Looking to the future draft.. (yes already)

[Kip Smithers]

Haven’t you guys learnt by now that drafting is an absolute crapshoot. It involves a lot of luck 

[YogiBiz]

9 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Haven’t you guys learnt by now that drafting is an absolute crapshoot. It involves a lot of luck 

Ehh, to us yeah, but I'm sure the professionals feel differently. 

[Go_Giants]

23 hours ago, YogiBiz said:

How am I ignoring your comment. If you knew anything about the '07 draft class you could tell exactly every player was by the description I gave of each of them. Which if I'm not mistaken, you asked to compare the two drafts. 

A class that featured Steve Smith (who i take back what I said about having 3 good years, he only had 1). A TE, Kevin Boss, who did not make it past his rookie contract because he was JAG that Eli made look top flight (see his time in Oakland if you need a reminder) and he was pretty injury prone as well. A player he, Jerry Reese, drafted to play Linebacker, Zac DeOssie, who was not good and only salvaged his career cause he's a good long snapper. A first round corner, Aaron Ross, who was good for one playoff run, and rode that to two new contracts. A running back, Ahmad Bradshaw, that was crucial to our superbowl run (besides not taking into the account is he was in a committee with one of the best O-Line's in football at the time) but had a total of two 1000+ yards rushing behind good O-Lines. (He never again replicated the 4.5YPC he had in his limited touches his rookie year). 

Also, I never said that finding a franchise QB is easy, but its even harder to create a good football when you waste picks on average to bad players. Ask Jerry Reese, or every Browns GM in the past two decades. 

This was a very bad draft class. We got four starters from it, yes, but they were all average to bad starters. Compared to last years class we have four players already contributing more than those players above. 

Are you simply too old to remember anything clearly, or has dementia taken its hold on you? Or are you so upset we didn't take Sam Darnold who has stuggled against every team he's played, except two of the worst pass defenses in the NFL, Colts & Lions? Take those two games out he has a sub 50% (49.2%), plus outside of those two games he has a 7:9 TD:INT ratio. 

 

You are ignoring the comment by not acknowledging where in the draft they were picked and what rounds. That draft had rookies that produced and played  roles in at least one  Super Bowl winning team.  

If another team signs Kevin Boss to more money that in no way meant he was not a good player for the Giants. What matters to me is how this players played while a Giant. Kevin Boss played good enough to make Jeremey Shockey a Pro-Bowl and All-Pro player expandable. 

A major injury is what made Steve Smith a shell of himself but he was still a good player for the Giants and Steve Smith did make a Pro-Bowl.

Production is expected from the players drafted in the first first three rounds. When you get great production from the rounds drafted after, that is special.  Gettleman is most likely going to have a Top 5 draft pick, and it is not going to be surprise to anyone that his first two draft picks are going to be great, it would be a great disappointment if they were not. 

As for Sam Darnold, he plays on a bad team  with a defensive head coach and his all of his skilled position players are the very meaning of JAG. Till the Giants get a franchise QB, the future of the Jets is a lot brighter than ours. 

 

[GmenSeattle]

Anyone know what the OL talent in the draft is like?  Or just the strength of the various positions are?  Personally I think we need to shore up the lines and then work on the rest.  Eli isn't going anywhere unless we eat a LOT of money.

[Go_Giants]

1 hour ago, GmenSeattle said:

Anyone know what the OL talent in the draft is like?  Or just the strength of the various positions are?  Personally I think we need to shore up the lines and then work on the rest.  Eli isn't going anywhere unless we eat a LOT of money.

I agree on the need for an OL, the first things we should look for in this draft is a franchise QB, If none is there then we need to get a tackle, preferable a LT to finally upgrade this OL.  

[Acgott]

2 hours ago, GmenSeattle said:

Anyone know what the OL talent in the draft is like?  Or just the strength of the various positions are?  Personally I think we need to shore up the lines and then work on the rest.  Eli isn't going anywhere unless we eat a LOT of money.

We can cut him next year for just $6M in dead money and a cap savings in 17M

[YogiBiz]

3 hours ago, Go_Giants said:

You are ignoring the comment by not acknowledging where in the draft they were picked and what rounds. That draft had rookies that produced and played  roles in at least one  Super Bowl winning team.  

If another team signs Kevin Boss to more money that in no way meant he was not a good player for the Giants. What matters to me is how this players played while a Giant. Kevin Boss played good enough to make Jeremey Shockey a Pro-Bowl and All-Pro player expandable. 

A major injury is what made Steve Smith a shell of himself but he was still a good player for the Giants and Steve Smith did make a Pro-Bowl.

Production is expected from the players drafted in the first first three rounds. When you get great production from the rounds drafted after, that is special.  Gettleman is most likely going to have a Top 5 draft pick, and it is not going to be surprise to anyone that his first two draft picks are going to be great, it would be a great disappointment if they were not. 

As for Sam Darnold, he plays on a bad team  with a defensive head coach and his all of his skilled position players are the very meaning of JAG. Till the Giants get a franchise QB, the future of the Jets is a lot brighter than ours. 

 

Excuse me for ignoring what exact player they picked. Sam Darnold is playing on a bad team yes, but he doesn't look good there's promising moments. Is that going to be enough in the long run? I'm of the mindset we avoided picking a bad player. Maybe he proves me wrong and he becomes a good QB, but I still stand by my thoughts of him being bad. 

Also you say that about Boss like he got huge, top tier TE money, which he didn't he was making less 4M the first year of his deal. He was obviously expendable and easily replaceable. Boss also battled a long list of ailments over his final two years. 

You also make it sound like it was only one major injury that de-railed Smith's career. He was injury prone throughout his time at USC and during his first few years in blue he battled injuries. Drafting an injury prone player is the same as drafting a bad player, in my opinion.

Also if want to be honest the only people that contributed to the Giants for more than a few seasons (Smith did play well over a few games before his Pro-Bowl year), where Ahmad and Zak. All either picked 20 or earlier in their respective rounds. Also can you call barely holding your own (not getting beat ragid, but not winning consistently) in the playoffs contributing?

We used a fourth round pick on Long Snapper. Come on dog. DeOssie has to be one of the highest drafted pure long snappers in history (if only he was drafted to play that position and not linebacker). 

I also want to say we five winning seasons during Manning's career. But the franchise QB is the end all be all and is a must get? Nah bro you have to build a team and then find your guy that fits with what you need. You make that guy exceed in any/every way you can. 

Reese consistently felt he was the smartest guy in the room and it came back to bite him in the butt when these "Projects" he invested so much in; also all because you hit on a few projects doesn't mean you will on all of them. Maybe he should of thought about drafting players who could actually play football. 

[Giants4eva]

19 hours ago, GmenSeattle said:

Anyone know what the OL talent in the draft is like?  Or just the strength of the various positions are?  Personally I think we need to shore up the lines and then work on the rest.  Eli isn't going anywhere unless we eat a LOT of money.

Honestly theres always top talent with the big beef up front. Were the fattest country on Earth, why wouldn't there be talent ? LOL... Nah but seriously looking at what's available, I would say in no particular order u have Trey Adams / Washington,  Dalton Risner / Kansas St. , David Edwards / Wisconsin, Ross Pierschbacher , and a few others whom can cut it. I really like one kid out of Stanford in Jesse Burkett. I know hes a center but im sorry John Halapio even when he played sucks.

[minutemancl]

On 10/30/2018 at 4:11 PM, Kip Smithers said:

Haven’t you guys learnt by now that drafting is an absolute crapshoot. It involves a lot of luck 

It is a bit of a crapshoot, and definitely involves some luck, but moreso it involves consideration of outside of football factors. I guarantee you non-football factors factor into a pick "busting" more than we know. And this is so wide ranging and sometimes unknowable that it is viewed as getting unlucky. You don't know how people in this kid's family are going to react to him getting rich and famous instantly, how the kid is going to respond to that, how the kid reacts to moving away from a town/city he has been in forever, how he will do away from his friends and family, how he does when he has more freedom than in college, etc. Injuries are the part I would say boil down to "bad luck". I don't think doctors know yet how to determine if an athlete is prone to a torn acl or something down the line. Then of course there are potential off the field injuries, like what happened to Chad Jones.

[minutemancl]

20 hours ago, GmenSeattle said:

Anyone know what the OL talent in the draft is like?  Or just the strength of the various positions are?  Personally I think we need to shore up the lines and then work on the rest.  Eli isn't going anywhere unless we eat a LOT of money.

Eh, the dead money hit isn't too bad if we cut Eli next year. It would put 6.25 million in dead money, but save us 17 million. I don't think Eli is on the squad next year. 

The bulk of the talent in this coming year's draft- both in terms of depth and top end talent- is on both sides of the line. It is a good draft to need DL and OL. Never forget that Chris Snee, Shaun O'hara, David Diehl, Rich Seubert, and Kareem Mckenzie were a 2nd, UDFA, 5th, UDFA, and 3rd round picks respectively. You do not need to spend 5 day 1, day 2 picks on OL to get a good one. We've got a great (maybe not yet, but soon) LG and a serviceable LT. I think Jamon Brown, who we just picked up, is an average-above average RG. He only got cut because the Rams starting guards are playing out of their minds and may be the 2 best guards in football right now. We need 2-3 more pieces and I do think Gettleman is capable of getting them. I hope he can do it this offseason.

[YogiBiz]

39 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

Eh, the dead money hit isn't too bad if we cut Eli next year. It would put 6.25 million in dead money, but save us 17 million. I don't think Eli is on the squad next year. 

The bulk of the talent in this coming year's draft- both in terms of depth and top end talent- is on both sides of the line. It is a good draft to need DL and OL. Never forget that Chris Snee, Shaun O'hara, David Diehl, Rich Seubert, and Kareem Mckenzie were a 2nd, UDFA, 5th, UDFA, and 3rd round picks respectively. You do not need to spend 5 day 1, day 2 picks on OL to get a good one. We've got a great (maybe not yet, but soon) LG and a serviceable LT. I think Jamon Brown, who we just picked up, is an average-above average RG. He only got cut because the Rams starting guards are playing out of their minds and may be the 2 best guards in football right now. We need 2-3 more pieces and I do think Gettleman is capable of getting them. I hope he can do it this offseason.

I've been praying we take Elgton Jenkins in the second. 

If not him I wouldn't mind a stab at Jordan/Risner in round 3. 

[Giants4eva]

51 minutes ago, YogiBiz said:

I've been praying we take Elgton Jenkins in the second. 

If not him I wouldn't mind a stab at Jordan/Risner in round 3. 

Jenkins is a solid pick. But Risner is flat out awesome. He will not be there in Rd 3. Hes gone very high in Rd 2 or possibly late Rd 1. Top 3 OL from what I been watching in college would be Greg Little, Jonah Williams and then Risner.

[YogiBiz]

20 minutes ago, Giants4eva said:

Jenkins is a solid pick. But Risner is flat out awesome. He will not be there in Rd 3. Hes gone very high in Rd 2 or possibly late Rd 1. Top 3 OL from what I been watching in college would be Greg Little, Jonah Williams and then Risner.

Risner is a Center, he bullied a bunch of bad opponents (I know this sounds repetitive, but the truth often is), and when he went up against actual talent on the outside (Montez Sweat, MISS ST.) he got man handled.  

[Giants4eva]

26 minutes ago, YogiBiz said:

Risner is a Center, he bullied a bunch of bad opponents (I know this sounds repetitive, but the truth often is), and when he went up against actual talent on the outside (Montez Sweat, MISS ST.) he got man handled.  

Ya Im aware he's a center but also lines up at tackle, so is Jesse Burkett out of Stanford. But Risner can line up at tackle which I think is an absolute disaster area for us. If Jenkins or Burkett were taken with our number 2, I cant disagree but if Risner is there... dudes a monster. Him or David Edwards. We need a RT so bad its disgusting. Also we don't have a 3rd RD pick as of now due to drafting Sam Beal in the Supplemental Draft. Hopefully we can allocate something during the draft to change that.

[YogiBiz]

1 hour ago, Giants4eva said:

Ya Im aware he's a center but also lines up at tackle, so is Jesse Burkett out of Stanford. But Risner can line up at tackle which I think is an absolute disaster area for us. If Jenkins or Burkett were taken with our number 2, I cant disagree but if Risner is there... dudes a monster. Him or David Edwards. We need a RT so bad its disgusting. Also we don't have a 3rd RD pick as of now due to drafting Sam Beal in the Supplemental Draft. Hopefully we can allocate something during the draft to change that.

Oh yeah I forgot about that selection. But David would be an awesome pickup.