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rickyt31

By rickyt31
in This aint sports talk!

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Shockwave

Shockwave

Posted
Posted
On 5/18/2021 at 1:05 PM, incognito_man said:

Thread title should be changed to "Stock Speculation" instead of "Investing" 

 

Is there really a difference? Whether your intention is to turn a profit short term or long term either way you take on risk the moment you buy an equity. The moment you put capital into a position you've "invested". The question becomes do you sell intra day (day trade), a few weeks from now (swing trade), or hold for more then a year? You speculate when you buy and hold just as much as anyone does when they day trade. 

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UncleAdamz

UncleAdamz

Posted
Posted

Happy to report that after one year of investing I'm up about 70%. I was up 200% at one point this January but the dip really got me. Looking forward to improving upon that this coming year. Goal of 100% gain from where I am for the next 12 months. I believe that ASTS and PERI should easily accomplish this.

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MWil23

MWil23

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Shockwave said:

Is there really a difference? Whether your intention is to turn a profit short term or long term either way you take on risk the moment you buy an equity. The moment you put capital into a position you've "invested". The question becomes do you sell intra day (day trade), a few weeks from now (swing trade), or hold for more then a year? You speculate when you buy and hold just as much as anyone does when they day trade. 

Indexed mutual funds have shown to get a 7-11% on average bump, as opposed to speculation going back to the 1920s. Sure, FLUCTUATION happens year to year, but considering the volatility of some stocks as opposed to indexed funds, bonds, and CD's...yes, huge difference.

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Shockwave

Shockwave

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Indexed mutual funds have shown to get a 7-11% on average bump, as opposed to speculation going back to the 1920s. Sure, FLUCTUATION happens year to year, but considering the volatility of some stocks as opposed to indexed funds, bonds, and CD's...yes, huge difference.

Difference being Indexed Mutual Funds, and low expense ETF's are highly unlikely to ever go to $0 like a single equity can. So it's safer to use a drip process and dollar cost average into them. But everytime you add you're still speculating that the Index will eventually be higher then your buy price even if it takes a decade. If the market tanks 90% tomorrow as however unlikely that is and the mutual fund liquidates (which we've seen happen) the SIPC protection does not cover your losses.

In terms of buying single equities however whether you "invest" in Apple or intend to trade it the moment you buy shares you're speculating the market has undervalued them and they will eventually be higher.

 

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MWil23

MWil23

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Posted
20 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

Difference being Indexed Mutual Funds, and low expense ETF's are highly unlikely to ever go to $0 like a single equity can. So it's safer to use a drip process and dollar cost average into them. But everytime you add you're still speculating that the Index will eventually be higher then your buy price even if it takes a decade. If the market tanks 90% tomorrow as however unlikely that is and the mutual fund liquidates (which we've seen happen) the SIPC protection does not cover your losses.

In terms of buying single equities however whether you "invest" in Apple or intend to trade it the moment you buy shares you're speculating the market has undervalued them and they will eventually be higher.

 

Correct, but by definition, speculation is "an assumption of UNUSUAL business risk in hopes of obtaining commensurate gain".

This is what most should be referring to in terms of speculation. There's a LOT MORE inherent risk in the above stocks/singular equities and the hopes of getting rich quick(er) ala the "commensurate gain" portion are by nature speculation. :) 

(Miriam Webster for the definition for what it's worth)

No one gets into indexed mutual funds hoping to make a commensurate gain or is really taking much of an inherent risk, let alone an unusual one.

While the market could absolutely go into the toilet ala post 9/11 or even the recession, those who have kept their assets intact and stayed the course still did way above and beyond they would have by keeping them in the bank.

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ramssuperbowl99

ramssuperbowl99

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

Correct, but by definition, speculation is "an assumption of UNUSUAL business risk in hopes of obtaining commensurate gain".

This is what most should be referring to in terms of speculation. There's a LOT MORE inherent risk in the above stocks/singular equities and the hopes of getting rich quick(er) ala the "commensurate gain" portion are by nature speculation. :) 

(Miriam Webster for the definition for what it's worth)

No one gets into indexed mutual funds hoping to make a commensurate gain or is really taking much of an inherent risk, let alone an unusual one.

While the market could absolutely go into the toilet ala post 9/11 or even the recession, those who have kept their assets intact and stayed the course still did way above and beyond they would have by keeping them in the bank.

I think it's a mindset. 

Speculation/short term trades don't give time for the entity that was invested in, whether it's a company or whatever, to change. If I buy Apple today, Apple goes up, and I sell tomorrow, it's not because Apple announced something (probably). It's because more people happened to buy Apple, and I bought before they did. So my target here wasn't a company at all, I was targeting other investors in a zero sum game. To me, that's not really any different than walking into a casino and sitting down at a poker table with the dumbest looking group of people I can find. Fundamentally, I'm just betting that I'm better at poker or trading than they are.

Long term/investing gives the company time to change. Now, my target isn't the other people buying in. I hope they do (and at the end of the day, I will need them to), but my target is the company itself. Even if other people buy and other people sell, if over that time frame the company has been able to produce more value, that's going to get reflected in the price eventually. So I'm not betting against other people, I'm betting that over time what has happened will continue to.

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PARROTHEAD

PARROTHEAD

Posted
Posted

Grayscale Bitcoin trading around 7 bucks below the Bitcoin pricing for it. With her dropping I have to jump in on this while low. Theyre trying to become an ETF. Which there will be no discount, and even leading in to becoming an ETF might do away with it.

 

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