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Extend Mike McCarthy?


incognito_man

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11 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

What makes Kamara so special?  It isn't just because he's a great receiving back.  But because he's a damn good RB too.  He can run AND catch the ball.  Any offense could utilzie it.  Can Ty Montgomery be as productive as a receiver in New Orleans?   Possibly, but is he even half as effective Kamara?  Absolutely not.  There's no threat of Montgomery as a runner.  None.  Teams don't respect it.  It's like Kuhn as a runner.  Teams don't respect them.  It makes it easier to defend.

I'd argue its the system and his usage.

Kamara is averaging 4.4 ypc this year. Ty is 4.8 for his career. Heck, Ingram is averaging more ypc and ypt than Kamara this year. He's just not being used as much.

This reminds me of an argument I've had on here about two of our TEs. Graham and Finley. Statistically at one point of their careers they were nearly identical in catch%, ypt, and TD% yet Graham was an allpro and Finley was a whipping boy.

IMO Sean Payton is an expert at doing something "pretty good" enough that it works "special".

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I hate everything about this thread. All Gutenkunst needs to do to find out what he should do about Mike McCarthy is call Aaron Rodgers into his office and ask him what he'd prefer. Thats the Offense. Pettine has the Defense going the right way. One more offseason to fill the holes.

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1 hour ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

Adams had 25% of the targets yesterday, so it is not like they ignored him.

25% is fairly low for a top WR/pass game target.  Rodgers himself has said Davante needs to be a 10-15 target per game guy.

Adams is 26% on the year, Hopkins is 32%, Julio Jones 29%.  

I think @Packerraymond is arguing for Adams to be used like that, and for Graham to be more in the 20% target share rather than the 15% he's at right now.

I'm ok with Davante's usage after watching him not really do much vs Howard.  I don't want to throw at Howard 1/4 of the time anyway.  Graham should have been getting looks though.

 

Still, 28 attempts is not a lot of attempts.  Somebody is gonna be having some pretty bare options at that few attempts.  Could have been a drive by drive type thing where things were clicking targeting MVS due to how the coverage shaped up.  Other drives were just successful runs, etc.

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I think it's safe to say that we under utilize the running backs in the pass game.  I don't know if I blame it on Rodgers or not,.. it just seems to be something the Packers have somewhat phased out of their offense over the years.  I think when they have a skilled pass catcher out of the backfield they have used it some, but it seems they are using it less and less.  I also do not think it has been a strength of Rodgers .. for whatever reason he is not very accurate at times when throwing to the backs.  I wonder if it's something they just don't spend much practice time on.  McCarthy is the head coach though .. he can change the focus back to the screen game, and various passes to the backs whenever he wants.  It's not like Rodgers has this iron claw hold on the playbook.   

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12 minutes ago, wgbeethree said:

I'd argue its the system and his usage.

Kamara is averaging 4.4 ypc this year. Ty is 4.8 for his career. Heck, Ingram is averaging more ypc and ypt than Kamara this year. He's just not being used as much.

This reminds me of an argument I've had on here about two of our TEs. Graham and Finley. Statistically at one point of their careers they were nearly identical in catch%, ypt, and TD% yet Graham was an allpro and Finley was a whipping boy.

IMO Sean Payton is an expert at doing something "pretty good" enough that it works "special".

Yes, so much yes.

Too much usage seems to depend on Rodgers evaluation of their worthiness.  Sure inexperienced guys can make mistakes.  Like J'Mon Moore missing that read in the slot.  But overall it seems to have a detrimental effect on in game rhythm and their overall growth.  MVS is getting looks, but the talent level there is sky high.  Not every player is like that.

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2 minutes ago, ChaRisMa said:

I hate everything about this thread. All Gutenkunst needs to do to find out what he should do about Mike McCarthy is call Aaron Rodgers into his office and ask him what he'd prefer. Thats the Offense. Pettine has the Defense going the right way. One more offseason to fill the holes.

Agreed .. hopefully Gute is getting feedback from lots of people.  He needs to be in tune with that locker room.  He just needs to have the pulse of this roster, and a good place to start is with the guy making 30+ mil per year.

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7 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

This is the entire point 😂

All that talk about firing Payton and now look at where the Saints are because they didn't actually...fire Payton.

But what makes you think that McCarthy is going to find the Packers bouncing back?  You're making this argument because the Saints are currently sitting at 8-1.  Are you making this argument if they're 4-4-1?  No.

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4 minutes ago, wgbeethree said:

I'd argue its the system and his usage.

Kamara is averaging 4.4 ypc this year. Ty is 4.8 for his career. Heck, Ingram is averaging more ypc and ypt than Kamara this year. He's just not being used as much.

This reminds me of an argument I've had on here about two of our TEs. Graham and Finley. Statistically at one point of their careers they were nearly identical in catch%, ypt, and TD% yet Graham was an allpro and Finley was a whipping boy.

IMO Sean Payton is an expert at doing something "pretty good" enough that it works "special".

I dunno how you could watch kamara and not see that he's special and that Montgomery isn't.  Kamara would be a stud on any team.  He'd be a way better version of Aaron Jones on this team, AND play the montgomery role way better, AND add his own dimension to the offense. An obvious core contributor.  MM and Rodgers wouldn't be able to mess that up no matter how bad you think they are at getting RBs the football in space.  He would be used like Cobb in Cobb's best seasons, plus be able to run the ball really really well, which Cobb never did.

AT THE SAME TIME:

@CWood21 I dunno how you could watch the Saints with Travaris Cadet and Tim Hightower and Pierre Thomas over the past 10 years and not realize that Drew Brees and Sean Payton are exceptional at using RBs.  They would turn Montgomery into a highly productive receiving back because he has those skills and they could turn most anyone into a productive receiving back.

 

This would be a really close race as far as RB receiving yards if Kamara were on GB and Montgomery on NO. 

It wouldn't, however, be close as to which was the better player since Montgomery is just a cog in a machine.  The NO machine is simply tuned to use that cog really well, and the GB machine is designed to basically ignore it. 

Kamara is a different kind of player.  He's not a cog.  He's a foundational piece of an offense for any team.  Just like MM built stuff around Finley, he would build things for Kamara.

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2 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

Agreed .. hopefully Gute is getting feedback from lots of people.  He needs to be in tune with that locker room.  He just needs to have the pulse of this roster, and a good place to start is with the guy making 30+ mil per year.

He ONLY needs Aaron's opinion. Mike isn't teaching Aaron anymore. Either Aaron likes Mikes ideas and offensive game plans or he feels the Offense needs a new direction or even if it is just a new voice. Joel Philbin could be our HC next year, you know?

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14 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

25% is fairly low for a top WR/pass game target.  Rodgers himself has said Davante needs to be a 10-15 target per game guy.

Adams is 26% on the year, Hopkins is 32%, Julio Jones 29%.  

I think @Packerraymond is arguing for Adams to be used like that, and for Graham to be more in the 20% target share rather than the 15% he's at right now.

I'm ok with Davante's usage after watching him not really do much vs Howard.  I don't want to throw at Howard 1/4 of the time anyway.  Graham should have been getting looks though.

 

Still, 28 attempts is not a lot of attempts.  Somebody is gonna be having some pretty bare options at that few attempts.  Could have been a drive by drive type thing where things were clicking targeting MVS due to how the coverage shaped up.  Other drives were just successful runs, etc.

I think it is one thing when playing a contested game, and another when playing a team like the Dolphins.

Against the 49ers Adams had 16 targets out of 46 attempts which put him up at 35%, which was appropriate because the game was in question and we needed to lean on him.

Against the Patriots he had 9 targets out of 43 attempts for 21%.  I put this on double coverage with Gilmore following him.  

The point I am making is better teams will scheme to take him out of the game.  The way around that is develop your younger receivers so the defense has to think about them.  You don't get there by giving Adams 35% to 53% of the targets, which is what 10 to 15 would have been.  The true path to failure is to go one dimensional like that.

The number of targets needs to be evaluated in the context of the number of plays in the game, and the game situation.

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7 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

But what makes you think that McCarthy is going to find the Packers bouncing back?  You're making this argument because the Saints are currently sitting at 8-1.  Are you making this argument if they're 4-4-1?  No.

😂

Well duh. 

It's obvious it would have been dumb to fire Payton. They are NOT 4-4-1. They are 8-1.

It's obvious the saints had a roster talent problem, not a coaching problem. See what happens when the roster gets a talent injection?

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1 minute ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

The point I am making is better teams will scheme to take him out of the game.  The way around that is develop you younger receivers so the defense has to think about them.  You don't get there by giving Adams 35% to 53% of the targets, which is what 10 to 15 would have been.  The true path to failure is to go one dimensional like that.

The number of targets needs to be evaluated in the context of the number of plays in the game, and the game situation.

Agreed 100%.  It would be interesting to see the Packers go back to scripting the first series or 15 plays again just to throw the defense off guard and get some different looks by putting more on film.

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