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When VJ gets fired


jsthomp2007

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2 minutes ago, 1234567 said:

Completely agree about the 2015 defense part. I guess my main knock on Case is that there have been several instances where he's made crucial mistakes that cost us a chance at winning. No doubt, if we had 2015's defense, Keenum's play would be somewhat of a moot point, and yeah we'd be extremely undefeated. But since we don't, it's a little more important to have a QB who performs and doesn't turn the ball over. Defensive issues aside, I think a guy could just as easily say with a top 10 QB this team is at least 6-2.

1st KC game and to a lesser extent the Rams game probably could've been won with a good QB.  Jets still a loss, D played awful there.  But yeah Keenum isn't the only problem but he is in my mind the biggest one right now

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4 minutes ago, 1234567 said:

Completely agree about the 2015 defense part. I guess my main knock on Case is that there have been several instances where he's made crucial mistakes that cost us a chance at winning. No doubt, if we had 2015's defense, Keenum's play would be somewhat of a moot point, and yeah we'd be extremely undefeated. But since we don't, it's a little more important to have a QB who performs and doesn't turn the ball over. Defensive issues aside, I think a guy could just as easily say with a top 10 QB this team is at least 6-2.

i mean, it is one thing to throw INTs...it's going to happen...Keenum just throws them at the worst time...and in the redzone.

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Just now, jsthomp2007 said:

i mean, it is one thing to throw INTs...it's going to happen...Keenum just throws them at the worst time...and in the redzone.

Dude, it's crazy. I mean yeah, ALL interceptions are costly. But if you considered *where* we were are on the field when he threw them and translated those into what would have likely been touchdowns and field goals, I bet the shear amount of points lost by his picks would be astonishing. 

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21 hours ago, Broncofan said:

I don't know enough on Peterson...but a big NO THANKS on Jim Bob Cooter.  He's literally been a huge reason why that O hasn't been moving forward for the longest time.  I mean, they are still using Legarrette Blount over Kerryon Johnson right now.   Their GM Quinn is on the right track drafting gems like Golladay, Kerryon Johnson, and getting Taylor Decker and Frank Ragnow to bolster that OL...but no way on JBC.  

I do fully support the idea of an O-minded HC - for the main reason that they would have major input on our next QB.   It can't be the status quo with Elway/Kubiak alone making that call.

I had a list of 5, but had to a Jim Bob, because I like to write and say his name.  You got me on that one.  LOL

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22 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

If Lincoln Riley makes the jump, I have a really hard time seeing him go anywhere but Cleveland.

Honestly, as much as I would like a young, o-minded maverick, if a guy like Jim Harbaugh is avaliable you go and get him. This team needs to hit on their new coach, we cant afford two inexperienced flame outs, and Jim is a guaranteed hit. He is a top tier coach who demands respect in the locker room but is also popular with his team. He is both motivational and a decent X/O's guy. The idea that we are going to copycat McVay is nuts. Its like when we went with Henderson/McKenzie to copycay KC and Hill. Its not likely to happen twice. Just get Harbaugh and dont get cute. Thats my take anyways.

I agree with you on this Lincoln

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6 hours ago, champ11 said:

I'm a little worried about Kubiak being heavily involved in the front office decisions, honestly. If he was involved in the Keenum signing...that's already a massive failure. And I think Kubiak is talented, and probably better than what we have in our current front office, but the game is changing. Not sure sticking with his offensive philosophies are going to bring us success.

It's still absolutely insane that Elway had Vance and Paxton Lynch in for interviews and thought "these are the guys to lead us to success after the Manning era." Doesn't inspire too much confidence for this next hire lol 

There were really no options in FA for a QB given the market and the huge tag on Cousins.  So I don't really put Kessum on him.  That said.  If you are correct that he is very involved, then you have to look at this draft class.  It was HUGE IMO.  These rookies are everywhere.  I think Kubs role in the future, which is a mystery, unlocks this whole thread we are rolling around in right now.

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4 minutes ago, BaldyBronco said:

There were really no options in FA for a QB given the market and the huge tag on Cousins.  So I don't really put Kessum on him.  That said.  If you are correct that he is very involved, then you have to look at this draft class.  It was HUGE IMO.  These rookies are everywhere.  I think Kubs role in the future, which is a mystery, unlocks this whole thread we are rolling around in right now.

Teddy B would have been a fun gamble, but I get it. Assumed that Kubiak was involved in bringing in Keenum because he had him in Houston. Agreed on this draft class, though, good point

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8 minutes ago, BaldyBronco said:

There were really no options in FA for a QB given the market and the huge tag on Cousins.  So I don't really put Kessum on him.  That said.  If you are correct that he is very involved, then you have to look at this draft class.  It was HUGE IMO.  These rookies are everywhere.  I think Kubs role in the future, which is a mystery, unlocks this whole thread we are rolling around in right now.

Kubiak gets some of the draft credit but he was also around for Elway’s big Day 1-2 whiffs in 2015-16 drafts.    

The noticeable change Elway admitted to was a focus on football skills and adding metrics based analysis as a component of draft ranking.  Instead of the shorts and t-shirts raw tools skill set Elway kept falling in love with (culminating in the disastrous 2017 class).   It showed.   Guys like Jewell and DeSean Hamilton light those boards up.   Elway also said he will incorporate more in future drafts.   All great signs.  They aren’t the end all and be all by themselves but they are powerful tools.  Good to see they are embracing them.  

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3 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Kubiak gets some of the draft credit but he was also around for Elway’s big Day 1-2 whiffs in 2015-16 drafts.    

The noticeable change Elway admitted to was a focus on football skills and adding metrics based analysis as a component of draft ranking.  Instead of the shorts and t-shirts raw tools skill set Elway kept falling in love with (culminating in the disastrous 2017 class).   It showed.   Guys like Jewell and DeSean Hamilton light those boards up.   Elway also said he will incorporate more in future drafts.   All great signs.  They aren’t the end all and be all by themselves but they are powerful tools.  Good to see they are embracing them.  

Now he just needs to find a QB and a HC along with continued draft success.  No big deal

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3 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Kubiak gets some of the draft credit but he was also around for Elway’s big Day 1-2 whiffs in 2015-16 drafts.    

The noticeable change Elway admitted to was a focus on football skills and adding metrics based analysis as a component of draft ranking.  Instead of the shorts and t-shirts raw tools skill set Elway kept falling in love with (culminating in the disastrous 2017 class).   It showed.   Guys like Jewell and DeSean Hamilton light those boards up.   Elway also said he will incorporate more in future drafts.   All great signs.  They aren’t the end all and be all by themselves but they are powerful tools.  Good to see they are embracing them.  

I am not football savvy enough to know how Jewell has looked this year in his playing time? Seems hard to evaluate LB's.

Hope Hamilton can get healthy after the bye so we can get a better look at him as the 3rd WR.

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5 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Kubiak gets some of the draft credit but he was also around for Elway’s big Day 1-2 whiffs in 2015-16 drafts.    

The noticeable change Elway admitted to was a focus on football skills and adding metrics based analysis as a component of draft ranking.  Instead of the shorts and t-shirts raw tools skill set Elway kept falling in love with (culminating in the disastrous 2017 class).   It showed.   Guys like Jewell and DeSean Hamilton light those boards up.   Elway also said he will incorporate more in future drafts.   All great signs.  They aren’t the end all and be all by themselves but they are powerful tools.  Good to see they are embracing them.  

Jewell was such a good pick.  And yes.  100% love the black box approach.  Kub was the coach back then and had a very different set of responsibilites.  But I think both are probably right to some degree.  We are off topic a bit, but the only other thing I will add to the draft, is TAKING RISKS when the board lights up.

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3 minutes ago, Royal_VT said:

I am not football savvy enough to know how Jewell has looked this year in his playing time? Seems hard to evaluate LB's.

Hope Hamilton can get healthy after the bye so we can get a better look at him as the 3rd WR.

Hamilton and Patrick may have been the last straw for DT here.  I will stop talking payers now on this thread so I don't get us in trouble.  LOL

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8 hours ago, 1234567 said:

Completely agree about the 2015 defense part. I guess my main knock on Case is that there have been several instances where he's made crucial mistakes that cost us a chance at winning. No doubt, if we had 2015's defense, Keenum's play would be somewhat of a moot point, and yeah we'd be extremely undefeated. But since we don't, it's a little more important to have a QB who performs and doesn't turn the ball over. Defensive issues aside, I think a guy could just as easily say with a top 10 QB this team is at least 6-2.

The Broncos issue is the same issue as its always been since Manning left (and even with Manning)--they absolutely refuse to go 'all in' at addressing the offensive line and try to patchwork the QB position without going to really get their guy in the draft. The OL and QB have received the most half-arsed effort for years and they continue to focus on everywhere else but there and it continues to be the sole reason they have been losing since 2015.

Whenever the FO wants to get serious about bringing in proven help or blue chip prospects in the draft to build a good offensive line and follow that up with actually going after one of the elite QB prospects in the drafts---nothing else matters. They will continue to lose.

The defense has held the Cheifs their 2 lowest point totals of the year and the Rams to their lowest point total of the year. They are fine. The offense has playmakers. They need to finally take the remaining cap room and high round draft picks and attack OL and QB next offseason.

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1 minute ago, AkronsWitness said:

The Broncos issue is the same issue as its always been since Manning left (and even with Manning)--they absolutely refuse to go 'all in' at addressing the offensive line and try to patchwork the QB position without going to really get their guy in the draft. The OL and QB have received the most half-arsed effort for years and they continue to focus on everywhere else but there and it continues to be the sole reason they have been losing since 2015.

Whenever the FO wants to get serious about bringing in proven help or blue chip prospects in the draft to build a good offensive line and follow that up with actually going after one of the elite QB prospects in the drafts---nothing else matters. They will continue to lose.

I’d disagree on the OL.  Denver’s spent the 20th pick on an OL.  Went out and signed Leary, traded for Veldheer, and already had Paradis on the roster.

NFL OLs just suck.  Even the good ones suck compared to the 80s or 90s.  I’m not saying just throw any body out there.

Just as an example, as of Week 6 PFF had Denver’s OL graded as the 4th best unit in the NFL.  That’s even with crap at QB.  Defensive front 7 talent is just miles ahead of OL talent.  I attribute much of it to the college spread that doesn’t ask OLs to block for very long and leads NCAA teams to put their best talent on the defensive side of the ball to combat it.

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