Von Miller/Chris Harris last elite years because they are too busy screwing around trying to find a competent QB. Get it done. 

They should have got it done last offseason w/ Kirk. Even if it meant making some hard cuts.

Case cap hit of 15M. Kirk cap hit of 24M.

Dont resign Todd Davis at his cap hit of 4M, dont sign Trumaine Brock at 3.5M and abracadabra, we are closing the gap between Case and Kirk without making any significant changes to the teams talent.

We had two chances to get a legitimate franchise QB last offseason, one was Kirk Cousins and the other was draft pick 1.05. We never see talents like Kirk hit the market, especially at his relatively young age, and we never see Denver drafting top 5, much less in a QB strong draft. We had TWO good options and didnt take either.

We can keep telling ourselves that the lack of a QB isnt the main issue, or that spending nearly 30M per season on Cousins would mean neglecting other parts of the team, blah, blah, blah. Truth is the fanbase is starting to lose interest based on three years of poor QB play. People are skipping games. That doesnt EVER happen in Denver.

Elway needs to be held accountable for failing to take option 1) Kirk or option 2) QB 1.05. Its going to set this franchise back years. When we are bad enough to draft top 3-5 and get a QB, it will be the twilight of the Super Bowl defensive guys careers. And regarding option 1, a QB like Kirk isnt hitting the market again anytime soon.

This team would be infinatley more watchable with Kirk or Rosen at QB. Elway dropped the ball, again, on the QB situation and gave us another year of near unwatchable offensive football.

[AkronsWitness]

14 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

Haskins is WAY too raw to go top 10

Hes not that raw. He extremely polished as a passer who probably throws with the best accuracy, anticipation and ball placement of anybody in next years draft. His problem is nuances to the game like sliding footwork in the pocket when pressure comes and read progression --- which can be coached. That is why I suggest to grab him and let him learn and grow until the wheels fall off Keenum next year. He actually reminds me of Goffs strengths/weaknesses coming out.

If your looking for a prototype QB with all of the size and arm talent (which Elways obviously loves) then Haskins is his guy as long as he is in no rush to throw him into the fire before he receives a little bit of NFL coaching. This is also assuming Herbert is gone to the NYG at #1.

[BroncoBruin]

Since this seems to be the default future "coaching search" thread, here are my thoughts:

I bought into the need for a locker room leader/personality manager thing for a minute with Vance. The Mike Tomlin parallels had me intrigued enough to give him a chance. I'm done with the leader of men stuff. Get me someone who has shown he's good at something that translates to on-field success. Since the league continues to hire more and more offensive coaches, the pool of pure OCs to choose from is pretty shallow at this point. Honestly, Musgrave is probably one of the better options teams can find, and he's pretty damn unremarkable. For these reasons, Lincoln Riley is the guy I've been circling for a while. He'd be expensive to lure away and the track record of college coaches is scary, but football at all levels is starting to really blend together, so I don't think the differences are quite as pronounced as they used to be and I think the adjustment would be easier than ever before. Air Raid and RPO have transitioned into offenses all over the NFL, and Riley is not just Four Verts'ing teams to death, his priority has always been running the ball. Of the Leach disciples, he's not only the smartest guy at the college level but also probably has the best chance to translate concepts to the NFL level. 

I was really intrigued by LaFleur because of his work under both Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVay, but his brief tenure with the Titans has been a disaster so far. Hard to see him making a case to take that next step. 

[germ-x]

7 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

I agree with all of this. Granted, there are times where our OL have been beat so quick that there isn't a QB in the world that could make the play work, but for the most part I do agree the biggest issue is the QB. If your QB is good pre-snap and knows where to go with the Football as a result, then magically the OL looks better. If your QB can slide well in the pocket then magically the OL looks better. If your QB can make plays with his feet then magically the OL looks better. I would argue that Case is not better than 6/10 at all of these things.

I've no clue who is responsible (whether it be Musgrave, Keenum or Paradis) but someone should be fired/benched for the fact we, on AT LEAST 10 occasions, decided to double team Michael Brockers or Suh over Aaron Donald in the Rams game. I can't describe just how much Donald was wrecking the game every time we left him 1v1, yet for some reason we continued to do so.

Listen, I like Michael Brockers. He's a very good player but he isn't in the same world as Aaron Donald. By the 2nd time Donald had wrecked the play, why didn't we adjust our protections to just say, "we aren't going to have Aaron Donald wreck this play". If Suh makes the play, fine. If Brockers makes the play, fine. Instead, we just displayed the Coaching/leadership ineptitude we have all year and let Donald go against Max effin Garcia 1v1 for like 5 dropbacks in a row. Unreal.

/rantover

My rant would be on Denver’s inability to hit 5-6 yard crossing route, ever.  NFL teams are living off this play and Denver literally never gets it.  Every game I’ve watched both teams hit that play at least a couple times a game for a big 1st down or big chunk yards.  Every team Denver plays hits this play multiple times in a game for a TD, big 1st down, or chunk yards.  It’s a staple for every team in the league and Denver can’t make it work...ever.

[AKRNA]

2 hours ago, germ-x said:

My rant would be on Denver’s inability to hit 5-6 yard crossing route, ever.  NFL teams are living off this play and Denver literally never gets it.  Every game I’ve watched both teams hit that play at least a couple times a game for a big 1st down or big chunk yards.  Every team Denver plays hits this play multiple times in a game for a TD, big 1st down, or chunk yards.  It’s a staple for every team in the league and Denver can’t make it work...ever.

Where's Rod Smith and his 7 yard slant when you need him.

[lomaxgrUK]

7 hours ago, AKRNA said:

Where's Rod Smith and his 7 yard slant when you need him.

I just started watching the All 22 from the KC game, and our first pass attempt is  Case trying to hit the easiest quick slant to DT you will ever see. He throws it a full yard behind him, dropped, incomplete.

This team, specifically this QB, are not good enough to miss open throws. Sometimes I do feel for Vance in that players have to take ownership when they are put in the right spots but just don't execute.

[jsthomp2007]

15 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Hes not that raw. He extremely polished as a passer who probably throws with the best accuracy, anticipation and ball placement of anybody in next years draft. His problem is nuances to the game like sliding footwork in the pocket when pressure comes and read progression --- which can be coached. That is why I suggest to grab him and let him learn and grow until the wheels fall off Keenum next year. He actually reminds me of Goffs strengths/weaknesses coming out.

If your looking for a prototype QB with all of the size and arm talent (which Elways obviously loves) then Haskins is his guy as long as he is in no rush to throw him into the fire before he receives a little bit of NFL coaching. This is also assuming Herbert is gone to the NYG at #1.

You have me at 71% pass completion rate. 

[bMiller031]

On 10/31/2018 at 2:09 PM, AkronsWitness said:

IMO they pray Haskins comes out, take him top 5-10 and then redshirt him behind Keenum for next year or until Keenum fails in 2019.

On 10/31/2018 at 2:36 PM, AkronsWitness said:

Hes not that raw. He extremely polished as a passer who probably throws with the best accuracy, anticipation and ball placement of anybody in next years draft.

 

I don't think this ages well in May. 

[broncofan48]

Sounds like John harbaugh is on the hot seat, he’s another potential HC candidate I could get behind 

[Broncofan]

2 hours ago, broncofan48 said:

Sounds like John harbaugh is on the hot seat, he’s another potential HC candidate I could get behind 

Either Harbaugh would be a strong get - the Q would be if they are willing to be a clear 2nd behind Elway in terms of roster decision-making.  The GM should get the final say, but Elway's level of control certainly made DEN less attractive to Shanahan.    

While we need a new O-mind to help change the process that Elway/Kubiak use to evaluate QB, the more important element is getting a good HC mind - but really strong candidates aren't going to want to come to a struggling DEN org if they don't feel they have input on how to change the personnel to succeed.   I do hope Elway's willingness to embrace new ideas and input on the 2018 draft, and the success encountered there, convinces him that the new HC (or OC that comes with the HC) gets more input on O personnel, and no good O-minded guy is going to dislike Sutton/Hamilton/Sanders or Lindsay (they may not want a 2-down hammer in Freeman, but he's so cheap, they won't care right away) - our WR's and RB's are set, so really talking TE & QB's.   

[AnAngryAmerican]

10 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Either Harbaugh would be a strong get - the Q would be if they are willing to be a clear 2nd behind Elway in terms of roster decision-making.  The GM should get the final say, but Elway's level of control certainly made DEN less attractive to Shanahan.    

In the case of John Harbaugh, I don't think it would be that big of a change for him as Ozzie Newsome hasn't exactly been some limp-wristed GM and the two have seemed to work well together. Jim might be a different story as he had an awful lot of control at Stanford, in San Fran and now at Michigan.