Shanedorf Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 34 minutes ago, CWood21 said: It's also easier to change a coaching staff than it is to overhaul a roster. New coaches always overhaul the roster. Not to the extent that fire-sale Gruden is doing out in Oakland, but every single time your replace an HC, there's a huge change-over in roster. So its not an either or situation - its always both. And that pertains to OC's and DC's too as they want their kind of players and the organization isn't going to hamstring them and tell them "no". What qualified HC candidate is gonna accept those kind of restrictions on the roster and the assistants ? The one guy who I'd dump is the QB coach, Frank Cignetti. I believe that was the critical mistake that GB made during the transition in NOT giving AR an AR kind of coach. And Rodgers even made some thinly veiled comments at the time of the hire. Cignetti is a good coach, he's just a lousy fit for Aaron Rodgers had Tom Clements and then Van Pelt - both former QBs. MM should have given AR more say in that particular hire because AR is an extremely cerebral human, and handing him just another Pittsburgh crony was a strategic mistake. AR needs and wants a former QB to work with him and act as the liaison with MM/Philbin/Hostler. Cignetti is an old-school retread and a terrible fit for New Age Aaron. Kurt Warner, Rich Gannon, Steve Young, there had to be some better choices out there to work with AR during the next stretch of his illustrious career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Slinky said: So even if he's only "part" of the problem, there doesn't need to be a change? Where did I say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 1 hour ago, CWood21 said: It's also easier to change a coaching staff than it is to overhaul a roster. We've already replaced Ted Thompson last offseason, and the results this year have been underwhelming to say the least. How many coaching changes haven't involved a roster overhaul? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesehawk Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 1 hour ago, CWood21 said: It's also easier to change a coaching staff than it is to overhaul a roster. We've already replaced Ted Thompson last offseason, and the results this year have been underwhelming to say the least. Regardless of the results THIS year, I think it's safe to say the firing of Ted and hiring of Gute looks good in year 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, Cheesehawk said: Regardless of the results THIS year, I think it's safe to say the firing of Ted and hiring of Gute looks good in year 1. It's way too early to be saying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesehawk Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: It's way too early to be saying that. To say that it looks like a good move in the first year? As a whole system, yeah a little early to be saying that. But based on what we've seen so far, I can comfortably say I'm happier with Gute this year then I was with TT in the past 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Cheesehawk said: To say that it looks like a good move in the first year? As a whole system, yeah a little early to be saying that. But based on what we've seen so far, I can comfortably say I'm happier with Gute this year then I was with TT in the past 3. Let me put it this way, if Ted was still the GM and did EXACTLY the same things Gute did, the view of our GM would be VERY different. IDK how that can even be denied, even though it will. I like the direction and style of Gute more, but the "results" of the season haven't done **** to prove he's better, even though I do actually believe he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 32 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: New coaches always overhaul the roster. Not to the extent that fire-sale Gruden is doing out in Oakland, but every single time your replace an HC, there's a huge change-over in roster. So its not an either or situation - its always both. And that pertains to OC's and DC's too as they want their kind of players and the organization isn't going to hamstring them and tell them "no". Except they don't. There's really only a few teams in which the coaches have final say in terms of personnel decisions. I know Pete Carroll, Jon Gruden, and Bill Belichick have final say in terms of player personnel, and I believe Andy Reid does as well. But the majority of HCs don't have final say in terms of player personnel. Kyle Shanahan in San Francisco, Mike Zimmer in Minnesota, etc. don't have that same kind of decision making. At the end of the day, the GMs are the one making those decisions. You hire your coaching staff to fit your mold. And I'd make the argument that there's two types of coaching changes. There's those where those when there's a organizational philosophical chase as was the case when we moved on from Mike Sherman to Mike McCarthy. And there's those when you're moving on from a coach you've had like the Titans did this past year with Mike Vrabel. 38 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: What qualified HC candidate is gonna accept those kind of restrictions on the roster and the assistants ? In theory, your GM and HC should be on the same wavelength. If they're not, you're asking for there to be issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 40 minutes ago, Cheesehawk said: To say that it looks like a good move in the first year? As a whole system, yeah a little early to be saying that. But based on what we've seen so far, I can comfortably say I'm happier with Gute this year then I was with TT in the past 3. I think a huge portion of that, is this fanbase having Gute colored glasses on. It's fine to be excited about a guy but so far we're still a team trying to straddle a fence between rebuilding and going for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 13 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: I think a huge portion of that, is this fanbase having Gute colored glasses on. It's fine to be excited about a guy but so far we're still a team trying to straddle a fence between rebuilding and going for it. Correct - which I think contributes to Cobb's comment about "the mood" around the team now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 I think we are already seeing a roster overhaul mode, a LOT of teds picks are gone this year, Gute really wants to change this roster into his. It's going to be a very big offseason for him, he's going to have a lot to work with. I'm optimistic about his more aggressive approach, I think we will see a lot more players acquired in FA next year, this year it was hindered from the Rodgers contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsibly Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 19 hours ago, cannondale said: Sitton Lang Cook Nelson got old Tretter Cobb became elderly Hyde Hayward Peppers HHCD became full of himself Matthews became elderly Perry became useless Randall became a headcase That's just off the top of my head. Who have we added ? I have no idea what this is supposed to prove, or mean. I said there's plenty of talent on the offensive side of the ball and you listed off some guys who haven't been on the team in years and defensive players. One thing has nothing to do with the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 So let me get this straight. MM's offense is too simple, yet Rodgers has a hard time getting on the same page and trusting WR's and the answer is a more complicated offense ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Dsibly said: I have no idea what this is supposed to prove, or mean. I said there's plenty of talent on the offensive side of the ball and you listed off some guys who haven't been on the team in years and defensive players. One thing has nothing to do with the other. You say coach, I say talent. That's a list of my proof. Where's your proof ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 2 hours ago, CWood21 said: Except they don't. There's really only a few teams in which the coaches have final say in terms of personnel decisions. How can you be so obtuse ? Nobody said anything about final say on roster decisions - but every single time a team brings in a new HC- there's a roster overhaul. The new coach doesn't specifically tell the GM he must draft BillyBob Jr from Upper Slobovia State - the coach and the GM sat down and talked about the current roster and what needed attention and what type of player the new HC desires to fill those positions. Then the GM + Scouts + Pro Personnel go out and look for those guys. Its certainly a part of the interview process, but its also part of daily operations all season long. Pretty sure this stuff was on the FF Mod-test ( but then again, we've never seen your scores) New HC = roster and assistant coach overhaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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