dtait93 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, TitanSS said: Blaming the supporting cast is just a poor excuse. Especially if you have to do it for four straight years. There isn't one other franchise QB in the NFL that can't score points or move the ball and they have to consistently blame everyone around him but him. If you need everyone around you to be an all star, then guess what? You're Andy Dalton. You're Alex Smith. Saying anything else at this point is just blind homerism. He played in 15 games last year and had under 190 yards passing in 5 of them. 33%. All stars? How about just putting some guys around him that can just catch a damn ball or run good and correct routes? Personally, I’ve never said he wasn’t Alex Smith or Andy Dalton. He could be for all I know. But guess what they’ve both had that Marcus hasn’t? Continuity, consistency, and weapons. Give him those 3 things and there’s no doubt in my mind he can be our franchise guy. We haven’t given him one of those things so how could he ever even be Andy Dalton? Edited October 15, 2018 by dtait93 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariota615TN Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 I’m going to eat my words with what I just said earlier. I just re-watched all of the sacks and now think that 9 of the 11 sacks were Mariota’s fault. There actually were guys open — yes they were only 3-4 yards past the line of scrimmage but they were still open. He was playing like he was scared, not confident AT ALL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragevsuall17 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 36 minutes ago, FutureIsWhite said: How is he not a bust? He was picked 2nd overall , has missed or left early from a 1/4 of games in his nfl career so far and the last year and a half he has thrown for more picks then touchdowns. Any other top 2 nfl pick would be considered a bust at this point if he wasn’t on our team. This is year 4 not year 2, and although all the mistakes aren’t his , he still doesn’t look good at all. Take away the eagles game and he’s scored 21 points the last 3 games . Dak who isn’t good at all has more points scored against the jags then Marcus does against jags, bills and ravens . To me, a bust is Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf.... heck, even Young. They don't have what it takes to make it in the league. Mariota does... From a stats/record angle, compare Mariota's first 4 years... against Brees' first 4/5... comparable stats. He's also still younger than Brees was at that point... He's not where we need him to be... there's obviously issues there ... no one's denying that. 4 out of his 5 games, he's failed to throw for 130 yards... more picks than TDs... a hand that may never regain full feeling... etc... But there's more to it than that.. There's been some huge drops... at least 3 that would have been TDs had the receiver not have the ball bounce of their hands or chest. One of our best receiving options is Lewis... and yet we can't design a few plays to get him out in the open... ala Chris Thompson, Duke Johnson, James White... In another thread we were talking about a trade with the Giants... and give Mariota OBJ, Barkley, Sheperd, and Engram and that's the best collection of talent he's had... they'd be a position or 2 on the OLine from being a top notch option. Look at what Mariota did when he had a healthy trio (Matthews, Walker, Murray)... So yes, while Mariota certainly has to shoulder a good amount of the blame... he's not alone... JRob, LaFleur, the WRs... and now the Oline have their own blame they must be accountable for. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragevsuall17 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mariota615TN said: I’m going to eat my words with what I just said earlier. I just re-watched all of the sacks and now think that 9 of the 11 sacks were Mariota’s fault. There actually were guys open — yes they were only 3-4 yards past the line of scrimmage but they were still open. He was playing like he was scared, not confident AT ALL. I said this yesterday... he doesn't trust the receivers... may not trust the offense... and certainly doesn't trust himself. A lot of that's on Vrabel and LaFleur and JRob... but Mariota should share in a lot of it. I've used the Brees comparison with Mariota... and unfortunately he may need to leave to reach his potential like Brees did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSS Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 23 minutes ago, dtait93 said: All stars? How about just putting some guys around him that can just catch a damn ball or run good and correct routes? Personally, I’ve never said he wasn’t Alex Smith or Andy Dalton. He could be for all I know. But guess what they’ve both had that Marcus hasn’t? Continuity, consistency, and weapons. Give him those 3 things and there’s no doubt in my mind he can be our franchise guy. We haven’t given him one of those things so how could he ever even be Andy Dalton? We have no reason to believe he will ever be anything different than what he is. 4 years into the NFL there is no more "he can be" or "he has the potential". 4 years into the NFL you are what you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSS Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 17 minutes ago, Mariota615TN said: I’m going to eat my words with what I just said earlier. I just re-watched all of the sacks and now think that 9 of the 11 sacks were Mariota’s fault. There actually were guys open — yes they were only 3-4 yards past the line of scrimmage but they were still open. He was playing like he was scared, not confident AT ALL. Yep. I saw about 3 highlights on FS1 just now and all 3 of them Mariota could have just sat where he was and thrown the ball. In all 3 he just randomly gets scared and takes off in a direction that 100% prevents his blockers from blocking. Yesterday was the worst game I have ever seen him play and the majority of it was on him. Hell he had 3 passes where he throws the ball to a WR about a second after the snap and it goes over the WRs head before he turns around. He was absolutely terrified and not even under pressure. IDC if he had Julio Jones, Randy Moss, and Calvin Johnson on his team yesterday we weren't doing anything the way he played. Abysmal QB play. We've wanted to talk about giving him playmakers? What about giving Dion Lewis or Corey Davis someone who can get them the ball instead of panicking in a clean pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureIsWhite Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share Posted October 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, TitanSS said: We have no reason to believe he will ever be anything different than what he is. 4 years into the NFL there is no more "he can be" or "he has the potential". 4 years into the NFL you are what you are. Agree.. A lot of the Marcus ‘s homers keep thinking he’s going to just turn into some franchise qb but like you said this is year 4. Not many QBs turn the corner year 5, and whoever keeps comparing Marcus to Brees has got to stop. It’s almost laughable . Mariota is not Brees, will never be Brees , and right now it’s an insult to Brees for even thinking it . And again im not trying to hate on anyone that think Mariota is our guy, heck I used to be that guy. But as hard as it is to admit it , Marcus will never win is a Super Bowl . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragevsuall17 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, TitanSS said: We have no reason to believe he will ever be anything different than what he is. 4 years into the NFL there is no more "he can be" or "he has the potential". 4 years into the NFL you are what you are. That is definitely the norm... but not always the case. Brees continued improving after he left SD. A. Smith is way more accomplished and complete than he was after SF. Rich Gannon, Trent Green... Rodgers, McNair, S Young are some other obvious big names... Unfortunately... all but 1 of those guys had to leave their first team to take the next step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 8 minutes ago, TitanSS said: We have no reason to believe he will ever be anything different than what he is. 4 years into the NFL there is no more "he can be" or "he has the potential". 4 years into the NFL you are what you are. I disagree. But only time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragevsuall17 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, FutureIsWhite said: Agree.. A lot of the Marcus ‘s homers keep thinking he’s going to just turn into some franchise qb but like you said this is year 4. Not many QBs turn the corner year 5, and whoever keeps comparing Marcus to Brees has got to stop. It’s almost laughable . Mariota is not Brees, will never be Brees , and right now it’s an insult to Brees for even thinking it . And again im not trying to hate on anyone that think Mariota is our guy, heck I used to be that guy. But as hard as it is to admit it , Marcus will never win is a Super Bowl . Reading comprehension would help you... Compare Mariota to Brees during his SD time. Very similar stats... Brees has never had imposing QB attributes. There was no 5th year option in the previous CBA, but they kept him the extra year with a franchise tag (eventhough they had already given up on him drafting Rivers). Hit the FA market without much fanfare... signed a modest QB contract.... Then boom... Mariota could boom or bust... but if you can't see the comparison at the 4 year mark in their respective careers, then you're just being blind. I do think, like Brees, it's going to take Mariota leaving here and signing with a team that will better coach him and utilize his talents for him to take that next step. He's just been too damaged here with the lack of coaching and talent... it may prevent him from ever taking that next step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSS Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 1 minute ago, ragevsuall17 said: That is definitely the norm... but not always the case. Brees continued improving after he left SD. A. Smith is way more accomplished and complete than he was after SF. Rich Gannon, Trent Green... Rodgers, McNair, S Young are some other obvious big names... Unfortunately... all but 1 of those guys had to leave their first team to take the next step. All of the older names are from a different era of football. With the massive change in the NFL to the passing league that it is today it is difficult to compare the two. The modern era ones, Brees, in his 4th year completed over 65% of his passes for 27 TDs and 7 INTs. 64.6%/24/15 the season after that, all with the Chargers. He really only had one poor season in his entire career and it was only 11 games and it was his second year as the starter. I don't feel like that is a fair comparison to Mariota. Smith is the one I agree with, but that's because I feel like that's what Mariota is. That's what Mariota has shown us. He can play well if the rest of his team is outplaying the opponent, or he can be abysmal when the team struggles. Also, if that's Aaron Rodgers I'm not sure what the comparison is? His first four years as a starter he threw 131 TDs and 37 INTs. He just sat for 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSS Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, ragevsuall17 said: Reading comprehension would help you... Compare Mariota to Brees during his SD time. Very similar stats... Brees has never had imposing QB attributes. There was no 5th year option in the previous CBA, but they kept him the extra year with a franchise tag (eventhough they had already given up on him drafting Rivers). Hit the FA market without much fanfare... signed a modest QB contract.... Then boom... Mariota could boom or bust... but if you can't see the comparison at the 4 year mark in their respective careers, then you're just being blind. I do think, like Brees, it's going to take Mariota leaving here and signing with a team that will better coach him and utilize his talents for him to take that next step. He's just been too damaged here with the lack of coaching and talent... it may prevent him from ever taking that next step. After Brees 2nd year as a starter in SD his struggles pretty much stopped. His final two years were much better than the last two years we've gotten from Mariota. I feel like outside of one 11 game season, his second as a starter, there is absolutely no comparison. Edited October 15, 2018 by TitanSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingTitan Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Now in the defense of Marcus column. Point me to the the WRs that we failed to develop and went elsewhere to be stars, during Marcus' time here. DGB. Wright. Eric Decker, Matthews? We have failed to give him WRs that other teams would clamor for. Luck came into the league with Wayne, Fleener and Hilton (year after drafted). Brees had weapons. Brady has weapons. ( They became weapons there and went elsewhere and produced) Manning has hall of fame weapons in Indy and all pro weapons in Denver. Vikings QBs have weapons. Ryan has weapons Dalton has weapons. Smith had weapons. Mahomes has weapons. Tannehill had/has weapons. Nobody wants our guys outside of Davis. Sharpe and Taylor are low budget signings at best if they become free agents. Let's be honest about that part too. Are we asking too much of Marcus. Make Daruis Jennings and Batson, Nick Williams. Harry Douglas and Luke Stocker all Stars or be labeled a terrible qb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSS Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) I'm done with the he doesn't have weapons argument. You can make that for a QB in year 1 and 2. By year three he needs to be moving the ball or he's Alex Smith, or worse. Andrew Luck in year 4 would kill for our offense today. Over the past two years he's had one of the best offensive lines in the NFL. There's his weapon. Demarco Murray, Delanie Walker, first round pick in Corey Davis. Derrick Henry, Dion Lewis. Franchise QBs make all of the guys around him better. Who has he made better? At some points you have to stop blaming the guys around him. Edited October 15, 2018 by TitanSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragevsuall17 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, TitanSS said: All of the older names are from a different era of football. With the massive change in the NFL to the passing league that it is today it is difficult to compare the two. The modern era ones, Brees, in his 4th year completed over 65% of his passes for 27 TDs and 7 INTs. 64.6%/24/15 the season after that, all with the Chargers. He really only had one poor season in his entire career and it was only 11 games and it was his second year as the starter. I don't feel like that is a fair comparison to Mariota. Smith is the one I agree with, but that's because I feel like that's what Mariota is. That's what Mariota has shown us. He can play well if the rest of his team is outplaying the opponent, or he can be abysmal when the team struggles. Also, if that's Aaron Rodgers I'm not sure what the comparison is? His first four years as a starter he threw 131 TDs and 37 INTs. He just sat for 3 years. YEah... it's hard to compare Rodgers... and even McNair... they sat and kept growing. At 24, I would hope MAriota can continue to grow. He showed potential early... was unlucky last year... but maybe he is too far gone...too broken from this franchise to succeed here or anywhere else. I'm not ready to throw in the towel... I don't want to do this again... He's got a year and a half before I completely give up on him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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