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FutureIsWhite

Marcus Mariota: Is it Time ??

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1 minute ago, KingTitan said:

I think saying they would have extended him already. They won't do it because of the injury history. I don't think it's based on his play. It's his availability 

I mean, that's the main gist of the issue. He's a pretty decent quarterback when he's healthy, he just can't stay healthy. Had he shown more durability to this point, his play would probably reflect it, and he'd have likely already been extended. 

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3 hours ago, KingTitan said:

They LOOOOVE Marcus. They do. They love everything about him.
They are like, just give us a reason to back you. Stay Healthy.....play consistent (at whatever level that is) and we will pay you.

If they were the opposite, they would be looking for a reason to get rid of him. Looking for a reason to bench him. And I just don't think that is the case.

Example: Vince Young. I think the team was looking for a reason to bench him. Give me anything and I'm playing Kerry Collins. Young was the QB when we won some games, had fan support, and they were looking for excuses to get rid of him and Young gave it to them.

This is not the case. 

They are almost going out their way to promote Marcus and hope the fans stay with him, since we have a lot of them turning on Marcus, for various reasons. 

 

3 hours ago, ShupacTakur said:

I mean, that's the main gist of the issue. He's a pretty decent quarterback when he's healthy, he just can't stay healthy. Had he shown more durability to this point, his play would probably reflect it, and he'd have likely already been extended. 

I think that there's some truth to both here.  My take on it is that the FO loves Mariota, and wants to keep him, but are smart enough to know that with what he's shown so far, he's not worth paying him like the most recent QB contracts have been paid, and that's why they've waited.

The way QB contracts have gone, it seems that regardless of who the QB is, if he's your franchise guy, the market starts at the highest contract that was doled out last year (hence the circus act that is Dak's negotiation).  The FO will not sink that kind of money into Mariota for what he's done so far, but probably will if he stays healthy enough this season to lead the Titans into a deep playoff run.  On the other hand, if he gets a season ending injury again, or misses enough time to make Tennessee miss the playoffs again, they'll probably offer him a more team friendly contract that they can get out of if a better option comes along.

Mariota has only had two truly healthy seasons: his rookie year, and 2016, and those years he looked like a stud.  Unfortunately, he hasn't been completely healthy since then, and he hasn't developed enough to fix the problematic tendencies that he showed early on (like holding the ball too long).  I think a completely healthy Mariota is an above average starting QB, and that's why the FO likes him.  They can win with him.  They can win playoff games and beat top end teams with him.  But he has to be at least mostly available for him to be worth investing in, even with that ability.

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53 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 

I think that there's some truth to both here.  My take on it is that the FO loves Mariota, and wants to keep him, but are smart enough to know that with what he's shown so far, he's not worth paying him like the most recent QB contracts have been paid, and that's why they've waited.

The way QB contracts have gone, it seems that regardless of who the QB is, if he's your franchise guy, the market starts at the highest contract that was doled out last year (hence the circus act that is Dak's negotiation).  The FO will not sink that kind of money into Mariota for what he's done so far, but probably will if he stays healthy enough this season to lead the Titans into a deep playoff run.  On the other hand, if he gets a season ending injury again, or misses enough time to make Tennessee miss the playoffs again, they'll probably offer him a more team friendly contract that they can get out of if a better option comes along.

Mariota has only had two truly healthy seasons: his rookie year, and 2016, and those years he looked like a stud.  Unfortunately, he hasn't been completely healthy since then, and he hasn't developed enough to fix the problematic tendencies that he showed early on (like holding the ball too long).  I think a completely healthy Mariota is an above average starting QB, and that's why the FO likes him.  They can win with him.  They can win playoff games and beat top end teams with him.  But he has to be at least mostly available for him to be worth investing in, even with that ability.

He wasn’t healthy his rookie yr what you mean he took a beating & missed games wit a sprained knee. 😩 I’m sold on Mariota & by sold meaning we can contend for a championship if he’s healthy, a strong run game, & defense balls out. Mariota, however is limited as a passer & throwing from the pocket. My opinion it doesn’t matter how many weapons we surround him with, if he can’t sit in the pocket go through his progression & make all the throws. I also think that our passing offense will be limited & we want challenge defenses, like we think simply, because our route concepts will be limited because we know what throws Marcus can & cant make & we want to play towards his strengths. 

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6 hours ago, TitanSS said:

1. So we say to hell with going 9-7 each of the last 3 years with 1 playoff win, let's go 3-13 over an over again and draft a QB every 3 years until we have another starter?

2. Tannehill has done absolutely nothing to warrant replacing Mariota, hence why he was traded. The front office understands that Mariota being injured has cost us far too much, but there is no indication that they see Tannehill as a replacement, and I highly doubt there to be any truth in that speculation.

3. Great example. This basically goes with #1. The Browns were the laughing stock of the NFL for 20 years and now they might finally have a guy who can play. Let's forget the fact that the guy hasn't even played 16 games in the NFL yet and you're already crowning him and focus on my previous sentence. Do you really want to be the laughing stock of the NFL for the next 20 years? Picking in the top 5 every year instead of being a borderline playoff team as Mariota makes us?

I don't want to be absolute dog **** anymore. I acknowledge Mariota has issues, but I also acknowledge that he's probably somewhere around the 20th best QB in the NFL. Do you know what that means? He's a starting NFL QB on 12 teams.

Right now our QB group is an injury prone Mariota and an injury prone Tannehill. If we let Mariota go simply for the hell of it we then are stuck with an injury prone Tannehill as our starter and some no-name guy as our backup. And oh, by the way, Tannehill is injured just as often as Mariota. So that means we are exactly where we started with some **** backup starting 4 games a year for us again.

Again, I don't think Mariota is our savior, but I think he's the best we're going to have access to for the time being. I absolutely do not want to be picking in the top 5-10 year after year again. I would rather try to take an approach similar to what the Chiefs did with Alex Smith, who I think was a similarly talented player. 

Bottom line: The next two playoff games mean as much for Mariota as they do for Vrabel. Nothing. Barring an injury (however likely) he is going to start the entirety of this season. It would take play far worse than he has ever demonstated over the course of a season for us to outright bench him without an injury. Provided that he performs well enough for us to be in contention for a playoff spot, he will most likely be extended as our starter. That doesn't mean we can't look for a QB. It just means we're not likely to find one better simply because we decided to let what we had go.

1. As a lifelong Titans fan I’m far too familiar with the infamous  9-7 (8-8 type) season. You know where that gets us ? Not good enough to win and not bad enough to get a high pick .We’re in QB purgatory , a place we all are far too familiar with under the Jeff Fisher era .  

Yet Again your saying if we bench Mariota for Tanehill we’re going to go back to our 3-13 days like Mariota has warranted 6 wins lol. I’m fairly confident we can get the same production from RT that we have from Mariota the last two years, my guess more . 

2. Like i said before in a previous post, the best man should get the job. I’m not saying give it to RT, I’m saying let them both play in all 4 preseason games and if RT outplays him like he did last week you bench Mariota. 

3. Browns have picked in the top 5 for a decade because they were the worst run franchise in football . The titans are not , we have a roster that can compare to some of the best in football , however our QB is holding us back . I’m really not trying to be an *** here but the fact that you think Mariotas 11 tds and 13 picks is not holding this team back says all I need to know about your football knowledge . Do you understand how bad that is ? It’s so incredibly bad that it’s actually a miracle we finished 9-7.

Lastly , are you kidding me ? Your justifying keeping Mariota because he’s your 20th ranked QB? Because he would be a starter on 12 NFL teams lol? That’s your justification? 

 Your ok with us having a bottom 13 QB when only 12 teams make the playoffs out of 32 and only 1 wins the championship. So what your saying is you don’t ever want to win.

You don’t need a top 5 QB to win, but you need one better then a bottom 13. (Please don’t use flacco and foles . Foles was Super Bowl MVP and carried that team in 2017 and also winning a playoff game last year . Flacco was in his prime and played like an MVP and wasn’t bottom 13 then).

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.oregonlive.com/ducks/2019/08/marcus-mariota-not-a-lock-to-start-for-the-tennessee-titans-in-week-1-report.html%3foutputType=amp

 

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I think at the end of the day, you have to look around the league and say, "could we do better with any of these guys?"  I dont think we could do better than Marcus at this point.  

I have been very hard on him for the last 2 years, but I think we need him as much as he needs us.  He's always going to be good for that one throw every game that makes you say "wow" for the right reasons, and another for the wrong reasons.  You take the good with the bad.

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The overreaction from the national media regarding Mariota's one drive and Tannehill lighting up backups, is certainly something.

There hasn't been any indication all offseason that there's an open QB competition, and now all of a sudden after one preseason game, Tannehill may be our week 1 starter. I mean, really?

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1 minute ago, TitanSlim said:

The overreaction from the national media regarding Mariota's one drive and Tannehill lighting up backups, is certainly something.

There hasn't been any indication all offseason that there's an open QB competition, and now all of a sudden after one preseason game, Tannehill may be our week 1 starter. I mean, really?

Even though I’m not in Mariotas camp, I still didn’t think there was going to be any question who would start week 1 because of what the coaches have said . However I also didn’t expect RT to make the QB position look easy , all while watching our offense march down the field at ease on two consecutive drives . Something we haven’t seen in quite sometime .

i also didn’t expect Mariota to look like he did . I get it was only one drive but anyone watching couldn’t help but notice his weak looking arm and the lack of confidence he was playing with . It’s concerning against a vanilla defense , next week will be telling . 

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1 hour ago, FutureIsWhite said:

1. As a lifelong Titans fan I’m far too familiar with the infamous  9-7 (8-8 type) season. You know where that gets us ? Not good enough to win and not bad enough to get a high pick .We’re in QB purgatory , a place we all are far too familiar with under the Jeff Fisher era .  

Yet Again your saying if we bench Mariota for Tanehill we’re going to go back to our 3-13 days like Mariota has warranted 6 wins lol. I’m fairly confident we can get the same production from RT that we have from Mariota the last two years, my guess more . 

2. Like i said before in a previous post, the best man should get the job. I’m not saying give it to RT, I’m saying let them both play in all 4 preseason games and if RT outplays him like he did last week you bench Mariota. 

3. Browns have picked in the top 5 for a decade because they were the worst run franchise in football . The titans are not , we have a roster that can compare to some of the best in football , however our QB is holding us back . I’m really not trying to be an *** here but the fact that you think Mariotas 11 tds and 13 picks is not holding this team back says all I need to know about your football knowledge . Do you understand how bad that is ? It’s so incredibly bad that it’s actually a miracle we finished 9-7.

Lastly , are you kidding me ? Your justifying keeping Mariota because he’s your 20th ranked QB? Because he would be a starter on 12 NFL teams lol? That’s your justification? 

 Your ok with us having a bottom 13 QB when only 12 teams make the playoffs out of 32 and only 1 wins the championship. So what your saying is you don’t ever want to win.

You don’t need a top 5 QB to win, but you need one better then a bottom 13. (Please don’t use flacco and foles . Foles was Super Bowl MVP and carried that team in 2017 and also winning a playoff game last year . Flacco was in his prime and played like an MVP and wasn’t bottom 13 then).

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.oregonlive.com/ducks/2019/08/marcus-mariota-not-a-lock-to-start-for-the-tennessee-titans-in-week-1-report.html%3foutputType=amp

 

1. As a lifelong fan you should also know that it can and will be worse, much worse, without him. 

Really, the guy who came in to make a post about benching Mariota for Tannehill after seeing one drive in a week 1 preseason games thinks Tannehill can give us more than Mariota. That's a real shocker.

2. That's a joke. It's symbolic of the people who thought Zach Mettenberger was going to be a starting QB in the NFL for his preseason production. Unless you are a player on the roster bubble, your preseason performance means absolutely nothing.

3. Until last season our best WR in Mariota's career was Rishard Matthews, a WR who was so bad he couldn't get a job after he left the team. Who was holding who back? His injuries are holding the team back, I will give you that, but your stellar roster is overselling the offense by a large margin. The offensive line was hot garbage last year, we had no running game until the last 6-7 games of the season, we had one starting caliber receiving threat on the team and coverage was always shifted to his side because he was so heavily favored as a target, and Mariota had an injury in his throwing hand. Also, last year was the first year that we have fielded a competent defense. You're telling me I have no football knowledge while scouting a stat sheet.

Yes I'm okay with the 20th best QB in the NFL when the options are the ones I laid out in the post above. Yes I'm okay with finishing 9-7 with 1 playoff win in 3 years instead of the 3-13 record we had before we had Mariota. No I'm not okay with going back to drafting top 5 being forced to draft a QB because we don't have one who can start on the roster.

If you have an easy solution to get a QB better than Mariota that doesn't involve making the team worse, I'm all for it. I did the math for you in the previous post of what is most likely to happen when you are FORCED to draft a QB because you don't have one instead of rolling with an average QB and waiting for your guy.

But then again, you came to the forums to talk about benching Mariota because he played one drive and Tannehill lit up a bunch of guys on the roster bubble, so why would I expect facts and logic to make any sense?

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12 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

If you have an easy solution to get a QB better than Mariota that doesn't involve making the team worse, I'm all for it. I did the math for you in the previous post of what is most likely to happen when you are FORCED to draft a QB because you don't have one instead of rolling with an average QB and waiting for your guy.

But then again, you came to the forums to talk about benching Mariota because he played one drive and Tannehill lit up a bunch of guys on the roster bubble, so why would I expect facts and logic to make any sense?

I actually do have a solution. I’ll break it down for you because your not understanding .

Marcus Mariota had 11 Touchdowns last year and 8 picks in 14 starts . In 2017 Marcus had 13 touchdowns and 15 picks in 15 starts.  Now go in your little stat calculator you have and look at all the starting QBs who played at least 14 and 15 games in those respective seasons . Please let’s not throw in childish comments like “well Marcus went 9-7” while so and so went 3-13”. The Titans defense won us most of the games , so  if you say Mariota won the pats and eagles games  then I can say Byard won the first Texans game with the trick pass  . Overall the defense is what has been our foundation . 

Now after you’ve checked the list  , you can see Marcus finished 28th overall in passing efficiency last year in 14 starts  behind guys like joe Flacco (just traded for change ) , Alex Smith(not traded for much)  , and A rookie QB in Mayfield,   Also on your stat checker , you will see an undrafted QB in Mullins, And a journeyman in fitz ahead of Mariota. 

So you see you can get a QB anywhere really that can put up numbers better then Mariota. You can trade a late round draft pick (Smith, Flacco) , you can find an undrafted guy like Mullins, a free agent like fitz(who I’m not saying is the answer , just saying he would give us more production) , grab a guy like foles and lastly you can draft a guy or trade up like the eagles did with wentz, rams did with Goff, Chiefs did with mahomes, Texans did with Watson etc etc. 

Say what you will but the lists don’t lie , Your theory is we can’t find someone who can make us better right now  and I’ve given you not 1 , not 2 , not 3, but 4 different examples of how teams got a QB over the last year that gave them better production then Mariota gave us . 

Weapon excuse?

Flacco was sure throwing to a bunch of amazing WRs and tight ends last year. 

Mullins weapons or lack there of lol. 

Alex smith and his weapons ? Did Washington have any receivers ? Ha 

New coach excuse ?

Mullin is a rookie so no brainer

Smith was just traded so he had a new coach 

 

I think I covered it all ... Your move sir 

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Judging Mariota for his first five of the season? Lmao. 

Why not judge Tannehill by the same criteria on his 3 and out?

Some of these arguments are straight up laughable... 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, FutureIsWhite said:

I actually do have a solution. I’ll break it down for you because your not understanding .

Marcus Mariota had 11 Touchdowns last year and 8 picks in 14 starts . In 2017 Marcus had 13 touchdowns and 15 picks in 15 starts.  Now go in your little stat calculator you have and look at all the starting QBs who played at least 14 and 15 games in those respective seasons . Please let’s not throw in childish comments like “well Marcus went 9-7” while so and so went 3-13”. The Titans defense won us most of the games , so  if you say Mariota won the pats and eagles games  then I can say Byard won the first Texans game with the trick pass  . Overall the defense is what has been our foundation . 

Now after you’ve checked the list  , you can see Marcus finished 28th overall in passing efficiency last year in 14 starts  behind guys like joe Flacco (just traded for change ) , Alex Smith(not traded for much)  , and A rookie QB in Mayfield,   Also on your stat checker , you will see an undrafted QB in Mullins, And a journeyman in fitz ahead of Mariota. 

So you see you can get a QB anywhere really that can put up numbers better then Mariota. You can trade a late round draft pick (Smith, Flacco) , you can find an undrafted guy like Mullins, a free agent like fitz(who I’m not saying is the answer , just saying he would give us more production) , grab a guy like foles and lastly you can draft a guy or trade up like the eagles did with wentz, rams did with Goff, Chiefs did with mahomes, Texans did with Watson etc etc. 

Say what you will but the lists don’t lie , Your theory is we can’t find someone who can make us better right now  and I’ve given you not 1 , not 2 , not 3, but 4 different examples of how teams got a QB over the last year that gave them better production then Mariota gave us . 

Weapon excuse?

Flacco was sure throwing to a bunch of amazing WRs and tight ends last year. 

Mullins weapons or lack there of lol. 

Alex smith and his weapons ? Did Washington have any receivers ? Ha 

New coach excuse ?

Mullin is a rookie so no brainer

Smith was just traded so he had a new coach 

 

I think I covered it all ... Your move sir 

Thank god scouting a stat sheet is literally the only thing that matters in football. Blake Bortles threw 35 TDs in one season maybe we can get him to start for us.

If Mariota comes out and has another sub 15 TD season I would let him walk. I would do the same for another highly injured plagued season.

You've already determined in your head that a stat sheet and one preseason drive is all that matter, so I won't reiterate the same points to you over and over. You're just going to continue to cherry pick certain situations that support your argument instead of looking at much larger sample sizes.

However if we're playoff contenders and he's healthy and even as low as 20-10, he's probably coming back. Yes, I'm sure we can find a QB with more than 20 TDs over a one or two season sample size, but I'm going to just go on a limb and say that unless it's a very unimpressive season he's coming back. Stat sheets aren't as important to people in football as they are to fans. He may not come back as a long term solution in the FO's eyes, but he'll come back.

Edited by TitanSS

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, TitanSS said:

ou've already determined in your head that a stat sheet and one preseason drive is all that matter, so I won't reiterate the same points to you over and over. You're just going to continue to cherry pick certain situations that support your argument instead of looking at much larger sample sizes.

I don’t need a stat sheet or a preseason game to tell me this team is getting held back by Mariota . Any non Mariota homer that isn’t biased to the guy will say it like it is and im one of those fans . You see , if I didn’t put stats in there you would be the one putting in your own stats that try and justify Mariota being worth keeping . As far as cherry picking stats , are you kidding me ? How am I doing so ?

im not posting worthless statistics like the Homers post all year saying how great Mariota is. I’m posting stats on his touchdowns , interceptions and yards . Those 3 stats are pretty critical when judging a QB , kind of like how a baseball players home runs , batting average and RBIs are critical for a baseball players worth. If you want to use the “well all he does is win” take then I could post guys that have had more winning seasons or more playoff wins then Mariota but I’m sure you’d have some sort of rebuttal for that. Real quick though, you know bortles has more playoff wins then Mariota? Do you know Dalton has more wining seasons and playoff appearances? Here’s a good one, do you know Tebow has a playoff win , same as Marcus . Or how about Lamar Jackson , a rookie who can’t pass has the same amount of playoff appearances. I can continue naming bad QBs who have been more successful then Mariota but you get the point . 

 

Lastly if You don’t judge a QB on stats , and you obviously don’t judge them on there  play , then what do you judge a QB on? It can’t be 3 9-7 seasons because who gets happy about being mediocre , so Enlighten me . How do you judge a QB? 

Edited by FutureIsWhite

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8 hours ago, ragevsuall17 said:

Judging Mariota for his first five of the season? Lmao. 

Why not judge Tannehill by the same criteria on his 3 and out?

Some of these arguments are straight up laughable... 

I’m judging Mariota on his last two years , not just 1 preseason drive . The last time we heard about Marcus he was missing a huggggeee home week 17 game because of a nerve injury. “He May never be the same” some people stated , so fast forward 8 months and Mariotas arm looked like an arm you would find on a D3 football team. Or an arm hindered by a nerve injury , either or it was very worrisome to see coming from your 2019 Tennessee Titans starting QB. The fact that fans, media, and even some Huge Mariota homers are concerned after one drive is telling , even some of the biggest Mariota supporters are now switching there stance because of how tired they are with his Inconsistent and injury riddled play. In time you will as well. 

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I series... And while it wasn't good, it also wasn't terrible. 

 

They converted 2 of 3 3rd downs... His "bad" passes were the deep one to Jennings... And while he was a little late, he put air under it to give him a chance to catch, whi h he should have. The 4th down pass was the best read... Into tight coverage... And hit him in the hands. Not fair a bad pass, and made the correct read. Had he thrown to the short comeback route, there was no way of getting a first down, and he woulda been critized for a bad read. He did throw behind Adams on one of the 3rd down conversions... But it's not a horrible first drive of the year. 

People will have concerns... I understand being concerned about injury... But letting 1 drive... The first of the PREseason... with 80% the expected starting skill players missing... Move the needle in any way is ridiculous. 

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2 minutes ago, ragevsuall17 said:

I series... And while it wasn't good, it also wasn't terrible. 

 

They converted 2 of 3 3rd downs... His "bad" passes were the deep one to Jennings... And while he was a little late, he put air under it to give him a chance to catch, whi h he should have. The 4th down pass was the best read... Into tight coverage... And hit him in the hands. Not fair a bad pass, and made the correct read. Had he thrown to the short comeback route, there was no way of getting a first down, and he woulda been critized for a bad read. He did throw behind Adams on one of the 3rd down conversions... But it's not a horrible first drive of the year. 

People will have concerns... I understand being concerned about injury... But letting 1 drive... The first of the PREseason... with 80% the expected starting skill players missing... Move the needle in any way is ridiculous. 

Foolish!

Just as we can tell that Cam Wake is buried in the depth chart by his lack of playing time, and that Kalif Raymond is likely our starter across from Corey Davis, the preseason is huge.

Next you're gonna tell me that Logan Woodside isn't in consideration for the starting job, after he put up numbers almost as good as Tannehill while also having inferior help and having to take three sacks.  He averaged 8.5 yards per rush!  He ought to be in consideration for the RB3 job with rushing stats like that.  Just imagine how awesome we'd be having a running back who can complete 75% of his passes and get first downs all by himself!

Yall are also missing a bigger problem we have.  Every single Titans rookie is buried in the depth chart.  Not a single one of them was better than a third string player, despite all the fanfare that AJ Brown came in with.  That should be a serious concern to everyone, and we may want to start following the Texans model and getting rid of Robinson.

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