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2019 Draft - Edge Rushers


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18 minutes ago, HoboRocket said:

I can't get Josh Allen for the Rams, but I feel he's the best option. He played in the SEC, so it's not like he was getting scrub competition on a weekly basis. I heard buzz on him as a 1 last year, then he stayed and was crazy dominant this year. He carried his team. He has the coverage skills to he a true every-down stud OLB, too. I'm not sure if there's anything he can't do.

I'm not sure I'll even evaluate Allen because I expect it'll make me depressed that the Rams can't get him. I was watching Mike Edwards, and I saw a pass thrown 20 to 30 yards down the field get deflected by a LB (who made a nice break on the ball). I saw the number, and I immediately said to myself, "What the eff? Was that Josh effing Allen?" It was. What's my point here? He looked like he was an off-the-ball LB on that play, not an EDGE. I was blown away by how natural he looked in coverage and how smooth his movement skills are.

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2 hours ago, jrry32 said:

I'm not sure I'll even evaluate Allen because I expect it'll make me depressed that the Rams can't get him. I was watching Mike Edwards, and I saw a pass thrown 20 to 30 yards down the field get deflected by a LB (who made a nice break on the ball). I saw the number, and I immediately said to myself, "What the eff? Was that Josh effing Allen?" It was. What's my point here? He looked like he was an off-the-ball LB on that play, not an EDGE. I was blown away by how natural he looked in coverage and how smooth his movement skills are.

That's because he's asked to play more like an off-ball LB than an EDGE.

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1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

That's because he's asked to play more like an off-ball LB than an EDGE.

Because he CAN, though. Which is why I prefer him to Bosa. Better chess piece. But he's not like a Tavon Austin where he HAS to move around to be effective. He can play Mike or Will and be great. Or he can be one of the league's better ends in a 4-3. He can play EDGE in the 3-4. Or he can move around and be used to confuse the offense. He's an upgraded Haason Reddick with better length and coverage skills. Crazy good athlete, and I expect the number one prospect discussion to become way more clouded after Q and Allen's monstrous Combine performances.

Edited by HoboRocket
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On 2/9/2019 at 9:07 PM, CalhounLambeau said:

Christian Miller has always been one of my guys. Too bad he's been hurt so much. Had he been totally healthy he would have been a monster and probably playing in the NFL already.

Tip of the cap to you, Calhoun (and @goldfishwars). Miller wasn't high on my list of guys to watch, but after seeing your comment, I bumped him up to the top. He didn't disappoint. Really good all around football player. Has the bend to flatten around the corner. Has the burst to be a legitimate threat at that. Has a diverse set of pass rush moves. When he doesn't win the corner with speed, he uses a long arm/stab move to great effect. I've also seen him use jab steps, spin moves, clubs, and swats. He keeps the OT off balance with his diverse pass rush plans. Getting away from pass rushing, I was impressed by his consistency as an edge setter and technically sound play in run defense as a whole. Plus, he looked comfortable dropping into coverage where needed. The two weaknesses that stood out to me were him being a tick slow off the snap too often and his lack of counters if the OT thwarted his initial rush plan.

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On 2/8/2019 at 6:10 PM, Forge said:

I don't know that I would even trust him as the LEO in the 4-3 under. Still strikes me as small for that as well at 240 pounds. Though I suppose Irvin made it work some in the 240's,  though he was able to add weight and keep his skillset, which is something that worries me with Polite. 

Did he really?  Pretty sure Clemons and Avril were mostly working the LEO spot and Irvin was playing the WILL.  I mean, the Seahawks drafted Irvin in the 1st in 2012 and then went out into free agency the following offseason and brought Avril in on a fair chunk of change ($6.5M AAV in 2013).

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55 minutes ago, The LBC said:

Did he really?  Pretty sure Clemons and Avril were mostly working the LEO spot and Irvin was playing the WILL.  I mean, the Seahawks drafted Irvin in the 1st in 2012 and then went out into free agency the following offseason and brought Avril in on a fair chunk of change ($6.5M AAV in 2013).

Irvin was the Sam in the scheme for the most part I'm pretty sure, not the Will. But I thought he took snaps at leo too, though I could be wrong

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22 minutes ago, Forge said:

Irvin was the Sam in the scheme for the most part I'm pretty sure, not the Will. But I thought he took snaps at leo too, though I could be wrong

And see, I thought KJ Wright was the SAM.  I mean, I get that at some point the SAM and WILL were kind of interchangeable because the whole concept the particular scheme was built around was creating a sideline to sideline wall less than 5 yards off the LOS that was not to be penetrated under any circumstance.

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56 minutes ago, Forge said:

Irvin was the Sam in the scheme for the most part I'm pretty sure, not the Will. But I thought he took snaps at leo too, though I could be wrong

Unless my memory is really failing me, i seem to recall Irvin playing more LEO early, before eventually morphing into more of that hybrid 4-3 "sam"/3-4 "jack"/whatever you want to call it LBer role a bit later as they went toward some bigger, more traditional DEs and some different fronts in general.

In any case though, i think Irvin is more or less the archetype "tweener" DE/OLB in a 4-3 scheme.  And i think Polite probably falls right into that same basket if you're looking at him, even for a hybrid 4-3 like that.  You can still make it work if you've got a plan.  Plenty of teams have had guys like Irvin, or Barr, Beasley, even Von Miller at times who can be major impact players in that model.  But i think Polite appearing to play so much better after shedding weight is probably where 3-4 teams are just going to place a bigger premium on him and his skillset, compared to 4-3 teams that will have to be looking at how to fit a round peg in a square hole.

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3 hours ago, Tugboat said:

Unless my memory is really failing me, i seem to recall Irvin playing more LEO early, before eventually morphing into more of that hybrid 4-3 "sam"/3-4 "jack"/whatever you want to call it LBer role a bit later as they went toward some bigger, more traditional DEs and some different fronts in general.

In any case though, i think Irvin is more or less the archetype "tweener" DE/OLB in a 4-3 scheme.  And i think Polite probably falls right into that same basket if you're looking at him, even for a hybrid 4-3 like that.  You can still make it work if you've got a plan.  Plenty of teams have had guys like Irvin, or Barr, Beasley, even Von Miller at times who can be major impact players in that model.  But i think Polite appearing to play so much better after shedding weight is probably where 3-4 teams are just going to place a bigger premium on him and his skillset, compared to 4-3 teams that will have to be looking at how to fit a round peg in a square hole.

If by early, you mean as a rookie, then yes.  He and Chris Clemons were the guys rotating in and out of the LEO spot.  But then the following year the team went out and brought in Cliff Avril (who certainly wasn't playing the 4-Tech spot) and it was with Avril and Clemons rotating that spot (and Irvin switched to one of the linebacker spots) that the defense clicked to what most of us really knew it as (the one that went to the Super Bowl and shut down the Peyton Broncos in the Super Bowl en route to a championship).

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6 hours ago, The LBC said:

And see, I thought KJ Wright was the SAM.  I mean, I get that at some point the SAM and WILL were kind of interchangeable because the whole concept the particular scheme was built around was creating a sideline to sideline wall less than 5 yards off the LOS that was not to be penetrated under any circumstance.

I'd have to go back and watch, but my recollection is that Wright was the Sam and Malcolm Smith was the Will. However, Irvin would rotate in all over the place, including Sam. So I'm sure there were times when Irvin rotated in at Sam and Wright rotated over to the Will.

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22 hours ago, The LBC said:

If by early, you mean as a rookie, then yes.  He and Chris Clemons were the guys rotating in and out of the LEO spot.  But then the following year the team went out and brought in Cliff Avril (who certainly wasn't playing the 4-Tech spot) and it was with Avril and Clemons rotating that spot (and Irvin switched to one of the linebacker spots) that the defense clicked to what most of us really knew it as (the one that went to the Super Bowl and shut down the Peyton Broncos in the Super Bowl en route to a championship).

Pretty much when the Gus bus left and Quinn took over, right?  I couldn't remember off the top of my head if that was 1 year or 2 with Irvin before Gus left.  So i went with the vague, "early".  :/  I'd say the defense in Seattle was clicking pretty well under Gus Bradley too, considering the sort of fairly hot commodity he was as a HC Candidate at the time.  But it was run a bit differently.

 

As far as a draft prospect like Jachai Polite goes though, it's essentially irrelevant semantics.  It's the same skillset/role a 4-3 team would be looking at for him.  Whether it's the way Quinn has used Irvin and Beasley.  Or the way Gus used Irvin as more of a rotational LEO type pass rush specialist.  It's essentially the same 3-4 rush LBer shoehorned into a hybrid 4-3 role.

Which is where i think a guy like Polite is probably just holds greater "value" to more traditional 3-4 teams where his skillset at this lighter weight is a plug 'n play natural fit as an impact defender.  Even if there are plenty of 4-3 hybrid teams that could probably get good mileage out of what he's good at too.

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13 hours ago, Bullyball said:

What's everyone opinion on Jaylon Ferguson?

To me, he is a DE for either 4-3 or 3-4.  I would guess he is a 5 tech.  I do not think he is explosive enough to be a 9 tech.  He is more of the technician with his hands.  I think he will be a solid LDE in the NFL.  Does not have the lateral movement to be an OLB in a 3-4. 

 

He fits the mold for what the Steelers look for in a 3-4 DE.  i would compare him to Cameron Heyward but he is much lighter.

Edited by jebrick
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