Ragnar Danneskjold Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Cheech said: Last year sucked because MM expected his backup QB to run the same offense as his HOF QB. Last year sucked because we didn't have any viable options as back up QB. I personally don't think Hundley can run any NFL offense as he doesn't appear to have the vision or accuracy needed. Who was responsible for the missed talent evaluation, I don't know. That concerns me more than many of the other issues people raise. Ability to evaluate talent is what makes or breaks a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_gb Posted October 18, 2018 Author Share Posted October 18, 2018 14 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said: Last year sucked because we didn't have any viable options as back up QB. I personally don't think Hundley can run any NFL offense as he doesn't appear to have the vision or accuracy needed. Who was responsible for the missed talent evaluation, I don't know. That concerns me more than many of the other issues people raise. Ability to evaluate talent is what makes or breaks a team. Talent evaluators bring in talent and coaches coach them up. You can't tell me ALL of Ted Thompsons misses ended up being misses because he evaluated wrong and that MM takes no responsibility for their lack of getting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 1 hour ago, incognito_man said: Yes. The fact that higher drafted players are better is very, very well established. Some, yes. All, no. It is still an inexact science, so stating it as fact is inaccurate. It gives a team a better chance, but it is far from a guarantee. See..Buffalo, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, Detroit, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 45 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said: Sure, I am. I think when you look at other teams though, there is evidence that the teams that go for a period of time without a franchise QB and thus draft at the top of the round end up with better non QB rosters. Look at Minnesota and how many of their good players were accumulated on down years. Or the Rams- they didn't draft Aaron Donald after a great year. Some teams will find success, but not all. See...Buffalo, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, Detroit, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 48 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said: Sure, I am. I think when you look at other teams though, there is evidence that the teams that go for a period of time without a franchise QB and thus draft at the top of the round end up with better non QB rosters. Look at Minnesota and how many of their good players were accumulated on down years. Or the Rams- they didn't draft Aaron Donald after a great year. 23 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said: Who was responsible for the missed talent evaluation, I don't know. That concerns me more than many of the other issues people raise. Ability to evaluate talent is what makes or breaks a team. So which is it, drafting earlier in rounds or being able to evaluate talent. You seem to be contradicting your stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Danneskjold Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, squire12 said: So which is it, drafting earlier in rounds or being able to evaluate talent. You seem to be contradicting your stance. Not really. People miss on draft picks, they hit on draft picks. I would argue that statistically, picks at the top of the first round hit more than in later rounds. Hundley was a fifth round pick that didn't hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Danneskjold Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 16 minutes ago, Nick_gb said: Talent evaluators bring in talent and coaches coach them up. You can't tell me ALL of Ted Thompsons misses ended up being misses because he evaluated wrong and that MM takes no responsibility for their lack of getting it. Not saying that at all. At some level, the coach is a talent evaluator as well. He decides which player plays, which player sits. Both coaches and scouts evaluate talent, many times in different settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Danneskjold Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 12 minutes ago, squire12 said: Some teams will find success, but not all. See...Buffalo, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, Detroit, etc Would their rosters have an equal amount of talent if they drafted consistently in the mid 20's instead of earlier? You seem to be saying they would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 13 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said: Would their rosters have an equal amount of talent if they drafted consistently in the mid 20's instead of earlier? You seem to be saying they would. We don't know. That is the point. You stated it as if it were a fact that picking higher ensured a more talented roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Danneskjold Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 1 minute ago, squire12 said: We don't know. That is the point. You stated it as if it were a fact that picking higher ensured a more talented roster. No, I am arguing that for a given front office, the odds are they will end up with a more talented roster if they pick higher. I would also argue that a team without a franchise QB has more money to go after free agents, giving them a better chance to improve as well. You are confusing the situation by comparing different front offices of differing abilities. You can feel that draft position wouldn't matter, that is your choice. You could even argue that having more money to spend in free agency wouldn't give a team a better chance to improve as well because some teams never improve. I think you are wrong though. So we circle back to the original point. I reject the argument that what happens when a team loses the HOF QB shows what the coach's result would be if his team never had one because the presence of that HOF QB, while beneficial on the field, disadvantages the team on draft day and in remaining available cap space which are important in building the rest of the roster. It is a poor indicator of the coaches ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 1 hour ago, squire12 said: Some, yes. All, no. It is still an inexact science, so stating it as fact is inaccurate. It gives a team a better chance, but it is far from a guarantee. See..Buffalo, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, Detroit, etc. All of whom suffer(ed) from bad coaching. It's not really inexact that higher draft picks yield better players. That's objectively true. A team can have a better roster but still be worse due to other reasons, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jleisher Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Ok, first the HC question. If the Packers miss the playoffs, then yes, you must consider releasing MM. John Defilippo is the favorite flavor for most, but I want to add two other names. Chris Petersen University of Washington and Dave Toub, Asst. HC/ST K.C. Chiefs. As for UFA's, Ha Ha, Wilkerson and Kendricks in that order. Cobb, if he takes a team friendly contract. No to CMJ, at this time. Now, the draft picks. Using Fanspeaks.com and selecting from their simulator using NFL mock for player rankings, I came up with this draft. I know, players will move up or down before the draft is held. Scouting information came from Walters Football and or Draftblaster. 1.#19. Devin White ILB LSU (Why) Adds more strength to the ILB rotation, he's a thumper, former RB that devastates the ball carriers. Teams with Martinez, Burks and possible Ryan. 1.#30. Montez Sweat Edge Miss. ST. (Why) Plays well against the run and is dynamic pass rusher. (CMJ's replacement) 2.#19. Chauncey Gardner-Johnson S/CB Florida 3.#18. Michael Deiter OL WI 4.#19. Jalen Jelks Edge Oregon 5.#19. Chris Linstrom C/G Boston College 6.#16. Jachai Polite Edge Florida 6.#19. Rashard Lawrence DL LSU 7.#19. Derwin Gray G/T Maryland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 41 minutes ago, jleisher said: Ok, first the HC question. If the Packers miss the playoffs, then yes, you must consider releasing MM. John Defilippo is the favorite flavor for most, but I want to add two other names. Chris Petersen University of Washington and Dave Toub, Asst. HC/ST K.C. Chiefs. As for UFA's, Ha Ha, Wilkerson and Kendricks in that order. Cobb, if he takes a team friendly contract. No to CMJ, at this time. Now, the draft picks. Using Fanspeaks.com and selecting from their simulator using NFL mock for player rankings, I came up with this draft. I know, players will move up or down before the draft is held. Scouting information came from Walters Football and or Draftblaster. 1.#19. Devin White ILB LSU (Why) Adds more strength to the ILB rotation, he's a thumper, former RB that devastates the ball carriers. Teams with Martinez, Burks and possible Ryan. 1.#30. Montez Sweat Edge Miss. ST. (Why) Plays well against the run and is dynamic pass rusher. (CMJ's replacement) 2.#19. Chauncey Gardner-Johnson S/CB Florida 3.#18. Michael Deiter OL WI 4.#19. Jalen Jelks Edge Oregon 5.#19. Chris Linstrom C/G Boston College 6.#16. Jachai Polite Edge Florida 6.#19. Rashard Lawrence DL LSU 7.#19. Derwin Gray G/T Maryland John Defilippo hype is reminding me a lot of the Hue Jackson, Bill Lazor, etc hype. Obviously that's not an indictment, all offensive minded, hot shot, OCs are going to get that hype, I just urge people to pump the brakes on that hype. I'm not totally ready to forgive Petersen for his role in Sam Ukwuachu, though most seem entirely willing to let that slide or minimally pin it on Briles exclusively. Please stop calling him CMJ. Don't spend premium picks on ILBs. There's no use in this defense for a 245lb Edge guy. You need bigger guys in this scheme. Not seeing Jelks as anything Jess than a 2nd rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jleisher Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 11 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: John Defilippo hype is reminding me a lot of the Hue Jackson, Bill Lazor, etc hype. Obviously that's not an indictment, all offensive minded, hot shot, OCs are going to get that hype, I just urge people to pump the brakes on that hype. I'm not totally ready to forgive Petersen for his role in Sam Ukwuachu, though most seem entirely willing to let that slide or minimally pin it on Briles exclusively. Please stop calling him CMJ. Don't spend premium picks on ILBs. There's no use in this defense for a 245lb Edge guy. You need bigger guys in this scheme. Not seeing Jelks as anything Jess than a 2nd rounder. Don't understand the big deal of calling him CMJ (Clay Matthews Jr.), that's on you. Could go Cameron Smith USC in rd 2-4. Thanks for you thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 14 hours ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said: Last year sucked because we didn't have any viable options as back up QB. I personally don't think Hundley can run any NFL offense as he doesn't appear to have the vision or accuracy needed. Who was responsible for the missed talent evaluation, I don't know. That concerns me more than many of the other issues people raise. Ability to evaluate talent is what makes or breaks a team. I wonder where the error with Hundley was as well. We know that Mac isn't going to throw any of his players under the bus. He backed Graham Harrell as the sole back-up, when we all saw that was an inadequate plan. But we also saw Hundley play very well in preseason games. Was it simply guys like Abbrederis, Allison, Janis being better than guys that would be on the street in a couple of weeks, thus making their QB look better too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.