ClutchDJ Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 19 hours ago, brownie man said: I just went back and watched Burns I feel like if put in the position I'm taking him over Sweat even at that weight he just is so much more fluid, more pass rush moves, and plays like a football player and not just an athlete. Yup. I think Burns is easily the 2nd best EDGE after Bosa in this class. I don’t have any problems with his game or frame. Can fit in a 4-3, 3-4, 4-2-5, w/e. Any scheme. Sweat is just a bit too stiff for me & his film was mostly clean up sacks while playing alongside a top 10(arguably 5) player in this class named Jeffery Simmons. Sweat is definitely gonna get overdrafted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchDJ Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 On 3/6/2019 at 9:34 AM, RaidersAreOne said: It seems like a lot of Raider fans are preferring Burns over Allen at this point, which blows my mind. I agree with them because Burns actually has a consistent rush-plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 hour ago, ClutchDJ said: Yup. I think Burns is easily the 2nd best EDGE after Bosa in this class. I don’t have any problems with his game or frame. Can fit in a 4-3, 3-4, 4-2-5, w/e. Any scheme. Sweat is just a bit too stiff for me & his film was mostly clean up sacks while playing alongside a top 10(arguably 5) player in this class named Jeffery Simmons. Sweat is definitely gonna get overdrafted. Sweat is a much more gifted player than Burns. If your team has a DL (or OLB) Coach worth a damn, Sweat has the ability to develop into one of the NFL's best all around pass rushers. 1 hour ago, ClutchDJ said: I agree with them because Burns actually has a consistent rush-plan. He also has some major limitations. He has nowhere near the upside that Allen and Sweat do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucShot Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Sweat is a much more gifted player than Burns. If your team has a DL (or OLB) Coach worth a damn, Sweat has the ability to develop into one of the NFL's best all around pass rushers. He also has some major limitations. He has nowhere near the upside that Allen and Sweat do. I wouldn't say that. IN terms of pure upside, Burns could be pretty special in a Von Miller sort of way. Sweat is obviously pretty rare and has Clowney/Garrett type talent. Even though he's currently the best player of the 3 now, Allen probably has the least upside of the 3. But sometimes we focus too much on upside, and not enough on floor- and Allen is pretty much guaranteed to be an impactful player while Sweat and Burns still need to put it all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, BucShot said: I wouldn't say that. IN terms of pure upside, Burns could be pretty special in a Von Miller sort of way. Sweat is obviously pretty rare and has Clowney/Garrett type talent. Even though he's currently the best player of the 3 now, Allen probably has the least upside of the 3. But sometimes we focus too much on upside, and not enough on floor- and Allen is pretty much guaranteed to be an impactful player while Sweat and Burns still need to put it all together. Allen isn't the safe, low-floor prospect. He has a ton of upside. Big dude with incredible movement skills who has the frame to add a legitimate power game. I don't see Miller in Burns. As I said previously, Burns is a pillow puncher with no power element to his game. He's extremely athletic, moves beautifully, can run the arc, and bend the edge, but he's toast when OLs get their hands on him. Von has a powerful punch and surprising upper body strength. Burns is more similar to Leonard Floyd, Vic Beasley, or Bruce Irvin. Maybe he is able to add some strength and becomes a John Abraham-like player. But right now, he looks to me to be a guy who essentially has two attacks: 1) speed to the corner and 2) an inside counter off his speed to the corner. If he can't run around or by the OT, he's not winning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucShot Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Allen isn't the safe, low-floor prospect. He has a ton of upside. Big dude with incredible movement skills who has the frame to add a legitimate power game. I don't see Miller in Burns. As I said previously, Burns is a pillow puncher with no power element to his game. He's extremely athletic, moves beautifully, can run the arc, and bend the edge, but he's toast when OLs get their hands on him. Von has a powerful punch and surprising upper body strength. Burns is more similar to Leonard Floyd, Vic Beasley, or Bruce Irvin. Maybe he is able to add some strength and becomes a John Abraham-like player. But right now, he looks to me to be a guy who essentially has two attacks: 1) speed to the corner and 2) an inside counter off his speed to the corner. If he can't run around or by the OT, he's not winning. I think you are discounting Burns hand usage and technique which is the most advanced of the 3 despite being the youngest of the 3 as well- dude is still only 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, BucShot said: I think you are discounting Burns hand usage and technique which is the most advanced of the 3 despite being the youngest of the 3 as well- dude is still only 20. I'm discounting it because it's ineffective when it's not working off of a speed rush. He has no power element to his game. He has no violence to his game. He doesn't win when OTs get their hands on him. That's what bothers me. Sweat and Allen have it all. They have the potential to win by just about any means if they're developed properly. I don't see how Burns will develop a power game. EDIT: But maybe I watched the wrong games with Burns. As I said to others, if you can point me to a game you think proves my take wrong, I am happy to watch it. Edited March 8, 2019 by jrry32 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucShot Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Just now, jrry32 said: I'm discounting it because it's ineffective when it's not working off of a speed rush. He has no power element to his game. He has no violence to his game. He doesn't win when OTs get their hands on him. That's what bothers me. Sweat and Allen have it all. They have the potential to win by just about any means if they're developed properly. I don't see how Burns will develop a power game. Give him a year or two to add weight and get up to 260 like Sweat/Allen- both those guys were skinny as furk too not to long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 minute ago, BucShot said: Give him a year or two to add weight and get up to 260 like Sweat/Allen- both those guys were skinny as furk too not to long ago. Not everybody can get up to 260. He has to have the frame for that and the ability to keep the weight on. I don't see either one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucShot Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Just now, jrry32 said: Not everybody can get up to 260. He has to have the frame for that and the ability to keep the weight on. I don't see either one. Well I guess we can agree to disagree there, since I certainly see the frame to add size and strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDez Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchDJ Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 8 hours ago, jrry32 said: Sweat is a much more gifted player than Burns. If your team has a DL (or OLB) Coach worth a damn, Sweat has the ability to develop into one of the NFL's best all around pass rushers. He also has some major limitations. He has nowhere near the upside that Allen and Sweat do. I don’t see it. I guess the only thing Sweat does better than Burns is convert speed to power & even then it’s not like he’s great there or Burns is lacking in that area. He doesn’t have nowhere near the hip flexibility or counters Burns will throw at you. Whatever team takes Sweat over Burns will be making a big mistake, imo. His upside is miles above Sweat’s. Miles. Josh Allen might have a higher upside but I will be very hesitant on taking a guy who lacks good hand usage & counters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 So, will either/neither/both of Sweat and Burns have a better NFL career than Ferrell ? I'm guessing Ferrell has the better career (despite the fact I loved Burn's combine), but I would like any opinions on that. Ferrell isn't the athlete that both the others are, but he is smart, powerful, has tools, and comes with the intangibles. i love athletic guys, it gives them a better chance of a long NFL career, but it isn't everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchDJ Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 3 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said: So, will either/neither/both of Sweat and Burns have a better NFL career than Ferrell ? I'm guessing Ferrell has the better career (despite the fact I loved Burn's combine), but I would like any opinions on that. Ferrell isn't the athlete that both the others are, but he is smart, powerful, has tools, and comes with the intangibles. i love athletic guys, it gives them a better chance of a long NFL career, but it isn't everything. I’ll say Burns > Ferrell > Sweat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 6 hours ago, ClutchDJ said: I don’t see it. I guess the only thing Sweat does better than Burns is convert speed to power & even then it’s not like he’s great there or Burns is lacking in that area. He doesn’t have nowhere near the hip flexibility or counters Burns will throw at you. Whatever team takes Sweat over Burns will be making a big mistake, imo. His upside is miles above Sweat’s. Miles. Josh Allen might have a higher upside but I will be very hesitant on taking a guy who lacks good hand usage & counters. Burns has zero ability to convert speed to power. I don't know what you're seeing with Burns and Sweat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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