Week 7 GDT: Los Angeles Rams at San Francisco 49ers

[TecmoSuperJoe]

21 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

The characterization is spot on though. This is a results-driven league. Up to this point, Shanny has put an a ill-prepared, sloppy, undisciplined football team on the field, too many times to count. No one can ever complain about his scheme. But at some point, you have to put the clipboard down and RUN THE ENTIRE TEAM. Find someone you trust to run the offense and get this disarray of a team in order. We are about to break the NFL record for turnover differential against. That's totally unacceptable. To lose because you lack talent is one thing. I think any real fan could accept that. But to lose week after week in same sloppy, mistake-prone fashion is a reflection of the man running the show. 

I just meant what the guy said about his attitude. The "has no fire and is more concerned with scheme and his ego" comment. I know the team has looked sloppy, but I don't think that necessarily means Kyle doesn't care about the discipline of the team to a good degree. I mean a week ago in Green Bay they didn't look so sloppy.

[J-ALL-DAY]

Playing a mistake free type of football also has a lot to do with the QBs running your team. While yes there have been fumbles by Juice Check and Reed and others, it comes down to mainly the turnovers from Hoyer/Beathard the last two years that have led to a lot of these losses. A coach can just game plan and scheme a inferior team to have a chance at the end to win, but then it comes down to executing and having enough talent to get through it. We have had more close losses than any other team the last two years I believe. And how many of those games came down to the QB just not being able to get it done at the end of the game? What was the major difference between Hoyer/Beathard compared to Jimmy G? Well, it was one QB was clutch down the stretch and drove us down the field three times to win, while the other two failed on numerous occasions. Beathard had a shot to beat LAC/AZ/GB and ended up turning the ball in every instance. Is that really on the HC? You can say Beathard was his hand picked QB, and I would agree with that, but it also comes down to Beathard being able to come through for the team when it matters the most. When Lynch/Shanny took this team over, this was basically a complete rebuild. The talent was bleak and it was just down to Shanny being able to game plan well enough to compete on most Sunday's. I will say the penalties have been bad at times and the turnovers are brutal, but I haven't seen many games where Shanny has Hue Jackson'd a game down the stretch. I just see it that he is dealing with sub-par talent and hasn't had the best of QB play minus his 7 or 8 games with Jimmy G. 

What I will say is that this is overall a young front office/coaching staff and they aren't the greatest at building confidence of the youngsters. They don't put the players in their best positions to succeed and are quick to hurt their confidence when they are having a rough game or two. As @y2lamanaki pointed out, it is a bad look when most of the 2nd year players are regressing, and probably not a coincidence it is happening on the defensive side of the ball. Maybe it is the scheme, or the lack of edge rushers that has the defense overcompensating everything, but this needs to change as the season progresses. We need to see more growth from them and quite frankly let them go through their growing pains.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

This is from Cam Inman:

Quote

Beathard hasn’t produced a turnover-free outing in nine career starts. His interception/fumble totals in each start: 0/2, 2/0, 1/0, 1/0, 1/1, (8-start intermission by Garoppolo), 2/1, 2/2/ 1/0, 2/1.

I know it's not all on him, but sooner or later, if the losses keep stacking and/or Beathard can't go a game without a turnover, I don't see how you can't push back against the idea of giving Mullens an opportunity. At the very least, if it's in another blowout. Obviously Shanahan sees these guys in practice everyday, and has more experience than anyone else. Even so, I don't see how Beathard would be so much better that his job security wouldn't be in jeopardy. 

I was all for losing gracefully, and getting the number one pick. Feels like the 49ers really need to beat the Cardinals, or heads will roll. Jimmy G and McKinnon not being around shouldn't mean you can't win a game. 49ers are a defensive holding penalty away from being winless. That's crazy. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

18 minutes ago, PapaShogun said:

This is from Cam Inman:

I know it's not all on him, but sooner or later, if the losses keep stacking and/or Beathard can't go a game without a turnover, I don't see how you can't push back against the idea of giving Mullens an opportunity. At the very least, if it's in another blowout. Obviously Shanahan sees these guys in practice everyday, and has more experience than anyone else. Even so, I don't see how Beathard would be so much better that his job security wouldn't be in jeopardy. 

I was all for losing gracefully, and getting the number one pick. Feels like the 49ers really need to beat the Cardinals, or heads will roll. Jimmy G and McKinnon not being around shouldn't mean you can't win a game. 49ers are a defensive holding penalty away from being winless. That's crazy. 

Potentially a holding penalty away from having two wins as well...........Then again that would take Beathard coming through at the end, so nvm lol.

As for Beathard, he has shown enough to stick being the starter for the mean time and really the losses don't bother me. He has looked better than he did last year so that is some kind of progress at least. The turnovers no question are brutal though. That along with him having little to no pocket awareness makes the offense look worse than it really should be. I'm not sure he improves his pocket awareness ever either. Can be more careful with the ball though, no excuse for some of the turnovers. 

[N4L]

Firing Kyle 2 years into a 6 year contract would be a massive mistake that would set us back another 5+ years. 

Do these people honestly think that Jed York will go out and find someone better? I mean seriously, this is the guy that dumped harbaugh for Jim tomsula. 

What coach in their right mind would want to come here and be the 5th coach in 6 years??

The fact remains that this roster was basically an expansion team before Kyle and Lynch got here. 

Kyle is a young coach and is still learning. Give it time. People who want a top 5 play caller in the NFL to stop calling plays are also nuts. 

He needs some shakeup on his staff, there is no doubt. Saleh hasn't been as bad as he was. The defense played ok yesterday. If you think the turnovers are wearing all of us out, how do you think the defense feels?

Something has to be done, but firing Kyle would be a massive mistake and make me believe that Jed York is an incompetent, small minded human 

[J-ALL-DAY]

There is no way York fires Lynch/Shanny anytime soon. They were given those big six year deals for a reason. York knows the perception around the league of the front office, particularly him and how quickly he goes through head coaches. I mean from 14-17, we had four different head coaches! That is insane and something you can't continue doing if you are to have any success in this league. The losses suck, but it is what it is. You have crappy QB play, you will have crappy results. I don't need to win one of these toss up games in a lost season to feel better about Shanny. I just need to see growth from the young players to make me encouraged for the future. 

[Ftn49]

15 minutes ago, N4L said:

Firing Kyle 2 years into a 6 year contract would be a massive mistake that would set us back another 5+ years. 

Do these people honestly think that Jed York will go out and find someone better? I mean seriously, this is the guy that dumped harbaugh for Jim tomsula. 

What coach in their right mind would want to come here and be the 5th coach in 6 years??

The fact remains that this roster was basically an expansion team before Kyle and Lynch got here. 

Kyle is a young coach and is still learning. Give it time. People who want a top 5 play caller in the NFL to stop calling plays are also nuts. 

He needs some shakeup on his staff, there is no doubt. Saleh hasn't been as bad as he was. The defense played ok yesterday. If you think the turnovers are wearing all of us out, how do you think the defense feels?

Something has to be done, but firing Kyle would be a massive mistake and make me believe that Jed York is an incompetent, small minded human 

+1 I was in the process of writing something very similar. I agree with pretty much every part of your post. Prior to Kyle starting everyone pretty much agreed that this was a 3+ year rebuild but now after 1 1/2 years people want to jump ship? To me that would be almost as bad as the browns dumping Bill Belichick. Not that I think Kyle will necessarily be a goat but I do think he will be successful as a head coach somewhere even if it isn't here. I'd rather it be here.

The one thing I'll add as one of the most disappointing parts to me is the injuries. We've been the walking wounded for the last two years. You can't expect to be successful when you are always 5 deep on the depth chart for half the roster.   

[uk9erfan]

1 hour ago, N4L said:

Firing Kyle 2 years into a 6 year contract would be a massive mistake that would set us back another 5+ years. 

Do these people honestly think that Jed York will go out and find someone better? I mean seriously, this is the guy that dumped harbaugh for Jim tomsula. 

What coach in their right mind would want to come here and be the 5th coach in 6 years??

The fact remains that this roster was basically an expansion team before Kyle and Lynch got here. 

Kyle is a young coach and is still learning. Give it time. People who want a top 5 play caller in the NFL to stop calling plays are also nuts. 

He needs some shakeup on his staff, there is no doubt. Saleh hasn't been as bad as he was. The defense played ok yesterday. If you think the turnovers are wearing all of us out, how do you think the defense feels?

Something has to be done, but firing Kyle would be a massive mistake and make me believe that Jed York is an incompetent, small minded human 

Totally agree.

[uk9erfan]

7 hours ago, y2lamanaki said:

I'm not entirely confident that we have the right QB if we have the wrong head coach. And I am a big fan of our QB. I'm also a big fan of our head coach, though.

The change that needs to happen first is Saleh. The first clue should always be when a coordinator's system is described as "simplistic" to allow players to make plays. That never seems to work. Get a good concrete system in place with a good, proven defensive coordinator. There is nobody on that side of the ball other than Buckner who has not regressed year over year. Foster, Witherspoon, Colbert, Tartt - all guys that should be playing better, and are all somehow playing much worse (to the point where some of them look replaceable). 

I'm not worried about the other parts of the team. This offseason we set out to fix the running game and despite our lead back being lost for the whole season, we have very clearly done that. We set out to finalize the secondary with Sherman- he's been as good as can be (and certainly it's not his fault that the other three pieces regressed). But what they've set out to do, they've done. Shanahan's system is clearly fine on offense.

Fix the pass rush. Fix the defensive coordinator. And get healthy. This team will be fine in 2019.

It's just going to be exceedingly painful in 2018.

Don't know about being fine in 2019, but if we're healthy we will play better.  Other than that, very good points all of which I agree with.  

[uk9erfan]

Injuries in the secondary and lack of talent don't help, but the secondary look absolutely lost out there, as if they don't know what they should be doing, and that is not acceptable.  And that is on Saleh, not Shanahan.  Let's face facts though, we were up against the best team in football yesterday, so we stood no chance at all.  Our next four games should be closer and more competitive. so let's see how we play over the next four weeks.  Any talk of firing Shanahan is heresy bordering on lunacy.

[Gravity]

We have a good HC and a good, but unproven Qb in Garrapolo. 

Those are great pieces to have. Now i hope we start getting better at Free Agency and Drafting. I'm a pessimistic on these two parts, but still hopeful. 

Hopefully they find a new DC in the offseason. 

[757-NINER]

7 hours ago, PapaShogun said:

I just meant what the guy said about his attitude. The "has no fire and is more concerned with scheme and his ego" comment. I know the team has looked sloppy, but I don't think that necessarily means Kyle doesn't care about the discipline of the team to a good degree. I mean a week ago in Green Bay they didn't look so sloppy.

They had 3 TOs that game and left points on the field. Just because the offense was in rhythm and moving the ball doesn't mean it was clean game by any means. It was missed assignment after missed assignment on defense yet again and we had 2 fumbles and critical interception.

[757-NINER]

4 hours ago, N4L said:

Firing Kyle 2 years into a 6 year contract would be a massive mistake that would set us back another 5+ years. 

Do these people honestly think that Jed York will go out and find someone better? I mean seriously, this is the guy that dumped harbaugh for Jim tomsula. 

What coach in their right mind would want to come here and be the 5th coach in 6 years??

The fact remains that this roster was basically an expansion team before Kyle and Lynch got here. 

Kyle is a young coach and is still learning. Give it time. People who want a top 5 play caller in the NFL to stop calling plays are also nuts. 

He needs some shakeup on his staff, there is no doubt. Saleh hasn't been as bad as he was. The defense played ok yesterday. If you think the turnovers are wearing all of us out, how do you think the defense feels?

Something has to be done, but firing Kyle would be a massive mistake and make me believe that Jed York is an incompetent, small minded human 

No one(at least not me) is saying Shanny should be fired. But how this team is coached and how they prepare each week should definitely be under scrintinity. Top 5 OC he is but it's his TEAM(offense included) that doesn't seem to do the little things to win games. Having a top 5 offense means very little if your 1-6. Offense is 1/3 of the team. If he wants to be measured by how his offense plays, he should have stuck to being just an OC. Hate to keep comparing him to McVay but he doesn't have a former HC and one of the best DC's running the other side of the ball for him so he can just worry about the offense. He has a first time DC so he has to devote as much of his time to shoring up that side of the ball as he does game-planning the offense every week. 

 

There was a national beat writer who wrote something about the team in TC that though talented, the team lacked discipline and focus. That sentiment was echoed by a local beat writer as well. If people outside of the organization can see it and we as fans are witnessing it every Sunday, than what more needs to be said? It's something Shanny HAS to rectify because obviously what he's done this far in his coaching tenure is not getting through to his players.

[N4L]

1 hour ago, 757-NINER said:

No one(at least not me) is saying Shanny should be fired. But how this team is coached and how they prepare each week should definitely be under scrintinity. Top 5 OC he is but it's his TEAM(offense included) that doesn't seem to do the little things to win games. Having a top 5 offense means very little if your 1-6. Offense is 1/3 of the team. If he wants to be measured by how his offense plays, he should have stuck to being just a OC. Hate to keep comparing him to McVay but he doesn't have a former HC and one of the best DC running the other side of the ball so he can just worry about the offense. He has a first time DC's so he has to devote as much of his time to shoring up that side of the ball as he does game-planning the offense every week. 

 

There was a national beat writer who wrote something about the team in TC that though talented, the team lacked discipline and focus. That sentiment was echoed by a local beat writer as well. If people of the outside of the organization can see it and we as fan are witnessing it every Sunday, than what more needs to be said? It's something Shanny has to rectify because obviously what he's done this far in his coaching tenure is not getting through to his players.

No argument from me. The team has been sloppy all season. Stupid penalties, turnovers, blown assignments etc. 

I compared Kyle's demeanor with Steve Kerr. Kerr has a little more of an edge, a little more fire. He's been around a lot longer than Kyle has and I think playing for a guy like popavich (who is known for really getting on his players for a lack of discipline and execution) has helped him develop his own style. 

I mean, look at Marsh's comments about NE in the offseason. He said that no one had fun in NE and that he was much much more happy in SF. In hindsight it was a stupid comment to make. 

We are a young team with a super young coaching staff.

At some point you have to think that Kyle is going to get ticked off. I'm hoping yesterday's game causes him to really lay into some people and become more of a hardarse for the rest of the season. 

[rudyZ]

The turnovers are an embarassment. It's just ridiculous. I don't know if there was a point where it was funny, but it's for sure not funny anymore. It's downright embarassing.

I'm not a fan of Saleh, but the defense hasn't been that bad, overall. It really isn't helped by the offense always giving the ball back to the other team, and by the complete absence of any type of edge pressure. The tackling is poor, sure. The young guys in the secondary are baaaad. But again, no pass rush... maybe as a DB, you can focus better and have greater confidence when you know you only have to stick to your guy for 4 seconds, instead of 7-8. When you know before the ball is even snapped that you're going to have to cover perfectly (it has to be perfect for Cassius Marsh to get to the QB), you have no chance. Sherman can do it, because he's been there, he knows what to do. But the others are in panic mode before the play even starts. 

The most positive thing we've seen this year is probably that it doesn't matter who's carrying the ball, our running game is strong. I wasn't too sure last year. But seeing Mostert look really good two weeks in a row makes me feel really confident for the future of this team. We'll be good, guys. We have to find ways to get receivers open (either by changing some plays, or by changing some players), and not turn the ball over, and we'll be good. And Kittle, my god... he's a stud.

Add an edge rusher who can get home to this team, and we're instantly improved by a lot. 

And please no more turnovers. It's just so sad to watch. Embarassing.