Marcus Mariota: Is it Time ??

[TitanSS]

7 hours ago, KingTitan said:

Stats!!!!!

😉😉

Not to be a turd in the punch bowl, but.........

Drew Brees' 3rd and 4th seasons as a starting QB:

51 TD
21 INT
31 GS
6,735 YDS

Marcus Mariota's 3rd and 4th seasons as a starting QB:

24 TD
23 INT
29 GS
5,760 YDS

I'm not going to calculate their ratings, but Brees would have been around 97ish to Mariota's 85ish. I know you were joking, but I see that guy on Twitter and he's not joking and there are probably a wide range of followers that see these statistics and take them as gospel. They will come away with the impression that Mariota has done fine because he's on the same pace as Brees, when the pace isn't a straight line, it's a curve, and it's not even really a comparison. 

Now to just piss everyone off.......

Ryan Tannehill's first 4 seasons as a starting QB:
87 TD
54 INT
64 GS
15,460 YDS

Ryan Tannehill's 3rd and 4th seasons as a starting QB:
51 TD
24 INT
32 GS
8,253 YDS

Using those same statistics, it's pretty clear we need to trade for Ryan Tannehill, because he's on pace to be better than Drew Brees. Ryan Tannehill is a great example of why statistics alone don't really tell much of a story in the NFL. Football doesn't capture enough details on a play-by-play basis, at least not in any data set accessible to regular fans, in order to form a decision based on statistics alone the way businesses do. 

Edited January 19, 2019 by TitanSS

[KingTitan]

28 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

Not to be a turd in the punch bowl, but.........

Drew Brees' 3rd and 4th seasons as a starting QB:

51 TD
21 INT
31 GS
6,735 YDS

Marcus Mariota's 3rd and 4th seasons as a starting QB:

24 TD
23 INT
29 GS
5,760 YDS

I'm not going to calculate their ratings, but Brees would have been around 97ish to Mariota's 85ish. I know you were joking, but I see that guy on Twitter and he's not joking and there are probably a wide range of followers that see these statistics and take them as gospel. They will come away with the impression that Mariota has done fine because he's on the same pace as Brees, when the pace isn't a straight line, it's a curve, and it's not even really a comparison. 

Now to just piss everyone off.......

Ryan Tannehill's first 4 seasons as a starting QB:
87 TD
54 INT
64 GS
15,460 YDS

Ryan Tannehill's 3rd and 4th seasons as a starting QB:
51 TD
24 INT
32 GS
8,253 YDS

Using those same statistics, it's pretty clear we need to trade for Ryan Tannehill, because he's on pace to be better than Drew Brees. Ryan Tannehill is a great example of why statistics alone don't really tell much of a story in the NFL. Football doesn't capture enough details on a play-by-play basis, at least not in any data set accessible to regular fans, in order to form a decision based on statistics alone the way businesses do. 

I agree stats don't tell the story. And these are a great example of how there is more to the story. 

Goes for those that use it as reason to validate or criticize. 

So many variables. 

[FutureIsWhite]

13 hours ago, ragevsuall17 said:

Thing is There are enough stats out there to support both sides of the argument. But when people lie about numbers or exaggerate them, then it seems like a personal attack. He misses time, of course... But he's failed to play 75%if the snaps once... His rookie year. He played over 90%of the snaps year 2 and 3... Before going back down to 78% this year. He's just short of playing in 85% of snaps in his career (and by rounding rules , he's closer to 90%than 75%). It's still not a good number, but no need to lie or exaggerate the number to try and prove a point. 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts

As a fan watching the game when I see Mariota get hurt  I’m not saying to myself “well atleast he played in 92 percent of today’s snaps”, I’m saying well crap he’s hurt again as you probably are as well.. When fans who say Mariota has missed time or has not played in 25 percent of time , there not  talking about  the snaps , there counting the games .. It doesn’t matter if Mariota gets hurt in the first quarter or last , it’s the fact that he’s not out there to finish a game 25 percent of the time . 

 

But I do agree that stats can be argued for both sides in regards to Mariota .. I’m not a fan of Mariota but it’s not because I don’t think he’s a good QB, In fact I think he has top 10 QB potential even after the last two sub par seasons . I just can’t get over the fact that he’s not out there to finish the game 4 times a year and as the most important position in sports that’s not a good thing .

[TitanRedd]

2 hours ago, FutureIsWhite said:

As a fan watching the game when I see Mariota get hurt  I’m not saying to myself “well atleast he played in 92 percent of today’s snaps”, I’m saying well crap he’s hurt again as you probably are as well.. When fans who say Mariota has missed time or has not played in 25 percent of time , there not  talking about  the snaps , there counting the games .. It doesn’t matter if Mariota gets hurt in the first quarter or last , it’s the fact that he’s not out there to finish a game 25 percent of the time . 

 

But I do agree that stats can be argued for both sides in regards to Mariota .. I’m not a fan of Mariota but it’s not because I don’t think he’s a good QB, In fact I think he has top 10 QB potential even after the last two sub par seasons . I just can’t get over the fact that he’s not out there to finish the game 4 times a year and as the most important position in sports that’s not a good thing .

Also remember Matthew Stafford was injury prone early on his career 

[KingTitan]

22 minutes ago, TitanRedd said:

Also remember Matthew Stafford was injury prone early on his career 

Stafford is a good example of a QB with stats but being irrelevant as far as a team. 

Which would we prefer? Yeah Matt puts up 4000 yard seasons routinely but gets about 6-7 wins a year. 

[TitanSlim]

1 hour ago, KingTitan said:

Stafford is a good example of a QB with stats but being irrelevant as far as a team. 

Which would we prefer? Yeah Matt puts up 4000 yard seasons routinely but gets about 6-7 wins a year. 

You have a guy like Stafford who puts up nice numbers but doesn't reflect on wins over his career. Then you have a guy like Kirk Cousins, who puts up nice numbers but doesn't perform well against high quality teams.

Then you have Mariota who doesn't have great numbers, but has delivered in crunch time throughout his career. He's shown he can duel with the best of them (Saints in 15, Packers in 16, Patriots this past season just to name a few) but has also been lackluster in far too many games in a lot of peoples eyes.

Factor in the legit injury concerns and him now having to play for another OC, and that's why this situation is so complicated. There's so many factors to consider.

Edited January 19, 2019 by TitanSlim

[KingTitan]

 Not directly related but since we talking about 4 year spans. 

[TitanLegend]

4 hours ago, KingTitan said:

 Not directly related but since we talking about 4 year spans. 

It's almost as if Mariota and Winston are playing in different eras than Brees and Ben.

[titans0021]

The injuries concern me far more than anything else with Marcus. He’s been dealt a pretty terrible hand. Bad wide receivers for pretty much his entire career. A never ending revolving door of offensive coordinators. A run game that has only been a real threat for about half a season in 16 and then to close last year.

I’m willing to excuse a lot. But the injuries. If you can’t count on him to be on the field, he’s just not someone you can commit to. A real argument can be made that he hasn’t been 100% since 2016 and obviously that can help explain the statistical drop. 

But I don’t know which side that argument is supposed to help.

 

[ShupacTakur]

4 hours ago, titans0021 said:

The injuries concern me far more than anything else with Marcus. He’s been dealt a pretty terrible hand. Bad wide receivers for pretty much his entire career. A never ending revolving door of offensive coordinators. A run game that has only been a real threat for about half a season in 16 and then to close last year.

I’m willing to excuse a lot. But the injuries. If you can’t count on him to be on the field, he’s just not someone you can commit to. A real argument can be made that he hasn’t been 100% since 2016 and obviously that can help explain the statistical drop. 

But I don’t know which side that argument is supposed to help.

 

At this point I’m fully expecting him to fizzle out next season and then revive his career elsewhere. I know that’s a highly pessimistic take, but I just don’t know. To me, Marcus has just never seemed to fit with this organization. 

I’m not sure how long Rivers plans on playing, but I could potentially see Marcus reuniting with Whisenhunt in LA for 2020. Idk if it’s the Hawaii connection or the super laid back personality, but Marcus has always struck me as a West Coast kinda dude. 

[KingTitan]

2 hours ago, ShupacTakur said:

At this point I’m fully expecting him to fizzle out next season and then revive his career elsewhere. I know that’s a highly pessimistic take, but I just don’t know. To me, Marcus has just never seemed to fit with this organization. 

I’m not sure how long Rivers plans on playing, but I could potentially see Marcus reuniting with Whisenhunt in LA for 2020. Idk if it’s the Hawaii connection or the super laid back personality, but Marcus has always struck me as a West Coast kinda dude. 

Honestly this is really a good market for him. People don't really hound the celebs here or Titans. 

News and reporters are really easy. 

I think someone from the sec would be the perfect fit, but it's a real chill market and that fits him I think. 

[ShupacTakur]

On 1/19/2019 at 10:23 PM, KingTitan said:

Honestly this is really a good market for him. People don't really hound the celebs here or Titans. 

News and reporters are really easy. 

I think someone from the sec would be the perfect fit, but it's a real chill market and that fits him I think. 

I don’t necessarily disagree. He’s definitely the nonchalant type of dude who could thrive in a smaller market, but he also has that “chill” surfer guy west coast personality. Plus, the cards have just been stacked so heavily against him here that a fresh start for him almost seems poetic at this point. 

[TitanRedd]

All he has to do is stay healthy, Ive said it before we can win with Mariota. No, he’s not a elite but he’s serviceable & a notch above game manager. Marcus best friend is a run game & strong defense to lean on. I’m fine wit Arthur Smith becoming OC, it’s something Marcus never hard continuity. Sure it’ll be growing pains due to smith, being a inexperienced play caller, however I don’t think it’s possible he can be as bad as Robiskie, or Chris Palmer. Mariota going in this Offseason being in the same offense, a healthy Delanie Walker, Corey Davis, I like the sound of that 💯

[KingTitan]

More information:

https://www.musiccitymiracles.com/platform/amp/2019/1/21/18179123/titans-offseason-roster-breakdown-offensive-line?utm_campaign=musiccitymiracles&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

Quote

 

After going back and re-watching all 47 of the Titans sacks allowed in 2018, I believe that the mystery of the high number of unassigned sacks AND the mystery of the low percentage of QB hits can be explained by the same factor: a tendency for Marcus Mariota to pull his eyes down and look to run when his first couple reads aren’t open.

 

To be clear, this tendency isn’t all on Mariota. He’s relying on receivers to get open and his playcaller to help them get open. Neither of those things happened regularly enough this season. There is also the injury factor and the fact that Mariota was learning yet another new offensive system. It’s also not to say that Mariota can’t cycle through reads or “is a running quarterback”. However, the Titans quarterback’s response to targets not being open in 2018 was too often a panicked scramble that landed him in harm’s way.

Mariota’s threshold for reacting to pressure also seemed to be lower in 2018 which could help explain why he took so few hits compared to sacks. He was the only quarterback with at least 300 dropbacks to not record a single “hit as thrown” passing attempt according to PFF charting. The quarterback on the opposite end of that spectrum, the Chiefs Patrick Mahomes, was hit as he threw 16 times.

That would seem to indicate that Mariota was quicker to react to pressure than most of his peers and less likely to attempt a throw in the face of that pressure. That can sometimes be a good thing — pressured throws are far more likely to result in turnovers than non-pressured throws — but the extreme degree to which Mariota chose not to throw inflated the overall sack numbers.

 

 

[TitanSS]

According to the article @KingTitan quoted, the Titans QBs were sacked nearly 70% of the time they were hit, worst in the league. Andrew Luck lead the league at under 25%.

I think this article goes along with what a lot of us were saying about Mariota (that was called hyperbole) and how poorly he did with pressure this year. Mariota and the OL weren't doing each other any favors to help each other out. The following quote pretty much sums up all of my frustrations with him: "However, the Titans quarterback’s response to targets not being open in 2018 was too often a panicked scramble that landed him in harm’s way". 

This would suggest that there is no argument to the many people claiming that it was the OLs fault that Mariota was hurt so often, as only 4 teams in the NFL allowed the QB to be hit less often than we did.

I don't remember thinking he had this issue in the previous years which makes me think he struggled with the new system. He seemed to struggle even more reading the field this year. Hopefully something is simplified for him next year. While it isn't entirely all on Mariota, I thought the WRs were open far more often this year than in previous years. I'm not saying we don't need improvement there, but under Mularkey guys seemed to really struggle to uncover.

I think we resign him beyond 2019 barring more devastating injury issues.