Jump to content

Marcus Mariota: Is it Time ??


FutureIsWhite

Recommended Posts

"I'm too old for this sh##"  😁

It's gonna be a very long preseason let alone season. Every throw is going to be overanalyzed for the good or the bad. 

The variables have been mentioned from the OC's, head coaches, lack of Wrs, bad o-line play etc. 

It's year 5 and we still aren't 100% because of those factors. I've seen enough to know he is a good qb and you can win a super bowl with him. But the team has to be right to do so. 

He is about as good as Goff. Maybe better because he can move. 

The team is built to win in the immediate future. Rookie QB in my opinion isn't the answer. 

 

Rinse wash and repeat my thoughts. Lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, ttitansfan4life said:

Yep but good QBs do fall for some reason or another. The best one in the league right now was drafted 10th overall. Watson was drafted 12th overall. I’m really intrigued by Jake Fromm. I think once you take him out of that bs running scheme that Kirby likes to run, he’ll be a stud. Guys like Tua and Herbert can go top 3 but I’m taking Fromm over both who has been mocked all over the 1st round. The Titans are in QB purgatory and the team is too damn good to get a top 5 pick. However, if they get a top 20 pick, they can certainly get into the top 10 for a QB. If that means giving up a future 1st, then so be it if JRob thinks that guy is the guy.

I do think Mahommes is the deal deal, but I'm curious how Watson will be seen 3 years from now. 

Also, yeah they do fall, but it's just so unlikely. How many times has a QB been drafted between 5-20 and how many times have they turned out to be Mahommes? Not a good ratio. You're far more likely to get Christian Ponder at the 10th pick than you are Mahommes.

I would venture a guess that anyone we draft outside the top 3-5 will be worse than Mariota 9 out of 10 times by the time the new QB hype falls off.

I'm not saying you can't try if you really like someone. I'm saying the Chiefs didn't get Mahommes by drafting a QB every year just so they could replace Alex Smith. They waited patiently for years with their QB and moved up when the time was right. They could have done it sooner because Smith wasn't the answer, but moving up to get someone worse than him just for the sake of having someone different wasn't a good solution.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, TitanSS said:

I do think Mahommes is the deal deal, but I'm curious how Watson will be seen 3 years from now. 

Also, yeah they do fall, but it's just so unlikely. How many times has a QB been drafted between 5-20 and how many times have they turned out to be Mahommes? Not a good ratio. You're far more likely to get Christian Ponder at the 10th pick than you are Mahommes.

I would venture a guess that anyone we draft outside the top 3-5 will be worse than Mariota 9 out of 10 times by the time the new QB hype falls off.

I'm not saying you can't try if you really like someone. I'm saying the Chiefs didn't get Mahommes by drafting a QB every year just so they could replace Alex Smith. They waited patiently for years with their QB and moved up when the time was right. They could have done it sooner because Smith wasn't the answer, but moving up to get someone worse than him just for the sake of having someone different wasn't a good solution.

Just posted in another thread that when you draft someone you are likely getting an average to terrible QB.

Last 10 years only produced 2 "generational" Franchise guys. Russell Wilson and Andrew Luck. With Mahommes likely being the 3rd if he can keep it up.
Others are just good and are really dependent on the team they are on and who is around.  (Ryan, Dak, Mariota, Winston, Stafford, Newton, Goff..etc)

Franchise guys are rare for a reason. Unless you have a chance to get a without question guy, you hold onto your "good/decent" QB build the right system around him and hope everything comes together in the right year.
Without Brady, Manning, Brees, Luck and Wilson you are dependent on the team to win. Those for mentioned guys can win with lesser teams. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

Just posted in another thread that when you draft someone you are likely getting an average to terrible QB.

Last 10 years only produced 2 "generational" Franchise guys. Russell Wilson and Andrew Luck. With Mahommes likely being the 3rd if he can keep it up.
Others are just good and are really dependent on the team they are on and who is around.  (Ryan, Dak, Mariota, Winston, Stafford, Newton, Goff..etc)

Franchise guys are rare for a reason. Unless you have a chance to get a without question guy, you hold onto your "good/decent" QB build the right system around him and hope everything comes together in the right year.
Without Brady, Manning, Brees, Luck and Wilson you are dependent on the team to win. Those for mentioned guys can win with lesser teams. 

While I agree With you that finding a franchise QB is very hard , I disagree with you that teams like Panthers (with Cam) , Falcons (with Matt Ryan)  could have went to the super bowl if you put Mariota or Winston in either of there places .  I also agree with you that getting rid of a good QB (not great) or even an average QB could be problematic for a franchise because like you said finding a franchise guy just doesn’t happen that often. However Mariota is not on the same level as a Cam , Dak , wentz, or Ryan etc etc  . , not even close . If we were comparing the Mariota from 2016 to them then I wouldn’t even bother arguing , but we’re not ,  the Mariota that we’ve seen the last two years is a bottom tier QB who if anything is hindering this teams window. 

So while I agree that holding onto an average QB might be for the best , I also think that if Mariota gets hurt or has another year like the last two he should be gone, which he more then likely will be . To counter your argument , if we decided to keep our average QB and sign him to a large contract which we would have too or give him top dollar from the franchise tag then our team would be in the same place we are now . Very little chance to win but not bad  enough to get a Trevor Lawrence type guy (aka QB purgatory). In order to get your franchise guy you have to be in the Market for a QB , and if we resigned Mariota we would be missing out on all these guys as well as 5 more years of us fans watching a 9-7 season. However we would be bringing home  that beautiful golden participation trophy all the homers get happy about . 

 

I might be the biggest Mariota hater but it’s not because I have an agenda , it’s because I love this team and have been a fan longgggggggg before Mariota came here. I used to back him like everyone else , I’d argue with the haters , call nonsense on posters etc but after year 3 I kind of just fell off his wagon. Once fans started showing me stats like “Mariota has either missed or been hurt in 26 percent of all games “, he’s only played in 1 week 17 game , he’s thrown the same number of picks as tds the last two years ,and  he’s never played a full season etc etc etc . I just couldn’t argue anymore. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I want to use Cam as an example. 
Outside of his first year, he hasn't throw for over 4,000 yards.  He has thrown for over 30 TDs once.
2015 being his best year and the teams best season, going to the Super Bowl.  Why? Because everything lined up perfectly. Running game, defense, schedule, and health. Did Cam do anything particularly special as a QB that year that he hasn't done every other year? I would say no. 
Cam adds his running which is what makes him different. 
As a QB.....he has thrown double digit INTs every year. He has thrown 43 INTs in the last 3 seasons alone.
Then if you talking about winning seasons since he has been QB, they have...... THREE!  :)  3 winning seasons. In 8 seasons they have had 3, count them...3 winning seasons. And he is head and shoulders better than Marcus? You hear the mess here with Marcus after he has had 3 winning seasons in 4 years. lol  Imagine we go 4 more seasons with no winning record. 

For me to think that Cam is as good as it can get or that he isn't replaceable is a lie. 
Cam makes highlights. He is a big personality and he has an Super Bowl appearance under his belt.  But say for whatever reason the Panthers pick in the top 10 or something like that and a QB is in reach. I'd have that conversation.

To me, Marcus is closer to "that level" than most give credit for. If "that level" is something we are trying to get. Don't even get me started with Dak. lol 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

I want to use Cam as an example. 
Outside of his first year, he hasn't throw for over 4,000 yards.  He has thrown for over 30 TDs once.
2015 being his best year and the teams best season, going to the Super Bowl.  Why? Because everything lined up perfectly. Running game, defense, schedule, and health. Did Cam do anything particularly special as a QB that year that he hasn't done every other year? I would say no. 
Cam adds his running which is what makes him different. 
As a QB.....he has thrown double digit INTs every year. He has thrown 43 INTs in the last 3 seasons alone.
Then if you talking about winning seasons since he has been QB, they have...... THREE!  :)  3 winning seasons. In 8 seasons they have had 3, count them...3 winning seasons. And he is head and shoulders better than Marcus? You hear the mess here with Marcus after he has had 3 winning seasons in 4 years. lol  Imagine we go 4 more seasons with no winning record. 

For me to think that Cam is as good as it can get or that he isn't replaceable is a lie. 
Cam makes highlights. He is a big personality and he has an Super Bowl appearance under his belt.  But say for whatever reason the Panthers pick in the top 10 or something like that and a QB is in reach. I'd have that conversation.

To me, Marcus is closer to "that level" than most give credit for. If "that level" is something we are trying to get. Don't even get me started with Dak. lol 

I see your hanging onto this Cam newton example to justify Mariota , and tbh I get what your saying . However let me ask you an honest question . And please leave the homerism at home . 

Would  you rather have 3 9-7 seasons with one playoff win ? Or would you rather have 3 playoff seasons and one Super Bowl appearance in the last 8 years? If I had to guess you would choose the super bowl appearance . This team hasn’t sniffed the super bowl since 2009 so anyone who would be happy with being a game over .500 for 3 years with only 1 playoff birth is absolutely lying . Do I think Cam is great ? Not by any stretch of the imagination, I just think he’s better then Mariota . Which is not saying much .

 

We can get into the whole stats thing , but do you really want to go there ? I mean our QB had 11 and 12 passing tds the last two years and has the same number of picks over that stretch, Our QB missed or leaves a game early 4 times a year on average . Our QB has yet to play a full season, our Qb has never thrown for more then 3500 yards in a season, and has never thrown for more then 26 tds in a season . If your going to knock Cam then man you could really go off on Mariota but I get not wanting to do that to your boy. Anyways the fact people say thing like “we had 3 wining seasons in a row” like it’s something special to finish 9-7 in a league that’s designed for teams to go 8-8 is mind boggling . 9-7 is borderline average , nothing more then mediocre . 

 

Not to mention Mariota isn’t a big reason we have been 9-7. It’s our top ten defense . 

Edited by FutureIsWhite
Link to comment
Share on other sites

this season just needs to freaking start

we've had the same conversations all offseason. overreacting to every tweet and every preseason snap

Jayon Brown had a big season last year. does anyone remember anything about his play from last training camp or preseason? I sure don't.

I can't live in this soap opera anymore. Will it be Marcus or will it be someone else? this is torture 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, FutureIsWhite said:

I see your hanging onto this Cam newton example to justify Mariota , and tbh I get what your saying . However let me ask you an honest question . And please leave the homerism at home . 

Would  you rather have 3 9-7 seasons with one playoff win ? Or would you rather have 3 playoff seasons and one Super Bowl appearance in the last 8 years? If I had to guess you would choose the super bowl appearance . This team hasn’t sniffed the super bowl since 2009 so anyone who would be happy with being a game over .500 for 3 years with only 1 playoff birth is absolutely lying . Do I think Cam is great ? Not by any stretch of the imagination, I just think he’s better then Mariota . Which is not saying much .

 

We can get into the whole stats thing , but do you really want to go there ? I mean our QB had 11 and 12 passing tds the last two years and has the same number of picks over that stretch, Our QB missed or leaves a game early 4 times a year on average . Our QB has yet to play a full season, our Qb has never thrown for more then 3500 yards in a season, and has never thrown for more then 26 tds in a season . If your going to knock Cam then man you could really go off on Mariota but I get not wanting to do that to your boy. Anyways the fact people say thing like “we had 3 wining seasons in a row” like it’s something special to finish 9-7 in a league that’s designed for teams to go 8-8 is mind boggling . 9-7 is borderline average , nothing more then mediocre . 

 

Not to mention Mariota isn’t a big reason we have been 9-7. It’s our top ten defense . 

To answer you question I'd take the later of course. That still doesn't make it head and shoulders a better situation. 
We've seen that type of success under Fisher and people HATED it. Would love it now...But HATED it then. One is better than the other but one doesn't really "feel" any better than the other. 

I'm not hanging on to Newton to justify Marcus. I'm bringing up Newton to talk about the perception of QB's as a whole. Insert any other average QB...Winston...whoever. The argument stays the same. 
Perception is that Newton is a without question a franchise QB but he isn't in my mind. 
And again i mention stats to just show how much is all about perception rather than production. I'm not trying to lift Marcus up. If anything I'm trying to point out how more are "down" to where he is than people care to admit. 

I'm saying QB's like Marcus, Newton etc are very dependent on the team around them. Saying Marcus isn't the reason for our success is close to saying Goff isn't the reason for the Rams winning, it's McVay. Saying it is dependent on another variable beside the player.

My point again is that for QB's on that level you need other variables to win. Marcus needs other variables. So does everyone not named Brady and Brees, in my opinion.
With that said a QB like Marcus, Winston or whomever needs a team.

Dak can't carry a team by himself. Matt Ryan has shown he can't do it by himself. They need team. And if that means having a Top 10 defense so be it. lol 


And please stop with this "my boy" crap. He is the team's QB and I don't hate him. I'm supporting him until he isn't the team's QB. I've said plenty of times he has faults and issues. 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

To answer you question I'd take the later of course. That still doesn't make it head and shoulders a better situation. 
We've seen that type of success under Fisher and people HATED it. Would love it now...But HATED it then. One is better than the other but one doesn't really "feel" any better than the other. 

I'm not hanging on to Newton to justify Marcus. I'm bringing up Newton to talk about the perception of QB's as a whole. Insert any other average QB...Winston...whoever. The argument stays the same. 
Perception is that Newton is a without question a franchise QB but he isn't in my mind. 
And again i mention stats to just show how much is all about perception rather than production. I'm not trying to lift Marcus up. If anything I'm trying to point out how more are "down" to where he is than people care to admit. 

I'm saying QB's like Marcus, Newton etc are very dependent on the team around them. Saying Marcus isn't the reason for our success is close to saying Goff isn't the reason for the Rams winning, it's McVay. Saying it is dependent on another variable beside the player.

My point again is that for QB's on that level you need other variables to win. Marcus needs other variables. So does everyone not named Brady and Brees, in my opinion.
With that said a QB like Marcus, Winston or whomever needs a team.

Dak can't carry a team by himself. Matt Ryan has shown he can't do it by himself. They need team. And if that means having a Top 10 defense so be it. lol 


And please stop with this "my boy" crap. He is the team's QB and I don't hate him. I'm supporting him until he isn't the team's QB. I've said plenty of times he has faults and issues. 
 

While I agree other QBs need a team around them To win (like Cam , Ryan , dak etc) , I think you at least need a QB that can win if given a team around them and I don’t think Mariota can. If you put Mariota on any team in the league I still don’t think he wins a super bowl. Why ? Because 1. he can’t stay healthy and 2. Because he is horribly inconsistent and I just don’t think he talented enough to win a Super Bowl. 2016 Marcus I think could but not this Marcus . 

 

I just think Cam, Ryan, dak are on a totally different tier then Mariota . 

 

Mariota to me on the same tier as Tannehill, Dalton type players . Not the Matt Ryan’s of the world and the 2015 MVP Cam Newton. Hell even Bortles has accomplished more in his career then Mariota and he’s about as bad as you can get . 

Edited by FutureIsWhite
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, FutureIsWhite said:

While I agree other QBs need a team around them To win (like Cam , Ryan , dak etc) , I think you at least need a QB that can win if given a team around them and I don’t think Mariota can. If you put Mariota on any team in the league I still don’t think he wins a super bowl. Why ? Because 1. he can’t stay healthy and 2. Because he is horribly inconsistent and I just don’t think he talented enough to win a Super Bowl. 2016 Marcus I think could but not this Marcus . 

 

I just think Cam, Ryan, dak are on a totally different tier then Mariota . 

 

Mariota to me on the same tier as Tannehill, Dalton type players . Not the Matt Ryan’s of the world and the 2015 MVP Cam Newton. Hell even Bortles has accomplished more in his career then Mariota and he’s about as bad as you can get . 

I'll just say this. 
To me, Marcus isn't "much" different from some of the QBs labeled as franchise guys. He can't stay completely healthy, he has been inconsistent at times and he isn't a loud player. That is what separates him from the others. 
None of those guys make plays that Marcus can't make. 

I think the team around Marcus hasn't lived up to their billing at times as well. The O-line and WRs specifically have let the offense down a lot of times. Marcus is the QB and that rest at his feet. 
Marcus has shown (2nd year) that he can do it in this league given consistent weapons and o-line play. (Much like 95% of the leagues QB's). 
Dak needs a running game. Wentz needs protection. Ryan needs running game. Cam needs a defense. All dependent on another factor to do well. I believe Marcus is in that boat. If others don't so be it. 


Saying that, I am fully prepared for Marcus to be gone next year. I won't cry about it. I won't be sad. Disappointed likely. But then, I'll be ready to support the next guy. 
Only for everyone to love for the first season and then be ready to ship him out after year2 :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

this season just needs to freaking start

we've had the same conversations all offseason. overreacting to every tweet and every preseason snap

Jayon Brown had a big season last year. does anyone remember anything about his play from last training camp or preseason? I sure don't.

I can't live in this soap opera anymore. Will it be Marcus or will it be someone else? this is torture 

I think the fact that it's still a question shows that he has it in him. He isn't an open and shut case like say, Bortles was or Manziel. He has shown he can do it and that is what makes me personally not want to fling him aside with no clear future plan. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

I'll just say this. 
To me, Marcus isn't "much" different from some of the QBs labeled as franchise guys. He can't stay completely healthy, he has been inconsistent at times and he isn't a loud player. That is what separates him from the others. 
None of those guys make plays that Marcus can't make. 

I think the team around Marcus hasn't lived up to their billing at times as well. The O-line and WRs specifically have let the offense down a lot of times. Marcus is the QB and that rest at his feet. 
Marcus has shown (2nd year) that he can do it in this league given consistent weapons and o-line play. (Much like 95% of the leagues QB's). 
Dak needs a running game. Wentz needs protection. Ryan needs running game. Cam needs a defense. All dependent on another factor to do well. I believe Marcus is in that boat. If others don't so be it. 


Saying that, I am fully prepared for Marcus to be gone next year. I won't cry about it. I won't be sad. Disappointed likely. But then, I'll be ready to support the next guy. 
Only for everyone to love for the first season and then be ready to ship him out after year2 :) 

I think it’s warranted that most fans have jumped ship on Mariota. I can’t name one fan who wasn’t a huge Mariota supporter after year one but two years later and he’s shown absolutely nothing like he did in 2016 is extremely concerning and warrants fans from wanting to move on. 4 years later and the guy looks like he’s taken 10 steps backwards , he’s nothing like the guy we’ve seen in the past and please stop bringing up the weapons argument . The guy has been given a second round RB in Henry, the highest paid Free agent rb from a year ago in Lewis, two top ten tackles , a top 5 WR, Delanie walker, We traded for Murray a few years back , gave Mathews a big contract , etc etc . And at the end of the day Mariota did more his first season with less talent then what he’s done the last two years. At some point excuses run dry and going into year 5 he’s used them all up. Like a poster stated above ,Mariota must still have it if he’s given the opportunity to start this year. However my argument is a year 5 guy shouldn’t have his biggest game of his career come in week 2 and 3 of the preseason but that’s where Mariota is . The next two preseason games are massive for Mariota and that in itself is concerning . 

Edited by FutureIsWhite
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, FutureIsWhite said:

I think it’s warranted that most fans have jumped ship on Mariota. I can’t name one fan who wasn’t a huge Mariota supporter after year one but two years later and he’s shown absolutely nothing like he did in 2016 is extremely concerning and warrants fans from wanting to move on. 4 years later and the guy looks like he’s taken 10 steps backwards , he’s nothing like the guy we’ve seen in the past and please stop bringing up the weapons argument . The guy has been given a second round RB in Henry, the highest paid Free agent rb from a year ago in Lewis, two top ten tackles , a top 5 WR, Delanie walker, We traded for Murray a few years back , gave Mathews a big contract , etc etc . And at the end of the day Mariota did more his first season with less talent then what he’s done the last two years. At some point excuses run dry and going into year 5 he’s used them all up. Like a poster stated above ,Mariota must still have it if he’s given the opportunity to start this year. However my argument is a year 5 guy shouldn’t have his biggest game of his career come in week 2 and 3 of the preseason but that’s where Mariota is . The next two preseason games are massive for Mariota and that in itself is concerning . 

giphy.gif

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, FutureIsWhite said:

I think it’s warranted that most fans have jumped ship on Mariota. I can’t name one fan who wasn’t a huge Mariota supporter after year one but two years later and he’s shown absolutely nothing like he did in 2016 is extremely concerning and warrants fans from wanting to move on. 4 years later and the guy looks like he’s taken 10 steps backwards , he’s nothing like the guy we’ve seen in the past and please stop bringing up the weapons argument . The guy has been given a second round RB in Henry, the highest paid Free agent rb from a year ago in Lewis, two top ten tackles , a top 5 WR, Delanie walker, We traded for Murray a few years back , gave Mathews a big contract , etc etc . And at the end of the day Mariota did more his first season with less talent then what he’s done the last two years. At some point excuses run dry and going into year 5 he’s used them all up. Like a poster stated above ,Mariota must still have it if he’s given the opportunity to start this year. However my argument is a year 5 guy shouldn’t have his biggest game of his career come in week 2 and 3 of the preseason but that’s where Mariota is . The next two preseason games are massive for Mariota and that in itself is concerning

How do you figure this? It's not like his starting job is in jeopardy. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

giphy.gif

Wait , so you don’t think the next two preseason games are important for Mariota? 

He played 1 drive in PG1 and people are already calling for a change. It’s not just me , it’s fans , it’s the media , it’s everywhere. This isn’t going to just go away, it’s only going to get worse as he plays more . Don’t think for second that if Mariota plays horrid again this week and Tannehill plays good that more people won’t be talking . It’s going to get louder and louder as the preseason goes on and unless Mariota starts outplaying RT then this discussion isn’t going away. 

 

As a so called Mariota hater myself , I still thought there was no QB competition going into the year , but after last game how can there not be ? Like I stated before , i usually don’t overact after 1 preseason game , but I can’t help what I watched . Mariota looked lost , his arm was weak, zero confidence , poor accuracy . Yes it’s only 1 drive but he didn’t look like an NFL QB , he just didn’t and the fact people didn’t see that is very concerning . 

So go ahead and laugh but I’d be willing to bet that Jon Robinson , vrabel  and  Amy Adams will be focusing a tad more on this QB battle. They can love Mariota all they want , but if the trend continues how are you going to explain starting him over RT to your fans , team and the media ? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...